I'm being gas lit aren't I?

[wearyapple]

Am I being gas lite?

I think I know the answer….

Just over 4 and a half years ago my wife told me that she had been having an affair over a couple of months. She would see the AP pretty much every day and be in constant communication from the time she woke up in the morning until the minute she went to bed.

For the first few months she was in the fog. We worked hard at our relationship and thing started to get better in some ways and got worse in others. But the hurt never went away and to this date remains at the forefront of my mind. Fast forward to now and everything has changed.

I love her. Thats one thing i must stress. If I didn't I wouldn't be putting myself through this. I will do what ever it takes to fix this, but I feel I still haven’t had a reason why or how she could do this to me, to us or our family. I ask time after time for her to think hard why this happened and I get “she was stupid” and “she doesn’t know why or even how she could do it”!. She even says that she never wanted the affair and wish it had never happened. It just happened and she was stupid.

I have tried to explain that how can I trust and forgive if I don’t no what I’m forgiving. I stated that she was a cheat! How do I know it won’t happen again when the right person comes along? She just keeps saying she is not a cheat! Yes she was then, but she isn’t now! It feels like everything I say, she is brushing past like it didn’t matter. Like my feelings don’t matter and its history.

I feel stuck. To me her life hasn’t changed. She lost nothing and she didn’t have to face any consequences.

I wake every day with this constantly on my mind. I feel I wasn’t enough. It feels like she is getting dressed up, going to the gym and trying to better herself because she wants better. Just like she did at the beginning of her last affair.

I know people will say to leave or will say once a cheater always a cheater. That’s not the advice I’m looking for. Im looking for people that have been where I am now.

I feel like I have lost everything. My family, my wife, my self-esteem. My ability to trust! I constantly feel on edge. While she is out there loving attention, having fun and living a care free life, while telling me that it’s been 4 years and at some point I need to just get over it.

She does put in the effort. She does try and be affectionate and communicate through the day. Am I the one with the problem?

I don’t want to leave. I want fix what’s broken. But I just don’t know how.

OP I think you’re taking the replies as harsh when they’re not actually meant to be.
I think most people would try to work at a marriage post affair and try to keep the family together., it was my knee jerk response when my ex cheated (no children thankfully). But I quickly realised that I would never trust him again and would always be cross at him. He never gave me a proper reason either. They rarely do. But basically they fancied someone else, opportunity was there and they didn’t stop it. It’s natural to be incredibly hurt and to want answers, but to remain in this state for years is really unhealthy. You surely can’t go on like that forever? She’s clearly not going to divulge any information. You’re at the point where you need to decide “can I put this behind me, live with it and move on?” I think most of us can see the answer in what you have written, it just seems like it hasn’t hit you yet. It’s not like you haven’t tried or that you walked out without trying to save it. It just doesn’t sound particularly saveable. You might think you love each other, but you don’t seem like you like each other. Counselling may help you come to a conclusion. (ps this was meant kindly, not as an attack)

It’s conducted with end goal of changing the information someone has, to elicit a particular response, eg to prevent punishment, spare feelings etc. It’s not done to literally drive someone insane. Can you really not understand the difference?

In the case of the OP:

OP is being told something in order to change the narrative, to doubt their own perspective, to benefit the OPs partner, to change reality, if successful it starts to dismantle his autonomy, once OP doubts themselves, it will be easier to do it next time.

My statement stands, OPs partner is trying to gaslight, OP hasn't yet given in.

You don't need my agreement nor I yours, the above is my opinion based on the information to hand.

OP my apologies for my part in thie derailment of your thread.

If I ran every day for a year, people might call me a runner. But if I didn’t run a single day for the next four years, I think most people would agree that I’m no longer a runner. That’s how I see her saying, “I’m not a cheat.” In my opinion, it’s not gaslighting or even lying - she's making a statement about how she sees herself now, not denying what happened in the past. Am I missing something about where the dishonesty is?

As for why she did it, I think it's valid for someone to say they don’t fully understand why it happened. A lot of people get swept up in affairs and regret them almost immediately. If you want to stay together after something like this, forgiveness is essential. You have to move forward. If you can’t truly forgive and let go, then staying together might just lead to more pain for both of you. Yes, it was wrong that she cheated - but it’s also unfair to stay in the relationship and continually bring it up without ever moving on.

I agree with other posters that a couples therapist could help you move forward!

Which reality is OP’s wife trying to change? She says she was a cheat, but no longer cheats, so is no longer a cheat. Some would say that claim had merit. She also says she didn’t want to cheat. That, too, may very well be true; no one, including OP, can ever know for certain.

Yes indeed some would claim that has merit, that's their opinion, they are entitled to their opinion.

How can it be true though that she didn't want to cheat? She wasn't forced that would be another thing entirely, she didn't suddenly found herself in a situation she didn't want or she would have stopped it.

This is lack of willingness to take responsibility for her part in it. Should we believe anyone who says they had an affair but didn't mean it? Of course they meant it, everyone has willpower, not using it is because you want what you should resist to happen. There's no getting around that one.

my wife told me that she had been having an affair over a couple of months.

It's notable that she told you.

Why do you think she did?

We see posts here all the time from posters, men and women, who get swept up in affairs against their better judgement. Ultimately, OP’s wife has stopped cheating, and maintains she is no longer a cheat. She also claims she didn’t want to cheat, which is perhaps true. To claim that this is gaslighting is ridiculous, and frankly insulting to those who have experienced genuine gaslighting.

Don't you think he deserves some explanation? And some concern from his wife as to how he feels following her affair?

That's your opinion, you are entitled to hold it.

But you are never going to get the answers you want and even if you did I’m not sure it would help

so she tells you you are crap in bed and her lover was amazing - what are you going to do

she tells you you got boring - what are you going to do ?

she tells you her lover was good looking - what are you going to do

you have gone slightly mad with all of this and need separate counselling

Absolutely. I think he should repeatedly ask her why for the next twenty years. I'm sure the children love the atmosphere and she loves being constantly interrogated.

Gaslighting is what my husband tried with me when I voiced my concerns about him having an affair.

He told me I was 'making it up' & that I was 'getting dementia like your mother had'. 🙄

My mum had died literally 2 mths before he decided to open up our relationship without telling me.

That's gaslighting.

OP, I’m sorry for what has happened to you. It’s utterly shit and unfair. My marriage ended by being cheated on and it was utterly devastating.

I think you are at an inflection point, and need to make a decision facing some cold, hard truths. I can understand you wanting more clarity from your wife, but realistically, what could she possibly say that would satisfy you? There is no magical answer she could give that would make you feel ok or secure about the future… the reality is that she made a stupid selfish choice that ruined your marriage, despite the marriage being basically happy. That’s who she is. Full stop. After four years, she has failed to do any kind of transformative growth that would allow you to believe that she would never do this again. You have been trying to get satisfying answers and signs of this transformation for four years. And she hasn’t given it. So the only rational conclusion is to accept you will never get this resolution.

I think it is possible your wife is not lying consciously- she just hasn’t done the deep work and doesn’t have the courage to look at herself. She actually doesn’t know. And there are many layers to truths and different truths can be contradictory. Cheaters often split their consciousness in order to do the unthinkable. It can be true (atleast in parts of them) that they did want to have an affair, while other parts didn’t want to. They believe they are good people, yet do bad things etc…. So I don’t think she is necessarily consciously lying. She may simply have continued to think about it in semi denial…. Meaning she remains quite capable of cheating again some time.

OR, she DOES know the truth and she reckons it is more terrible for your marriage if she says it out loud than staying in this awful limbo. Maybe she was utterly in love with him and was willing to think of leaving, but still thinks it’s better if she minimises that….. Or maybe she just had overwhelming chemistry with him and was simply confident you’d never find out, and lacking the morals to care- but thinks it’s better to claim she is now a different person (since nobody wants to be married to a selfish person!). Or maybe she actually doesn’t think cheating is that big a deal and would prefer to be in an open marriage if you weren’t so traditional - but knows you would never agree to that, or trust her again if you knew that’s what she wanted and believed in. Who knows.

But whether it’s a conscious decision on her part or not, to deny you more clarity, if you have been asking for truths for four years and not getting them, I doubt you are going to. You have already made it crystal clear her lack of answers hurt you and your relationship and this has not persuaded her to provide anything that satisfies you. So I think you need to take power back and make your own decisions.

That will mean looking clear eyed at what you know to be true about your wife and your relationship. I actually believe you already have all the information you need for this. Then you need to decide what YOU want to do, rather than wait for anything else from your wife. This could be leaving outright. Or giving an ultimatum (eg go to therapy/give you deeper answers by this time next month, or you will leave). Or accepting you are going to stay in this marriage but take it less seriously and revenge cheat (not recommending, but a choice you have). Or research the psychology of cheating and build your own explanation that you can believe in and helps you accept that you are staying. Or go to therapy yourself to try to get to a more empowered place, looking after your own needs, and give yourself a deadline to feel better/more accepting before revisiting the stay/leave decision. etc.

four years is long enough to try the same thing and be frustrated.

I hope this is useful. It is intended to be helpful.

He told me I was 'making it up' & that I was 'getting dementia like your mother had'.

Oh fuck, I'd end up killing him and doing time.

Evil bastard.

Please use full stops 😖

No. Not after more than four and a half years. The time for explanations was when they were deciding whether to stay together. The OP says the wife put in the work but clearly he isn't prepared to do the same.
There is a real sense that underneath that self pitying novel, he's just pissed off that she didn't suffer enough though I can't imagine that she isn't suffering by constantly being harassed for the last 4 and a half years.
There seems to be one long justification for his own actions which are surely more harmful than a 2 month affair nearly 5 years ago.
Of course it's ok to want answers when it happens. Of course it's ok to feel hurt and betrayed. It's not OK to choose to stay in the relationship then use it as a stick to beat the person with for as long as they take it before they crack. If and when the wife leaves, the OP will no doubt be the victim and feel justified in his continuing vilification of his wife and his role as the 'wronged'. This feels not quite right to me and it's giving off abusive vibes

If ever there was a case of calling time on the relationship for the sake of all concerned, especially if their are children involved, then this is it. I can't imagine how damaging this must be for them.
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I feel like I have lost everything. My family, my wife, my self-esteem. My ability to trust!

I say this with kindness but I think this is the only gaslighting in your post. You aren’t fully accepting the reality of what happened. You have lost the wife you thought you had- she is not the person you thought she was. You have lost your self esteem and ability to trust. Those are facts.

Marriage counselling only works if both people want to fully engage, and your wife seems to want to do as little as possible to make the problem go away rather than resolve it.

For me, if someone says they don’t know why they did something they are telling me it could easily happen again. If they don’t know why it happened how would they know how to stop happening again. But it’s a lie really isn’t it. How can anyone not know how they found themselves in bed with someone?

Unless she has a major character overhaul, I think this is what your life will be.

Or maybe you will gradually see the situation for what it is, the person she actually is. Counselling for yourself might help speed the process up. The love you feel for her might change and you might reconsider whether continuing the relationship is worth the damage it is doing to your wellbeing.

I don’t think anyone can trust in the same way again after such a betrayal but most people do reclaim their self esteem because no one is forced to cheat

This happened to one of my good friends. His wife had an affair, and he forgave her. He told me that she wouldn’t tell him why, but honestly I don’t think she told him why because deep down he knew why. He had become boring, the relationship has stagnated, they argued a lot, he let himself go in terms of his appearance (no longer shaving, having his hair cut) and she just thought ‘Is this what the rest of my life looks like?’. Her affair was long, and she realised the grass wasn’t greener eventually, that her husband, whilst boring, was safe and kind to her. He never discussed it with her in any length, but he accepted what his place was, that she picked to stay with him when she had sampled something elsewhere. However, his sadness over the deceit and feeling inferior now stays with him, he carries it, because he loves her, and doesn’t want to be without her. Will she cheat again? Probably, for the same reasons she did the first time, her husband isn’t ‘enough’ in her eyes. Will he forgive her? Probably. You need to decide whether you are willing to be a safety net for your wife and live with her deceit, or whether your sadness is too much and you should leave. Because fundamentally, those are your two choices.

@StrawberryDream24

Yep evil.

That was one of many disgusting things he did.