Struggling with female friendships

[connectingthedots]

After moving up to Edinburgh from Manchester 9 years ago, I've built up 2 main friendship groups - all female.

I like to think of myself as someone who brings people together and tries to be inclusive. I do socialise in smaller groups too and I understand that there are times when you want to see a friend one on one.

The following has become quite common in both of my friendship groups and I was wondering if others could relate or if I am being overly sensitive. I've personally found the behaviour unthoughtful and at times rude.

I've included 3 examples below.

A clique has formed within one of the groups and they now regularly socialise together (including holidays abroad) without including others. I have continued to sporadically arrange meet ups but with varying success and the group chat has died a death. I assume this is because there is another chat for a smaller group of them.

I messaged X and asked if they want to meet for a coffee. They replied to say they are already meeting Y (from the same friendship group) so they can't make it. They told me to enjoy my day and didn't extend an invite.

Someone suggested getting together for Burns Night - a few people were vague in their response. I responded positively (and even followed up with the person directly to make a plan) but as there was little interest they came back to say they had made a plan with another group. Then it turns out that those who had been vague were actually doing something low key together. I was left with no plans.

These are just a few recent examples. When this happens it makes me want to retreat from the group and no longer invest my time in keeping these relationships going. I know I should speak out but I fear being dismissed as being seen as petty.

Please let me know if you can relate? How would you handle these situations?

I should also say I am in my mid 30s.

I'd just take a big step back and continue to widen your social circle.

They're either very unthoughtful people, or they see you as more of a casual 'mate' rather than a closer friend.

These people aren’t interested in a friendship with you, so move on and make some new friends.

It’s obviously somewhere between annoying and very upsetting when this happens but what it sounds like to me is it was a broad acquaintanceship group originally, and some smaller friendship groups have formed from that. Is that right? In which case case it’s just life, they aren’t being unreasonable or mean, life is busy and time limited and they want to hang out with people that they are really friends with.

It doesn’t mean anyone doesn’t like you, but you haven’t formed a strong connection with anyone.

I know I’ve been blunt here but it’s better to see it for what it is and go forwards.

I've never liked being part of large groups of friends. I tend to stick to one on one or small groups but even then dynamics can change.

I was on the outside of a large group and they did everything together. The last time I went out with them they were in a pub and had grouped their chairs in a semi circle around a couple of members and they all sat there while those in the centre talked. I left.

Friendships change and the dynamic in group friendships change so if you're going to be part of these groups then you need to accept that.

It doesn't sound like these people are particularly good friends. I couldn't be bothered expending the energy chasing after them.

I like to think of myself as someone who brings people together

This sounds like you’re trying hard to be the linchpin of each group. It makes you sound a bit superior, I’m sure that’s not your intention.

Do you actually like or feel any mutual genuine connection with any of these people, or is your focus on having a social life and it doesn’t really matter who with?

Thanks for sharing your views and I agree that the smaller friendship group has formed naturally over time. I think because I continue to try and organise things for the wider group - I find it hard to be excluded from activities they organise as a smaller group (although I am not the only one who is 'left out' and I'm sure they are not deliberately trying to make me feel excluded).

I have felt this way for a while and I've taken a step back from the group but I'm at the point where I can't decide if I should fully disconnect as it's starting to really bother me.

Selfishly I do prefer socialising in groups - I like the dynamic of a group and how people bounce off each other. I have been friends with these women for several years and I do care about them as individuals. But as you say maybe the depth of the friendship is not there and I'm expecting too much.

If someone invited me for a coffee and I was meeting another friend that they knew - I would extend the invite and include them. I'm not sure if that makes me superior - its just what I would do.

I’d see this as a learning experience (if a painful one) to hone in on what you really value in relationships, and shift your attention to those who give you what you need. e.g. you value being included, so say no to investing time in people who don’t include you until you find people who do include you.

If someone invited me for a coffee and I was meeting another friend that they knew - I would extend the invite and include them. I'm not sure if that makes me superior - its just what I would do.

I wouldn't if we were meeting to discuss something personal and I didn't want someone else to know. It's a bit bull in a china shop to just invite random people along to arranged meetings.

When you study mindfulness, one of the exercises is your feelings if someone you know doesn't wave back.

It's common to feel hurt because you think it's personal but you have no idea until you ask, what their reason was.

I don’t think your experience is unusual or a personal slight on you. This seems to be the pattern with larger groups of people, often when they develop from a hobby or activity. I agree that maybe focusing on meeting someone from the group on an individual basis might be more satisfying. I can relate to your pub experience and would have left, as well. In my case it involved a long time friend who ditched me for ‘the group’.

OP - you sound great, I wonder if you're assuming everyone else sees socialising the same way you do....quite egalitarian and emotionally mature and inclusive.

Maybe drop the rope in terms of trying to develop a friendship circle that "looks" a certain way and step back a bit.

There's often lots of unspoken undercurrents in all female groups which are impossible to read.

Your face doesn't fit (too posh, not posh enough, too international, too mainstream, too pretty, not pretty enough, not well connected enough) and then groupthink sets in and you're OUT.

Unfortunately people often tend to devalue others who are seen as "too nice" 🤷

Plus often people (especially other women) don't really prioritise 1-1 connections with solo women unless you're super well connected or high status (or they are needy or odd or want to date you).

I had quite a grim time socialising in my 20s and 30s. I probably was trying a bit too hard?

I felt a lot better when I prioritised my main life goals to focus on and just enjoyed people on an ad-hoc basis....just taking what comes.

Most people move on anyway so not much point overfunctioning building individual friendships, if things happen they happen.

At the moment I have a few social spaces I go to meet my intellectual and social needs.

Lot less drama than trying to manage new people 1-1. Mixture of men and women and I do lots of cool stuff and am not lonely.

(ironically, now I probably CAN go for coffees and dinners but actually I'm quite overbooked).

I don't regret anything but I did waste a lot of time trying to solve "friendship issues" when younger when I would have been better off detaching and focussing on making £££££.

If someone invited me for a coffee and I was meeting another friend that they knew - I would extend the invite and include them. I'm not sure if that makes me superior - its just what I would do.

OK, OP.

Here are some possibilities to consider.

If you and are meeting A for coffee and you then invite B along because B invited you out and they also know A, A might be a bit pissed off or feel put out. Maybe they'd feel you should have run it by them first. Maybe B is someone they don't mind socialising with in a group but wouldn't choose to see on a more intimate basis. Maybe they don't even like B all that much! Maybe they were just hoping to spend some time with you. Maybe they had something they wanted to talk about that they didn't want to.share with anyone else. Maybe inviting B makes A feel like their company wasn't enough for you.

Maybe the others don't feel that they have formed a close friendship with you because it's always about getting everyone involved and being inclusive and large group dynamics rather than developing more meaningful connections with a few people.

In a large group, it's inevitable that people will form closer friendships with some people and not so with others. In a large group it's unlikely that everyone will like each other equally, there will be personality clashes, people who just dont gel and someone who someone else really doesn't like all that much but tolerates for the greater good of the group.

It's not a problem in an intentional large group outing because people will naturally gravitate towards and spend more time with those they connect with better. But people don't always want every catch up, theatre trip, gig, meal, coffee, whatever to be open to everyone. They want to do those things with their actual friends and not the whole wider group of acquaintances.

So maybe some of them don't like the fact you want every outing to be inclusive of everyone. That would explain why there are several of these smaller meet ups happening and you're not included in any of them - maybe the others don't want every get together to have to include everyone or just 'more' people. They're adults and want to decide their own friends and spend their time with the people they choose to spend it with. It's unlikely that they dont like you and far more likely that they just don't want every event to become inclusive of everyone because you're invited.

A pp describes your approach as emotionally mature. I'd disagree with that. I think that, by now, you would have realised that not everyone gets along equally well, not everyone connects in the same way and, put simply, not everyone likes everyone even those who are part of the same larger social group.

I suspect that if your focus became more about establishing genuine connections and friendships and less about being inclusive, then you might find yourself being included in more of these arrangements.

If someone invited me for a coffee and I was meeting another friend that they knew - I would extend the invite and include them. I'm not sure if that makes me superior - its just what I would do.

@GreyCarpet response worded it much better than me. The mere act of inviting someone else along for coffee is not what I meant.

It's this idea, the way you think of yourself as "someone who brings people together" which comes off (to me) as sounding a bit superior.

People don't need or want your help in being "brought together', as you're witnessing for yourself now. It doesn't appear genuine or sincere, it's like you're more concerned with filling a quota for the number of people you've socialised with that week, than forming real genuine connections.

Thanks it's useful to have your perspective. When I first moved to Edinburgh I only knew a handful of people - I met other woman in a simular situation and I connected them together. I had good intentions as all these women were looking to widen their social circles too. Closer friendships have formed over the years but what I have identified is that a sub group has formed and myself (and a few others) are no longer included.

As I've said - I enjoy socialising in groups but I certainly don't have a quota I need to meet.

I'm afraid I agree with *HenDoNot, *OP.

I can see what you are trying to achieve but there is something a bit insincere about it.even though that's probably the last thing you intend it to be.

The others will know that not everyone likes each other equally in a larger group.

If you haven't personally found people that you don't like all that much, it's more likely to be that you just don't know any of them well enough rather than that they're all equally likeable

Closer friendships have formed over the years but what I have identified is that a sub group has formed and myself (and a few others) are no longer included.

But that's OK.

It's great that you were proactive enough to facilitate this socialising and meeting new people but not unusual that a few of them have moved away to form a smaller friendship group amd no longer to wish to socialise in the larger group.

It's also OK that you're not included in that group although I can see why it would sting a little!

Can you focus on the people you have personally formed closer friendships with and concentrate your energy on developing those friendships rather than still trying to keep everyone all together?

I mean, essentially, your plan worked!

The problem with being the facilitator for your friendship groups is that you can end up being taken for granted. Also being 'nice' isn't always respected. I'm very careful not to take on that role. You may be expecting reciprocation which isn't going to happen. A lot of people are happy to use your services but not return the favour.

You might be better looking for closer relationships with particular people you click with rather than helping everyone to 'get together'. Don't worry so much about leaving people out. People who want to be friends concentrate on those they have things in common with. They ignore the rest or treat them as acquaintances.