Can I get through another 5 years like this, and do I want to?

[Anycrispsleft]

I feel as if I've really come to the end of the road in my marriage, it's not any big thing, it's more just the slow drip of rubbish stuff that has just totally exhausted my patience and my goodwill. I've been unhappy about it for many years and every now and again I go through another round of trying to talk to him and get nowhere, followed by a round of considering my options, and staying because I think on balance it's better for the kids for me to stay than go - and then I carry on, feeling slightly more crap, until the next time there is a crisis. But slowly I'm starting to feel really anxious now rather than just low level pissed off and I wonder how much longer I can keep this up for.
My husband's not a bad man, just IMO a bit lazy, a bit emotionally unavailable, and quite arrogant. I'm happy to provide details if people want to know, but I'll try not to make this an essay, at least to begin with.
If I had to say one thing that bothers me is that he is just rude, grumpy and offhand most of the time when I speak to him. So he comes in from work and just starts ranting about politics or his workmates. He'll stand there and do that for like the whole time it takes me to make dinner without offering to do anything to help. If I ask him to help he then acts insulted, like I'm not showing enough concern for his (totally normal and not worse than what I have) stressful day. I do the lions share of the housework and kid stuff but he does the house admin and if he's on the computer and I ask him anything - I mean, particularly if I ask when he'll be finished, but really any interruption annoys him - then he will respond very coldly. As I say I do most of the housework and it's very difficult to get him to do anything - once in a while I'll ask him for some help with something and he will be in the mood to be helpful, or if he gets in the habit of doing something he will keep doing it usually without complaining, but if there is a new request on his time, forget it - I pick up all the ad hoc stuff, including when the kids are ill. He never seems to fully believe me that they are ill and moans about having to take time off to look after them and then is (apparently) surprised when I take time off to look after them (lucky for me I have an extremely flexible job, but he does too). Once DD2 had an accident when we were out cycling and I probably saved her life and both of us had ill effects as a result and all he did was shout at us about what had happened to her bike. It's the same when I'm ill, he will do absolutely nothing for me and seems annoyed that I'm ill, he wouldn't e.g. go to the shops to buy me a couple of bottles of powerade when I had the flu and couldn't eat, I learned my lesson and now get a supermarket home delivery when I'm ill, he looks surprised when that turns up as well.

I've brought this stuff up with him in about every way I can think of and it always results in the same thing - a big argument, he has a go at the girls for making too much mess/asking too much of me and then he does some performative cleaning (think mopping all the floors in the house just as the kids are about to go into the living room to start studying) and then the next day he'll be slightly apologetic and then round we go again.

I know it is stupid to get yourself stuck in a marriage like this but here I am. Where I live 50/50 custody is the norm and I don't want to see my kids less than I do now, so until now I've said I can just ignore it until they are 18 (they're 13 now) and then I can go and get my own wee place, for me and the girls if they want to come back from uni, he earns a lot more than me but I earn enough to look after the three of us, that's not a problem. But I'm just recently really struggling with it and I don't know if I can go the remaining 5 years.
I don't know what I want from this thread really, just maybe to hear other people's experiences if they've been through similar?

At 13 years old, your DC should be able to decide for themselves what contact time they would have with each parent, so don't let the idea of 50/50 stop you from investigating your next steps. Ultimately, the only way you will feel better is by making the move. Short term, it will be difficult, but it will save your mental health. And in my experience, you look back and can't believe how much you put up with. Good luck.

I stayed too long. It made it all worse when it did finish. Do you think he’s happy?

He is training you with his moods not to make any of your (perfectly reasonable) demands on his time.

If you did split do you think he would actually want 50:50? I can imagine that he would soon get tired of actually having to make a real effort with the dc.

I was in a fairly unhappy but (just) bearable relationship for a long time and actually split when the dc were at uni; this certainly made things easy in that we didn't have any childcare issues, but I really regret not dealing with stuff openly and honestly by ending things when I should have. It would have been a big upheaval but honestly better in the long run.

I would be very brave here and actually start firming up plans to separate from him now, and certainly not when they turn 18. Knowledge here is power.

Waiting till the kids go off to college or university and then divorcing (and some do remain at home to do this) just gives him further opportunity to treat you all like he does now i.e with utter contempt. It can also make the kids feel guilty that their parents sacrificed their own happiness for them.

What do you want to teach your kids about relationships and what are they learning here?. Stop showing your kids that this treatment of you is still acceptable to you on some level. You would not want them as adults to be in such a marriage and it's frankly not good enough for you either. Do you think that such a man would actually have them 50-50; unlikely because they would interfere with his job and social life. It may appear to be the norm where you live but you do not really know and besides which appearances can be deceptive.

Divorce is not failure OP - living in daily unhappiness is. Do not be afraid here to move on with your own life and take responsibility for your own happiness.

Mine are 15 and 16, and they spend 50/50% with me and dad. However for the last year or so, they spend so much time gymming, out with the lads and generally being teenagers, that we see them less and less. Between their social lives and studying, they fill their own time.

Don't let the custody division stop you from looking into your options. Your daughters will gradually become more independent over the next 5 years, prepare for the empty nest.

Prepare for a divorce as if you were leaving asap. Speak to solicitor, ducks in a row, legal and financials - just so you know all the details.

Then you can bide your time or not. I thought I could endure my awful marriage until I couldn’t. It imploded in one big outburst and I had nothing sorted or prepared - once the gloves came off I realised how much my husband disliked me and he had been hiding money and assets from me for years.

Do it now. You won't realise how much they are picking up on his bad attitude but trust me, it will be impacting them and defining what they think a relationship should be and what you should put up with. Growing up with my mum struggling in a similar way to you, I always wondered why she put up with it, assumed that was normal and fell into a similar pattern in my relationships.

Problem is you are demonstrating to your girls how they can expect to be treated in relationships. These are lessons that take a lifetime to undo and how this patriarchal abuse gets perpetuated through generations. For yours and their sakes leave this bellend to his own devices. If they don’t want to live with him 50% of the time at 13 they can’t be forced to. I’d make that clear to them as well.

OP - and I mean this nicely - your post is all about how you feel. How is this impacting your DDs? I know you'll do your best to shield them from the worst of it but they can't be unaware.

So firstly do they feel they have to walk on eggshells? Do they like being with him or do they avoid him as much as possible? If it's making them uncomfortable then you owe it to them to leave. You wouldn't finalise a divorce in much less than a year and by then they'd be 14 and (at least to some extent) be able to make their own decisions about how much they see him.

And secondly as PPs have pointed out, you're not exactly being a good role model to your DDs about being a strong independent woman who won't take being treated badly.

He uses his moods and reactions to control you. It's time you took control back for yourself and your DDs.

Thank you all for the responses and for being so kind. I'll try to answer all the excellent points and questions you all had:
as I understand it here it is normal for courts to order 50/50 residency but I can talk to a lawyer, there's a local guy who has been very helpful in the past (and where we are, everything is super local). I have been doing some reading this afternoon and it seems that while the law here is very equal, the interpretation tends to be more in favour of awarding more custody to the mother. Whether he would want the kids 50/50 or less, God I have no idea, I could see him saying he wanted 50/50 just to be thrawn but can't imagine he would actually enjoy it, although I can believe he would miss them if it was an eow sort of situation.
People asked do I think he is happy, and how is this affecting the kids? I'll take the easier one first. I don't know if he's happy. I would not be happy living like that, but he's always been moany and unreasonable l, even when I first met him. I used to think it was to do with our stressful lives and him wanting to get on (he was very ambitious, and has done well) but we're minted now and he's had his own way about every bloody decision since we met basically, and he seems as miserable now, so I guess this is just how he is. Maybe he'd be happier if we split up. I think I would definitely be as long as the kids were. When we were not long married we were loving apart for two years due to jobs and it was the happiest time of my life.
Are the kids affected by it? I don't know. It's hard to tell isn't it? They seem happy, and they chat to him and stuff, they joke with him, they don't seem to walk on eggshells (neither do I, I say what I think, it just never gets me anywhere), he will say to them "you shouldn't leave all thos mess" but they seem to be pretty happy to ignore him so as far as I can tell it's not having an effect on them in that way. Whether it will influence them to choose bad partners I don't know. I kind of feel like he's just averagely bad, like for our families anyway - my mum was bloody terrifying and made my dad's life a constant misery (and I am an ex stately homer, so hi @AttilaTheMeerkat and thank you for your advice then and now), my FIL is a wee rage junkie who talks mince the whole time and (when he thinks nobody's listening) talks to my MIL in a way you wouldn't use on a dog. I look round my colleagues and there's tons of bloody triathlon dads and miserable trailing spouses and see to be honest I don't think there is a single couple I know whose relationship I admire. I would certainly never, ever think about getting into another relationship, I am so fucking done.

I'll keep going. I really like that idea of getting informed now and being ready to move when I once can't take it any more. I'm not ready to go yet - I know what you're all saying about the effect on the kids, but I figured if I stayed he would just be one of those slightly grumpy dads who "loves you really" and you don't have to think about it much. Leaving will expose all the cracks in the relationship and I wonder if it will make them look at him and question whether he really cares. I feel like in a year or two they would be more robust to all of this.
I did have a thought, and it's a small thing, but I think I will take the kids away for the summer holidays alone. He already does this for a skiing holiday - I don't ski, so in characteristic "my way or the highway" fashion he takes them on his own. Then he moans about how I get to have a week of alone time at home (in a week when I'm working) so he should be over the moon if I give him the chance to do that? Right?? It would really be interesting to see what it would be like just me and the girls, and they would be a lot easier to organise a holiday for. My husband would say that that's because I let them decide everything. Well I'd rather pander to their whims than pander to his. I've had to stand up for their wants and needs against his so much that I come a distant third if at all. I'm so fed up with it.

So usually after an argument about chores or whatever, as I say he does this sort of performative housework for a few days and then stops that and then life continues as normal while he gets progressively more unpleasant again. And this time like instead of just resuming normal life I've just been sort of low energy- like not silent treatment or anything, not unfriendly - but just not listening to his work chat and going to bed when the kids go to bed. And he's still rushing to do housework (2 seconds behind me ) and asking how my day went and all of this stuff. And I just keep thinking, what a nice life it could have been if you'd ever learned to be like that in the periods when I'm being nice to you. How nice our lives would have been.
Once I went to therapy and I was describing this and the therapist was like "it's telling that if one of you is in a good mood, the other is in a bad mood" as if it was just like some random thing. It's not. I'm not always in a good mood but I'm a fucking adult so I usually try to be reasonably cheerful with other people in the day to day and if there is something up I would usually deal with it by making a funny story or (back in the day) by getting together with a friend who likes to moan about the same stuff... what I've never done is try to make every single shit my husband's problem like he does with me. And when I signal a change like this, he hasn't changed, he's just trying to behave better so we can get back to the comfortable (for him) status quote of him whining on about every single thing.

Good advice.

I'm really sorry to say this because it makes your life more difficult and you sound lovely OP, but I think you're massively underestimating the affect this is having on your DC. You're probably doing that because your own childhood was a lot worse than theirs, and that's very normal.
Your husband doesn't have to be horrible for this to affect them. It's enough for them to know, deep down inside, that you two are not suited and don't really get on and enjoy life together. These coming years are so important in terms of establishing their relationship models.

Also, it might be very difficult emotionally for them if you separate once they've left home.

I think the holiday with your daughters is a good idea. It will probably be an easy sell as giving him alone time to balance the ski holiday, plus it'll be nice for the 3 of you to decide together what you want to see and do and when you want to stop in a cafe , without Mr My Way Or The Highway.

When you say he does the house admin, you you me just books the window cleaner and whatnot? Or organises all the finances?

"my FIL is a wee rage junkie who talks mince the whole time"
Sorry I had to laugh, not funny for your MIL but this amusing description fits a few people I have met in life, I'll think of it next time I encounter one! Divorce bonus would be not ever having to see this yoke again.

One thing for the short term- my DH is fine in most ways, but is prone to doing the negativity dump that you describe when he comes home (for balance if he's had a great day he'll come home happy and tell be about interesting and nice things and people). But when he's ranting I let him run for a bit and sympathise, then stop him after a while. Sometimes I need to get a bit cross and remind him that his wife not the negativity toilet for all the shit of the day to be flushed into . He might stomp off in a huff but at least I can sort dinner in peace and also feel less doormatty when I don't have to just absorb all the pent up crapness that he hasn't bothered processing by himself.

@powershowerforanhour he does the finances but I have access to all of that, no worries on that score. It's just things like insurance and stuff, and he makes such a total song and dance about it, I could have it sorted in about 20 minutes, but aim buggered if I'm taking over yet another job. Last weekend when I was helping the kids study and he was "too busy" to make some lunch for them (so I had to stop and do it, which brings the studying to a halt)* he was... buying wine glasses. Why? Possibly because we'd been in the shops the day before and seen wine glasses, and I'd remembered that we only have a couple of decent ones left... but it was hardly urgent 😕

I would pay good money not to have to see my FIL any more! The two of them wind each other up to the point where they're shouting and banging the table. At which point I get up and get the kids to come with me. Last time my MIL was like "you shouldn't let it upset you so much that you feel you need to leave the table" like it's fine DMIL I'm not upset at all, I'm sat here with you and my girls in your lovely garden while the two idiots slug it out.