Estranged adult children

[Theestrangedone]

Hi all,

looking for a bit of moral support here. I recently made the choice to estrange myself from my mum parents and my sister and her husband as frankly I’m sick of their narcissistic behaviours.

I never had a great relationship with my mum and sister, my relationship with my dad has always been dictated to by my mum and if we ever fell out he was banished from speaking to me. I had times at home where I was sent to my room with a hard smack from my mum for things my sister had caused, my mum never listened to my version of events. Before my sister left to move out with her now husband, there would be a lot of times where my sister would stir between me and my mum and when my dad was at work they’d sit in the lounge together after sending my away and could be heard gossiping and bitching behind my back about me.

Gradually, as iv gotten older and I finally managed to move out with my current partner 7 years on that upset I felt has slowly turned to resentment. 7 years of being excluded, ostracised, excuses made for the choices to not involve me. Decisions and excuse to exclude my son, I’m 31 weeks pregnant with my second baby and after a really rough few days I finally cut contact with my Mum and Sister for good!
I’m sick of apologising for their wrong doings, I’m sick of being bullied into thinking things are my fault. I’m sick of being emotionally and mentally manipulated. Being excluded once again and having been given 3 poor excuses that were easily resolved with speaking to me iv had enough and decided ai deserved better. My children deserve better than to be trapped in this. The only person I’m going to miss and who will suffer not speaking to in all of this is my dad and my nephew when he’s old enough to work things out. There’s just so many things to say and explain what happened over the years but iv spent 32 years of my life believing I was wrong, believing it was my fault, believing that I’m a bad person.

As a mum myself I’m hurt that any parent can exclude one of their children without legitimate reasons like health issues, holidays etc. To just decide to not involve someone is just cruel. And I just hope that my children NEVER do this to each other or think I’m ever going to exclude them both from anything!

I guess my question is? How do you learn to adapt with this change? How do you begin to heal or recover?

You clearly don't understand how dysfunctional families work. Narcissists within families rely on the buy in of other members to complete the 'trap' set for their victim. All you need is 'one' controlling member, be it mother or Father or sibling and everyone else toes the line to keep the peace.

Yep. Psychologists call it a dysfunctional family "system" for a reason: because the parents (and/or GPs) are dysfunctional and they create a toxic system that keeps their wants prioritized at all times. The dependent kids are raised with this, and they are often set against each other so that the toxic parent(s) can maintain their power and control over them and the system.

These toxic family systems are microcosms of what happens in countries where despots gained complete power eg North Korea, Cambodia, Uganda, Nazi Germany... Whole populations become Stockholm syndrome victims in such abusive repressive regimes, individuals try to get forward under a repressive regime while becoming morally compromised, and they will (wittingly or unwittingly) help the system to control those ones who speak up: the latter are brutally demeaned, suppressed, exiled, or worse.

Toxic family systems operate on the same principles.

Op should be commended for breaking with her abusive family, since it spares her child from experiencing what she did growing up.

Balls to that.
I'm an estranged child. Didn't see my father for decades, and he's dead now. Violent drug using abusive monstrous human being.
Very little contact with my mother. She tried to play favourites with my children. I could have more contact I suppose, so that my youngest could be put in the position of finding out that she thinks he's a waste of space, but I'm not sure that's in his best interests.

It carries on through generations because the behaviours that caused the estrangement in the first place carry forward.

I agree. Adult children don't become estranged from their parents willy-nilly. It takes an awful lot for a child to decide they don't want to see their parent anymore, or want to reduce contact.

Estranged parents don't want to see this, because they're invested in not treating their children as independent autonomous beings.

If anyone wants to argue this point, I suggest they read Issendai's website first.
www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/index.html

The scapegoat can't be the one to change the family dynamic: the whole point of the scapegoat is that you are assigned all of the negative attributes. Whatever you do is wrong. Stay, leave, say something, say nothing, it will all be twisted and used as proof you are the wrong one.

If you are the scapegoat then walking away is the only sane choice, because that's how to deal with narcissists and their enablers!

No contact is nearly always the best with abusive parents. I’m not sure why people encourage “contact with boundaries” when you are already feeling the desperate need to get away from them. Boundaries are an energy-drainer to enforce and - unless you need to maintain contact for specific reasons - it’s often easier and healthier to cut contact altogether with abusive people.

The violence your mother inflicted on you as well as the emotional abuse is appalling - I wouldn’t want to expose my children to this so understand your (IMO) reasonable stance. I know it’s difficult (the hardest part will be the loss of your father - I missed mine though and although it was about eight years before I saw him again.

I hadn't spoken to my father for about 10 years, he was a hugely selfish individual. Very needy and exhausting to be around and treated my mother appallingly.
When he remarried the new wife and her family became his priority , their problems far more important to the point where his only grandchild was second best to his step-kids and step grandchildren.
I walked away and the peace was wonderful, although lots of people, including my own family, regularly trotted out the 'aw, but he's your dad' and seemed determined to make me feel guilty.
He was given the opportunity to still see and keep in contact with his grandchild and made a choice not to.

The old saying, you can choose your friends but you can't choose your family, is very apt, but that doesn't mean they get to make your life more complicated and draining with no consequences. I would quietly just stop all contact. No more phone calls or visits. If they want something from you tell them that doesn't work for you. Stop pouring yourself into people that don't care - life is too short.

Sorry everyone. I went a bit AWOL last night I needed a mental break.

Today’s just gone from bad to worse. Not in the sense of my son didn’t get me a lovely card and gift. But the fact my mum seem’s hell bent on destroying her last remaining connection to me through my dad.

My dad finally decided he was going to cut his own ties and blocked me, trying to justify why my mum shouldn’t invite me after agreeing days before I should have been asked. He called me a psychopath who just wants to be a benefit scrounger, said I need mental health assessment and to give my head a shake then proceeded to block me. He has absolutely blocked all chances for me to defend myself and has justified my mum and sisters choices to purposely exclude me. Reasons changed from my 2yr old being the issue to then me being completely unpredictable, to then plain old your penniless and on benefits so you can’t afford. (I aren’t on benefits at all, I work. I have zero intentions of claiming any benefits other than child benefit!)

The attacks on me have been completely deliberate and neither my mum or my dad want to hear my side. They don’t care iv been hurt but you know what that’s how they have ALWAYS been. My mum most especially. She’s a mean, cruel woman who had zero appreciation for how her words and actions affect other people. My confidence is as low as it is because my mum has always destroyed it!

iv gotten the answer I needed from them both, I guess I’m on my own and my children will always be second best just like I was.

I’m so sorry. At least your Dad has clarified his position in this, you don’t need to feel sorry for him anymore.

A word of warning- I don’t agree with PO that you are teaching estrangement to your DC.

You do need to model healthy disagreements and healthy negotiations though. It’s easy to fall into ‘our little family against the world’ and ‘we’ve got each other’s backs, we’ll never be divided’.

Healthy relationships allow people to call each other to account for poor behaviour. You don’t side with your badly behaved partner or son because they are yours, you need to point out that you love them but they made a mistake.

Again this is not uncommon for children of these dynamics to have a “good” parent and a “bad” parent but that is not typically the case. Even when there is a parent who is obviously the more dysfunctional there is almost certainly a parent enabling their behaviour because of their own dysfunction. Both of your parents failed you, they both partook in the dynamics. Your father had a responsibility to protect you growing up same as your mother and they both failed in that responsibility and they are distorting reality to make it out to be different but it isn’t.

Yes it’s called the “safer parent” but they are still part of the system letting you down. And the ones with the adult power to change it, something you don’t have as a child

OP, your father is your mother's enabler. The enabler parent is pretty much as bad as the narcissistic parent, maybe even worse in some ways.

You really need to look up "sick family dynamics". What you're going through is quite common and follows a well-worn predictable path. Those of us who have been raised in families like this know exactly what's happening with you and how it will go from here. Understanding sick family dynamics will help you not feel alone or crazy or unreasonable (you're not). I advise you to seek therapy to get through this.

To start you off, I put the terms "sick family dynamics" and "enabler" into the AI answer engine Perplexity and it gave a pretty good summary of it:

"Sick family dynamics involving a narcissistic parent and an enabling parent create a toxic environment that profoundly impacts the children and perpetuates dysfunction.

Narcissistic Parent
The narcissistic parent dominates the family, demanding attention, validation, and control. They often view their children as extensions of themselves, expecting them to fulfill unmet emotional needs or reflect their idealized self-image. Narcissistic parents can be overt (domineering and grandiose) or covert (manipulative and guilt-inducing). Both types cause emotional harm to their children by devaluing, blaming, or scapegoating them for perceived failures

Enabling Parent
The enabling parent plays a passive role, supporting or excusing the narcissist's abusive behavior to avoid conflict or maintain harmony. This parent may downplay abuse, defend the narcissist, and/or blame the children for family issues, especially when the child resists or confronts the narcissistic parent. The enabling parent's actions—or inaction—signal to the children that they will not be protected, leaving them feeling betrayed and isolated

Reasons for Enabling Behavior

• Does not want disturbance in their house because the narcissistic parent is angry at the child, enabler can feel angry at the child for creating trouble
• Emotional dependency on the narcissist.
• A desire to maintain the family’s facade of normalcy.
• Denial or inability to recognize the extent of abuse.

Impact on Children

• Children in such families often suffer from:
• Emotional neglect: Their needs are sidelined in favor of the narcissist’s demands.
• Identity struggles: They may develop low self-esteem, difficulty setting boundaries, and challenges trusting others.
• Mental health issues: Anxiety, depression, and trauma are common outcomes.
• Role conflicts: Children may be cast as scapegoats (blamed for problems) or golden children (pressured to uphold unrealistic expectations), fostering sibling resentment

Family Dynamics

• The interaction between roles creates a complex environment:The narcissist abuses and manipulates.
• The enabler reinforces the narcissist’s behavior.
• Children navigate conflicting roles, often feeling unsupported by either parent

Breaking free from these dynamics requires recognizing patterns, seeking therapy, and establishing boundaries to foster healthier relationships."

Thank you everyone again for replying.

I’m taking my step back. And I’m focusing on my pregnancy and my family. My door would ordinarily be open to see their grandchild but unless my partner goes with him and stays with him for a visit then I won’t be facilitating a visit on his own.

I got my answer and it wasn’t what I’d hoped so I guess egg on my face for trying to leave the door open to them :’(. I’d say I’ve lost out here, but you can’t loose out on what you never had. My children will ultimately loose out on a relationship in the end.

oh well. They made the choice. I aren’t apologising to two people both whom could have defended me more are a child. My mum made me believe I was wrong my entire life and my dad allowed it to happen.

but thank you all for the guidance and support xx

Dr Karyl McBride's book, "Will I ever be good enough? Healing the daughters of narcissistic mothers" is an excellent read.
I was the scapegoat in my family, my younger sister the golden child. This was the case throughout my childhood and into my early 50s when I finally went NC, not only with my DM but also my DS and a couple of aunts, all of whom had been complicit in the toxic mess that is my family. It's been 8 years and I'm happy and healthier for it. My only regret is that I didn't do it earlier. This type of abuse is passed on from one generation to another so you're protecting yourself and your children by severing contact. Good luck.

"unless my partner goes with him and stays with him for a visit then I won’t be facilitating a visit on his own.

If your parents are too toxic for you, they're too toxic for a vulnerable child.

And what generally happens in families like this is that the scapegoat's "original sin" (the SG hasn't sinned at all, but that's how families like this work) is passed onto his/her children. ie the scapegoat's children become the scapegoated grandchildren. It's really best for children not to be exposed to this. They will see the favoritism compared to their cousins and take it personally, seeing it as them not being good enough. And they will see the disdain towards their parent by their GPs, which is very confusing and scary for a child.

"I got my answer and it wasn’t what I’d hoped so I guess egg on my face for trying to leave the door open to them :’("

Don't feel bad for trying. Trying trying trying is part of this journey. Just know that ultimately this journey - which you did not choose to follow but had to - will lead you to peace.

"I’d say I’ve lost out here, but you can’t loose out on what you never had.

You will eventually have to grieve the parents you deserved but didn't get :'( That's also part of the journey.

"My children will ultimately loose out on a relationship in the end.
oh well. They made the choice.

They did. You've tried to make things better, they're not listening because they don't want to.

"I aren’t apologising to two people both whom could have defended me more are a child. My mum made me believe I was wrong my entire life and my dad allowed it to happen."

Yes, that's exactly right. I'm sorry. You will likely feel a lot of pain about this in the next months and years. Therapy will help you get through it more quickly. This really is a very common pattern in families, therapists know it well.

Gosh sorry everyone I’m terrible at using this site! I keep logging off and forgetting.

It’s been a turbulent week. Had a small bleed earlier this week followed by some horrific pains, spent 2 mornings in maternity assessment and my mum decided I was wrong to not tell her. How could I when her and my dad had blocked me? And why should my partner tell them anything.

My mums recently been messaging me trying to be ‘nice’ but I just don’t trust her. I trust her as much as she trusts me. We have such an awful relationship because she’s neglected to listen to me and told me to go away all my life, I just don’t trust her.

Having been speaking to a talking therapist, it’s been resourceful so far. Firstly to get it off my chest! And secondly to just address the mental health issues it’s left me with. Iv had years of being psychoanalysed by other members of the family, trying to get me diagnosed with bipolar disorder. My gp’s won’t entertain it at all as I’m not even close to symptomatic. They immediately recognised a distinct lack of interaction between me and my mum and iv lived with parent who simply didn’t want to know. So it’s been very explainable as to how I am x

Sounds like you were the "identified patient"

"The identified patient (IP) is a clinical term often used in family therapy to describe a member of a dysfunctional or abusive family who is scapegoated or blamed for the family's problems. This individual often serves as a "symptom bearer," expressing the unresolved conflicts and dysfunctions of the entire family system".

And actually, sometimes the identified patient is simply resisting the ludicrous and unfair dynamics of the family and/or being labelled as problematic.

It's good you're getting therapy, OP. You sound strong

It’s not possible to have a relationship with someone this disordered of thinking. Women like your mother cannot do relationships at all but always need a willing enabler to help them, this being your dad and yet again he’s played the usual roles of secondary abuser as well as weak bystander and a want of a quiet life. He has failed you abjectly by not protecting you from the excesses of his wife’s behaviour. He has sacrificed you on her altar, he chose her over you.

Do read the books recommended and have a look too at Dr Ramani on YouTube.

Block your mother’s messages to your phone.

@LouiseMadetheBestBroccoliPasta Your posts are very insightful and exactly what I've always thought in these situations.

That’s really interesting. As the scapegoat in my family, I would like to know more about this.

I'm curious to know what happens when the scapegoat isn't the one distancing themself but the abusers have ostracised the scapegoat until the scapegoat stops trying to be part of the family and accepts that they are unwanted. It seems to be assumed from that website 'ISSENDAI', that its the adult child breaking ties with the DM.

I think Issendai is largely dealing with that subset of cases where the adult child has distanced him/herself from the parent and the parent is completely "baffled and hurt", "has no idea why", "it was when I said something completely innocuous and then she suddenly cut me out" (see the Missing Missing Reasons post in Issendai).

This scenario covers many scapegoat cases but there are other cases where the parent expresses outright hostility or open contempt to the SG and the SG has no option but to withdraw from the parents for mental self-preservation.

In these cases, the narrative of the parent to other family members /friends /neighbors etc will center on what a terrible person the SG is and how the parent "tried and tried and was a fantastic parent but my kid is a rotten egg".

These cases are also terrible painful for the SG but maybe not as confusing as the "clueless" guilt-tripping victim-parent cases.

Add, ‘no one else has problems with me’ , ‘you’ve always been difficult’ . ‘Everyone finds you so negative’.