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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Family/mother issues

23 replies

KingKitty · 26/02/2025 17:52

My mother comes from a large family. One of her sisters used to visit and I like my aunt. She's a nice lady.

Over the past few years things between my aunt and my mother - I don't know what happened. I don't know how to explain this. I will my best. I need help to manage a situation please.

I remember an incident years ago, maybe around about 2019, where my aunt asked me to email one of her sisters who lives abroad because I was the only person where the other aunt shared her email to. I emailed my other aunt and then I mentioned it to my aunt. I mentioned it to my mother and my mother's reaction was one of anger. Nearly some sort of delusional outburst. I don't know what it was but she raged at me about contacting my other aunt and the fact that my local aunt asked me to do it and how dare I when it's her family and she's not told. But the thing is I was telling her. Her rant made no sense.

In 2020, my local aunt came to visit. My mother invited her in and they had a good afternoon of tea, snacks and chats.

When my aunt left to go home - my mother broke out in another anger about my aunt - 'who the F*ck does she think she is coming here in a PANDAMIC FLAUNTING her size 8 JEANS'.

The thing is my aunt wasn't flaunting anything and she's not a size 8 either. It was crazy.

There has been a few different incidents over the past few years where my mother made drama about my aunt and her family. There was a wedding in my aunt's family. My mother didn't want to go but she felt she had an obligation to go. My mother obsessed for months about an outfit and then she rsvp'd as attending but turned around and didn't go to the wedding. She sent me alone and got me to lie for her and tell her family that she was sick for the day. She wasn't sick. She refused to give a card and a gift because she wasn't going even though there was a place for her because she rsvp'd as attending.

Then there was a very close death in my aunt's family and my mother made more drama about that and again it wasn't directly to my aunt but I heard it all.

Then another time there was good news in my aunt's family about the birth of her first grandchild and it should have been a happy joyous occasion and one to wish well. Again my mother wasn't direct with her anger but it was all vented to me where she shouted abuse about my cousin - 'and the poor kid having him as a father....the F*cking little dickhead...who can't even talk'.

It was just the most vilest thing that I ever heard. I never knew my mother to have such drama.

My aunt used to do all the visiting. About 2 or 3 times a year and their afternoons together seemed to be good where it consisted if chats, tea, snacks. Under it all my mother had hate.

Eventually there has been other things happening and I think my mother might have dementia but it's not diagnosed because it's all behavioural, mood and anger issues and everyone wants to see a typical forgetfulness before they see a problem. Even GPs. Or they want to see a decline in daily living tasks before they see a problem. All the while there is a lot of disfunction happening in the back ground from my mother including some OCD and other anger outbursts and there is a lot of stuff happening.

My aunt isn't aware of what my observations and suspicions are. So far I don't want to talk to anyone in my mother's family although I could do with the help even a social visit/chat. A lot of my aunts and uncles now keep to themselves now.

Over the past few years their relationship has taken a nosedive further. The last time my aunt came to visit was in 2022 and nothings since then. There hasnt much communication between the two of them. My mother got some good news last year and she set about to notify all of her siblings except for my aunt. She left her out. My mother just seems to have some level of hate for my aunt even though she's a lovely lady.

Last year, there only communication has been done through my. There was nothing until later in the year when the two of them had birthdays close together. My mother thought about my aunt's birthday and my mother wanted me to text my aunt a happy birthday from the two of us. My aunt replied. Thanks. There was no other communication from her. Just that.

A few weeks later my aunt texted me for my mother's birthday asking me to tell her a happy birthday to her from her.

At that stage I am actually pissed off. Their only communication for the year was done through me. What was wrong with picking up the phone and calling each other? Or sending a birthday in the post. Just messages.

I was apprehensive telling my mother knowing what sort of a response I was going to get. It was likely going to be one of hate and anger about my aunt and her family. I don't know.

Then this gets more complicated. My partner works in my aunt's local and a few weeks ago my aunt informed my partner that her son and their partner is expecting another baby.

My partner told me. This was something I decided not to tell my mother because I would likely get a reaction of hate and her spitting abuse about it when it should be good news. I don't understand how she can't wish someone well and her reaction is hate.

This will likely become an issue in time if say for example my aunt was to ever decide to visit my mother again and my aunt chats and says things like -
'i sent a birthday greeting to Kitty, did you get it?' or I chatted to Kitty's partner, I can't believe he and Kitty never told you that I am due to be a granny again.

I think it could be unlikely my aunt could visit again because it's been 2 and half years and it's been nothing from her and their relationship is gone to nothing now.

How do you think I can manage this situation? I am getting caught up between the two of them.

On a different note - my mother has some issues and is wrongly think it could be dementia and I think it could be FTD which is rarer and harder to diagnosis. FTD is behaviour and mood dementia and memory isn't affected as such in the early stages. So that's why it's harder to diagnosis because everyone's idea of dementia is memory loss. My grandmother was crazy in her old age and had to go to a home and according to my mother she had dementia but it was mild because she never forgot. Those were my mother's words. This to me is a red flag towards FTD. Apparantly FTD can run in families and I would nearly put money on this but if course this isn't talked about in families. I wouldn't be surprised if more of her siblings have similar.

I know this is long and a lot to take in.

OP posts:
Bigwitsits · 26/02/2025 18:11

Just for a different perspective; Sometimes relatives can be all smiles on the surface, but not very nice in reality. I have a sibling who was horrible to me as a dc. As an adult I am regularly roped into family meetings ups. I go in good faith. She has a big smile on her face, is so nice to everyone else, but finds a sly way to be mean to me, snub me, sneer at me. She won’t allow me to join in any conversations. Then I feel angry that I agreed to it. I strongly suspect there is some history here you are unaware of. Why don’t you ask your dm why your aunt hm upsets her so much? I’m probably projecting but it’s something I’d ask before concluding it’s a health issue.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 26/02/2025 18:12

It could be that your mother had some form of untreated and untreatable personality disorder like narcissistic personality disorder. Hence the rages etc.

Your mother has always been like this towards her sister and she’s made her the scapegoat for her inherent ills. Whatever the root cause it’s not your fault she is the ways she is. You did not make her that way. And stop being the go between here.

Omgblueskys · 26/02/2025 19:25

Hay op, could you sit them both down separately of course and explain that your not sure why they have this relationship but you want a relationship with both of them so be it separately but also your not going to be ' the go between via text msg ' and you would appreciate any nasty comments kept to them selves, bingo, you should still have a relationship with both,

KingKitty · 26/02/2025 20:11

Thank you for the replies.

I think maybe the first one could be projecting. I haven't known my aunt to do anything bad or to be a bad person.

I think when I was younger my mother had a dislike towards her too because they had different lives.

My aunt worked and her marriage held up. My mother never worked and my mother's marriage was bad. My aunt was able to afford two homes (with her husband), my mother and I and my siblings grew up in poverty. My mother viewed my aunt as snobby. There really was no basis for that. I guess it was jealousy of circumstances and bitter about her own life. I don't know.

What I don't get is that on one hand my mother was spitting abuse about her sister many times and also about her family and then I found that she had a photograph of her and her sister on her bedroom wall as if my mother really cared for her. I don't know. It's so odd.

OP posts:
KingKitty · 26/02/2025 20:12

Omgblueskys · 26/02/2025 19:25

Hay op, could you sit them both down separately of course and explain that your not sure why they have this relationship but you want a relationship with both of them so be it separately but also your not going to be ' the go between via text msg ' and you would appreciate any nasty comments kept to them selves, bingo, you should still have a relationship with both,

I find as my mother has gotten older she's impossible to be reasoned with. If I sat her down and chatted to her like you say she likely wouldn't be able to cope with that without and outburst of crap.

OP posts:
KingKitty · 26/02/2025 20:21

Twice since December I withhead info from my aunt and about my aunt from my mother.

  1. birthday wishes but it was so short and cold from my aunt I really thought there really wasn't much in it.
  2. my aunt told me partner that she will be a granny again.

There will be an issue if my aunt ever decides to visit my mother again and my mother finds out that I withheld information.

I have no idea what the future will hold and what else if anything my aunt may or may not text me or tell my partner and if I am supposed to share this with my mother or not. Taking previous reactions from my mother I am inclined not to tell her anything. Why would I when she can't even wish someone luck and her response is usually one of hate?.

A problem will arise if my aunt visits and my mother finds out that she wasn't told anything.

OP posts:
Omgblueskys · 26/02/2025 20:26

KingKitty · 26/02/2025 20:11

Thank you for the replies.

I think maybe the first one could be projecting. I haven't known my aunt to do anything bad or to be a bad person.

I think when I was younger my mother had a dislike towards her too because they had different lives.

My aunt worked and her marriage held up. My mother never worked and my mother's marriage was bad. My aunt was able to afford two homes (with her husband), my mother and I and my siblings grew up in poverty. My mother viewed my aunt as snobby. There really was no basis for that. I guess it was jealousy of circumstances and bitter about her own life. I don't know.

What I don't get is that on one hand my mother was spitting abuse about her sister many times and also about her family and then I found that she had a photograph of her and her sister on her bedroom wall as if my mother really cared for her. I don't know. It's so odd.

Sounds like you mum is bitter, that said mum shouldn't stop you having a relationship with auntie, and your not asking her permission your just saying that's how it is, let her sulk for a bit, she has so much resentment for her sister , that's sad , and your stuck in the middle op

KingKitty · 27/02/2025 14:49

Omgblueskys · 26/02/2025 20:26

Sounds like you mum is bitter, that said mum shouldn't stop you having a relationship with auntie, and your not asking her permission your just saying that's how it is, let her sulk for a bit, she has so much resentment for her sister , that's sad , and your stuck in the middle op

My aunt has never done anything wrong and that's what it looks like to me - resentment from my mother to my aunt.

I think a problem may arise if my aunt was to ever visit again. It's been two and half years since she last visited and there's been very little communication between them. Last year there was two communications. One message each way through me. Nothing else. I don't know know if my aunt will come again and a problem may arise if she does and they chat and my mother discovers that I withheld information.

To date: I withheld a message that my aunt sent to me for my mother's birthday. I wanted to tell my mother but honestly there has been so much drama and hate from her, it really doesn't matter. One message isn't going to change her into thinking her sister is nice.

Then my aunt shared with my partner that she will be a granny again. I never said anything to my mother about this.

I don't know if my aunt will come and visit again and if my aunt will share any more news in the future with me.

I am highly apprehensive to tell my mother anything any more.

There was an incident before the Christmas where I found out a cousin of mine was ill. I told my mother and she just launched into a verbal attack at me about 'her nephew and why is she not being told'. It actually was some form of lunacy from her to be quite honest. My mother never cared enough about her nephew to attend his wedding or even meet with his mother when she wanted to meet but then she flew off the handle at me when I found out he was ill.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 27/02/2025 15:02

Your mother has never liked this woman and she has not changed in all the years since. Narcissism indeed may well be the reason for her rages (which you describe as some form of lunacy) toward you, those can be truly vile to be on the receiving end of.

StrongSweetCoffee · 27/02/2025 15:11

I think the only thing you can do is take yourself out of the middle of them - stop being the messenger between them. The pregnancy is just news, but I think you need to tell them both to stop sending each other birthday wishes etc via you because you are being put in an awkward position.

They are adults and need to manage their own relationship.

Their history will pre-date you so it’s hard to judge if there is something much deeper to all of this. Your mum also could be on the road to illness as you suggest. Whatever the reason, you can’t fix it.

Omgblueskys · 27/02/2025 17:14

StrongSweetCoffee · 27/02/2025 15:11

I think the only thing you can do is take yourself out of the middle of them - stop being the messenger between them. The pregnancy is just news, but I think you need to tell them both to stop sending each other birthday wishes etc via you because you are being put in an awkward position.

They are adults and need to manage their own relationship.

Their history will pre-date you so it’s hard to judge if there is something much deeper to all of this. Your mum also could be on the road to illness as you suggest. Whatever the reason, you can’t fix it.

The auntie is unaware of sisters resentment so difficult for op to have that conversation as would be outing her mum

TheCatterall · 27/02/2025 17:36

@KingKitty Sounds like your mother has always been bitter or had narcissistic tendencies but has masked and hidden them more in the past and is now just letting it all out.

is this like older behaviour but more full on or is your mother normally love and light with everyone?

does your mother have other friends and family in touch with her or have people seemed to disappear over the years?

2catsandhappy · 27/02/2025 18:04

Are they mother and daughter in real life? Raised as sisters?
What is the age gap?

FreeRider · 27/02/2025 19:18

AttilaTheMeerkat · 26/02/2025 18:12

It could be that your mother had some form of untreated and untreatable personality disorder like narcissistic personality disorder. Hence the rages etc.

Your mother has always been like this towards her sister and she’s made her the scapegoat for her inherent ills. Whatever the root cause it’s not your fault she is the ways she is. You did not make her that way. And stop being the go between here.

Have to agree with @AttilaTheMeerkat...and I'd take her advice.

My narc mother was always like this with her younger sister...even when the poor woman was dying slowly of cancer, my mother was being horrible and bitchy about her. All my life I was told I was 'lucky I didn't have sisters' (I have two brothers) ... I honestly can't see what my aunt ever did to my mother that was so wrong. My mother was very judgemental about my poor aunt having had a child out of wedlock at 19 and putting him up for adoption...she never had the slightest empathy for her.

Neither myself or my brothers could ever say a positive word about our aunt without my mother being absolutely raging and horrible about her. The poor woman has been dead nearly two years and I STILL have to listen to my mother being bitchy about her...because she didn't leave my mother anything in her will. You couldn't make it up.

KingKitty · 02/03/2025 10:01

2catsandhappy · 27/02/2025 18:04

Are they mother and daughter in real life? Raised as sisters?
What is the age gap?

No they are not. Very few years between them. There's about 2 years between them.

OP posts:
KingKitty · 02/03/2025 10:03

TheCatterall · 27/02/2025 17:36

@KingKitty Sounds like your mother has always been bitter or had narcissistic tendencies but has masked and hidden them more in the past and is now just letting it all out.

is this like older behaviour but more full on or is your mother normally love and light with everyone?

does your mother have other friends and family in touch with her or have people seemed to disappear over the years?

I think a lot of it is older behaviour. I think my mother was always domineering and had a nasty streak in her especailly towards me and never my brothers. She did mellow when I was in my 30s but now it's worse than ever before.

Other people has drifted away from her. She has no real friend groups.

OP posts:
KingKitty · 02/03/2025 10:09

I am just after finding out my aunt became a granny again. This should be great news and it is and I am so delighted for her.

I found out through my partner who works in her local pub/restaurant. She never even sent me a message. There was nothing to my mother either.

So this leaves me in a difficult situation.

I know if I tell my mother I will get an earful of abuse about her sister and her son. So why would I tell her.

If my aunt decides to visit again I will likely get more abuse if I know but don't tell my mother. So I am inclined to say nothing and pretend nothing and pretend I dont know the news.

OP posts:
KingKitty · 02/03/2025 10:09

I am sick of the second hand info.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 02/03/2025 10:16

You cannot put this down to elder behaviour (whatever that is ) either. It's her personality. All the authority figures she was afraid of have long since died off.

Your mother does this because she can and she has learnt this works for her. Are you really surprised that she has no friends or friendship groups, she has driven them all away by her actions. You really do seem to be the scapegoat here given that she treated your brothers differently.

Do not act further as some sort of go between here. Your partner here has unwittingly acted as a flying monkey. I would tell him not to pass on any more information re your aunt in future particularly as she did not bother to tell you directly.

Drop the rope that is being held out to you here.

KingKitty · 02/03/2025 13:36

AttilaTheMeerkat · 02/03/2025 10:16

You cannot put this down to elder behaviour (whatever that is ) either. It's her personality. All the authority figures she was afraid of have long since died off.

Your mother does this because she can and she has learnt this works for her. Are you really surprised that she has no friends or friendship groups, she has driven them all away by her actions. You really do seem to be the scapegoat here given that she treated your brothers differently.

Do not act further as some sort of go between here. Your partner here has unwittingly acted as a flying monkey. I would tell him not to pass on any more information re your aunt in future particularly as she did not bother to tell you directly.

Drop the rope that is being held out to you here.

Just on the third paragraph of my partner being a flying monkey:

I am pissed off at my aunt because of that. She has my number and my WhatsApp and Facebook and she couldn't be bothered telling me to me Inna message. She knows how to use messages.

I am not interested in telling my mother what my partner told me because I won't get any nice response to it.

Do you think it was intentional from my aunt to try and hurt my mother perhaps. Like my partner is worthy enough to commicate to him but she was never bothered to pick up the phone to my mother.

It seems as if they have some beef with each other to be honest.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 02/03/2025 13:42

I do not think your mother has particularly liked your aunt ever so understandably she
(aunt)has now backed away. Sadly that also looks like you are included in that.

Your aunt’s behaviour to your mother has been deliberate. I would not act as some go between.

TheCatterall · 02/03/2025 13:46

@KingKitty how often don’t contact your aunt. What effort do you make with her and her family?

she’s talking to your partner to try and have some kind of connection. It’s natural for her to talk to a family member she sees…

maybe if you communicated more with her and had some back and forth conversation she’d tell you directly.

kindly - I think your mother has done a number on you and it’s twisted how you see many interactions with others. Your aunt passing into your partner her little family updates isn’t weird.

KingKitty · 02/03/2025 14:32

TheCatterall · 02/03/2025 13:46

@KingKitty how often don’t contact your aunt. What effort do you make with her and her family?

she’s talking to your partner to try and have some kind of connection. It’s natural for her to talk to a family member she sees…

maybe if you communicated more with her and had some back and forth conversation she’d tell you directly.

kindly - I think your mother has done a number on you and it’s twisted how you see many interactions with others. Your aunt passing into your partner her little family updates isn’t weird.

I am having issues with my work. I work in care and every day and every week is different. Some long days and weeks are common and it can get so very intense. No one knows what can be like. I can remember having stayovers in work and days of 21 hours and it's so long and so so so very.

It's so hard to maintain anything outside of the ordinary. I don't have the energy to reach other to my aunt. I think maybe my aunt thinks it's easy for me to visit her and to maybe meet her in the pub my partner works in but it's not that easy. I was working all week and I am still in with this weekend and I am lucky if I see one or two days off a month. My job is doing so many bad things and against the law too. It's so hard. I hardly have time to be sick, to be tired, to do things for myself.

Due to my mother's responses, I have kinda shut down out of fear. I still don't know what position my aunt is in and I don't know if she will ever come and visit again. That will likely only just anger my mother. Say for example if my mother found out I am withholding stuff from her. But then if I told her she is likely going to be nasty about it.

If my mother found out that there's been any communication between me and my aunt - she will only just explode so I just pretend that I don't know anything.

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