Saw domestic abuse - What should I have done?

[BountifulPantry]

Hi all,

I was in the garden centre car park earlier leisurely getting my shopping bags out the boot. There was a man in a car next to me waiting. His female partner came back from the garden centre with a shopping bag and went to stick them in the boot. All normal so far.

The man then shouted at the woman in a really aggressive way “where the fuck have you been? You’ve been 20 mins and I’ve just been waiting.” On and on and on yelling at her super loud.

He then drove his car forward so she couldn’t put stuff in the boot. And then moved forward again as she tried to get closer. And then again, all the while screaming at her.

I sort of stood by the boot of my car looking horrified. She must have seen me but didn’t make eye contact. It was too fast for me to react. I was like a rabbit in headlights.

I was walking around the garden centre thinking omg that poor poor woman. If he is that much of a horrible bully in public what is he doing at home? (Well we know exactly what, don’t we.)

I wondered if I should have said anything to her. Maybe if my bf was with me I would have been braver and said something. Maybe I should have got the car reg but it was too fast. But then on the other hand saying something might have made things worse for her… No cameras around and no reg so calling the police wouldn’t have achieved anything.

So what would you do if you saw this? And people previously or currently in abusive situations, what would you hoped a bystander to do?

I was that woman, once someone did try to help and I was so embarrassed I told them to go away and I was fine. It stil took me another four years to leave.

I have been in a similar situation (this happened several years after I escaped an abusive marriage). I was outside by the street when I saw a man (I recognised he'd recently moved into a house further down the street) get in his car and start moving off slowly (very narrow street). His wife/partner came out with a child in a buggy and approached the car but he started yelling at her (couldn't hear the words) and then, horrifically, tried to run her plus the buggy into the wall along the street with his car, before finally driving off without her. She turned with her buggy and began coming back down the street and as she drew near me looking upset I called out 'Are you OK?' to which she replied 'Keep your nose out!' and hastily carried on home, I presume.

I totally understood where she was coming from, I had many years previously been out on the street in the early hours escaping a drunk and abusive partner at home. I would walk the streets until I knew he'd be asleep. Whilst out a police car slowly passed. I could have flagged them down and told them, but I knew if I did and they intervened it would have made it worse for me. That's how she must have felt. I do hope she got away eventually, they moved not long after.

It's difficult, had you intervened no doubt you'd get a torrent of abuse, and maybe even from the woman. Sometimes these situations have to work themselves out.

Hi OP, Im from a horrendous background of DV as a child and went on to have numerous abusive relationships in teen years/ younger adulthood myself. You can’t really do anything. Years ago I saw a man attack his girlfriend in the street, ran over, dragged him off and she went to attack me. (I was in an area that is often mentioned on threads on here about the worst and strangest places in the country so I wasn’t shocked tbh) you can’t do anything to help women in these situations. It has to be the woman who decides enough is enough.
It’s quite a thing to witness seeing a woman get attacked verbally or physically, I imagine more so if your world hasn’t included DV/DA before. Im sorry you witnessed it. I hope the lady manages to leave him. But nothing you’d have done would have helped.

The advice that domestic violence organisations give to those who witness a stranger abusing their partner, does not match your opinion.

Don’t get up in the perpetrator’s face. This puts you at immediate risk, but it also heightens the risk for the victim. Remember, you will leave the situation, the victim will not and will have to deal with the consequences after you’ve gone.

https://impact.org.au/domestic-violence-what-to-do/

It's more important to support the victim than to express your fury to the perpetrator.

The problem with these proscriptives is their broadness. So everyone who sees a man bullying a woman can think, "I'll say and do nothing because I was told not to, and I can't talk to her on her own", so then they can go about their way, relieved not to have to do something uncomfortable and happily thinking they've done the right thing.

The vast majority of cases of abusive men don't hit their wife, they control them with fear and especially isolation. The women are captured in a little box where the abuser seems all powerful and his every threat is the Gospel eg I'll take the kids away, you'll never see them again, you'll be living on the street etc. Many women - a couple are on this thread - say that seeing someone tell off their abuser for the way he talked to her was a lightbulb moment for them. They are then inspired to go to a lawyer or call an abuse hotline, where they discover that the abuser's threats are hollow and that there's a way out.

Obviously everyone needs to make their own risk assessment but I generally say something when I see a man talking meanly to his wife in public. Because I'm not afraid of this bully, and I want to make it clear that his behavior is socially unacceptable. Where I live in France, people are quick to rebuke enmasse if they see a man bullying his wife or kids. They see it as their social obligation. In fact, I rarely have to do anything because there's already an older woman roundly telling the man off, everyone's clustering around glaring at him and making tutting noises, and someone's filming/calling the police/getting a security guard.

NOT acting just makes the abused woman feel even more socially isolated and seals her conviction that the abuser is omnipotent.

A few years ago, before my own experiences, I probably would have intervened - even to just ask her if she was okay and did she need any help.
But now, aggressive people tend to scare me so I probably would have done nothing, sadly.
A lot of us have probably been that woman and would a stranger intervening have helped? No. We cant leave until we know in our souls that the time is right for us.

Obviously everyone needs to make their own risk assessment but I generally say something when I see a man talking meanly to his wife in public. Because I'm not afraid of this bully, and I want to make it clear that his behavior is socially unacceptable

But you're making it about you @LouiseMadetheBestBroccoliPasta . Not the victim.

You don't have to do nothing. You do what you can, talk to the woman if you can, make it clear to the man that you're watching him. Video if you can, or phone the police. But if you make the man angry, just to satisfy your own urge to show your feelings, you put the woman at more risk.

I find it strange that you will go against the advice from those whose professional role and expertise lies in protecting women at risk of DV.

I have been in a situation where a friend with a mental health issue was screaming at me in the street. Someone passing by did just the right thing. He stood behind him, pointed at his phone and looked at me to guage if I wanted him to call the police or intervene. Without making it obvious, I was able to communicate that I was okay and not to intervene (I knew how to manage my friend when he was like this) and he nodded and moved away (but still watched until he saw that my friend was calm).

Had that man intervened and got in my friend's face, it would have made his mental state MUCH worse, and much harder for me. If I had been vulnerable to violence from the friend (fortunately that was not the case) it would have been dangerous for me.

In my opinion (and it seems that of the experts) that passer-by did exactly the right thing. He gave me options, and had I needed his intervention, it would have been available.

Some interesting comments in the thread.@LouiseMadetheBestBroccoliPasta i am with you though I would intervene.

Yes. Happened to my Dad. Trying to help and both of them went fof him.

I’m glad I asked as this has been an interesting discussion.

I agree with taking down the no. plate and making a report at the local Police about derogatory, abusive shouting and deliberate, dangerous driving.

I witnessed a neighbours physically assaulting his girlfriend when I was out in the garden. I phoned the police to report and they found out it was me which led to me being verbally abused by both of them for over two years when I gave him a piece of my mind when they yet had another argument in the street and keys were thrown at my front door. They started to be extra nice to me and his girlfriend left him a few weeks later.

Agree, but conversely: If the man knows that you've witnessed something, then he has no knowledge of whether you're going to report this to the police and stand as a witness should any action occur in the future, particularly if you were filming it. Also, the women knows she can come and speak to you or get potential CCTV if it's available, depending on where it took place. It can help to speak out I think by making him aware that you know what's happening and stand in solidarity with her. She also has validation that someone else said (indirectly) that it's not acceptable. The worry is whether it will escalate out of public view.

Sigh. I’d want to intervene but in all honesty I’d be scared that he’d hurt me too. Even with my husband there… I’d be scared he’d hurt my husband who is quite slim.

It’s difficult because shame doesn’t seem to work on such men like it used to.