A Hot Mess

[nathaliespace]

I am in a total mess of a situation and I would so love to hear if anyone else has navigated anything similar and how they came out the other end. It's a long one so please bear with me...

I've been with my husband for 17 years. We have a 3.5 year old son who is the light of our lives and we adore. Until 6 months ago, we were living in a shabby little 2 bed ex council flat in a fairly grotty neighbourhood in East London that we bough in 2017, and that our child was born in. During the pandemic we had the classic conversation about moving from London and that idea kind of grew.

Last January we decided to put our flat on the market but to move within London. We were struggling with trying to navigate where in the city to move to within our budget. I had handed my notice in for my salaried job that I hated in order to go freelance but had negotiated a 6 month notice period in order to use it for a mortgage. Somewhere along the way I started looking at properties in Newcastle (where I'm from and my parents still are). I sent my mum to a viewing on a property and we rashly put an offer in on house we hadn't seen and got it. Then we made a trip to see it and hated it so pulled out but kept looking in earnest in the neighbourhood until we found somewhere we liked and got an offer accepted. This was May last year. In March last year, we were not having much interest on our flat so we offered it to the council who offered a good price and we agreed a sale - to complete in August. We decided to move into a rental in Newcastle while the sale on the house we'd been accepted on went through.

The big thing is that as soon as this all got real last May I had majorly cold feet about leaving London and started trying to talk to my husband about pulling out. This is where it got bad. He couldn't handle the idea and we were having CRAZY rows. I felt like I couldn't get him to talk seriously about it and I was getting majorly confused and increasingly anxious. I kept trying to bring it up and he wouldn't allow it, said I was just scared/overreacting/hormonal and we needed to go ahead. I felt bamboozled and my gut feeling was bad but I kept talking myself back round and we did it. The week before we moved I both left my job and discovered I was pregnant. The rows has been getting so bad that the week before that, that I'd been thinking about leaving my husband and trying to buy a flat on my own with our son. But he talked me round and we moved. It was HORRENDOUS. The night we arrived here I was up all night, felt like my stomach was tearing in two with grief and full on wrenching sobs. This feeling didn't stop/hasn't stopped and my husband's reaction was to fight with me about it. Apparently I was overreacting. I tried to talk to him about stopping the sale of the flat but he talked me round and that went through.

I didn't feel better and decided to abort the baby - with his blessing. That was awful. It happened at 9 weeks, 6 days. Terrible. Then the house we were buying here fell through (I was relieved). Then in October last year I saw a house on the market here that seemed nice and we went for that one. I was still in a state really and definitely not thinking straight but was desperately seeking some kind of stability. Half our stuff is in storage and we don't like the flat we're in. This whole time though, I've been vocal that I don't want to be here, I can't get over the circumstances of the move, I feel like my life got ruptured against my will and I just want to go home and back to what we had. For a while I was so upset that I blamed my husband for the abortion because I felt like if he had let us pause the move as I'd wanted then I would have been in a place to have the baby.

Anyway, fast forward to now - I still desperately want to go back to my old life and bitterly regret selling our flat. I've been unable to talk sensibly to my husband about it as he flips out every time and won't allow a calm discussion of options. I've decided now that I want to pull out of the house purchase here and I've been trying to talk to him about that for the last month and haven't been able to without massive rows again - he thinks I'm crazy, 'wrong', 'would definitely be making a terrible mistake'. It feels like a repeat of the rows last summer in the lead up to the move, and they were deeply traumatic. So we're here again. And it's made me really question our marriage as I'm starting to feel emotionally manipulated. I now think that we should trial separate. But I'm appalled at the idea that I might get marooned up in Newcastle - our child starts school in September, I am reliant on my husband now for a mortgage as I only went self employed in august, we sold out London flat so nowhere to go back to and will get priced out as sale proceeds are just sitting in the bank, he doesn't want to go back to London, and I don't think anyway that we could afford two London properties. Rent would be at least double what our mortgage was on the flat we sold.

I'm wondering if anyone has ever had a situation where a relocation has caused the breakdown of their marriage and how they a) got back to where thy were living before with child and co-parent in tow or b) made it work dealing with the breakdown of a marriage somewhere new with no friends? I would honestly give anything to wind the clock back and refuse to sell our flat. I could've afforded to buy him out. But obviously that isn't possible now. I feel so miserable and desperate and angry at myself for allowing this to happen.

And to add before it's suggested: we've been in couple's therapy since last July and I have 1:1 therapy too.

And I work with people and they love me

And I can be overly opinionated and I’m sorry again. I do hope you find peace

I liked our flat - it was home - my husband didn’t. I love London, he doesn’t.
But…
Until 6 months ago, we were living in a shabby little 2 bed ex council flat in a fairly grotty neighbourhood in East London

I’m not trying to catch you out, op, but you sound like the grass is always greener….And Newcastle was your idea! I know what it’s like to not be comfortable with change, but I can see why your dh might be exasperated.

I think you’re still suffering from the trauma of having aborted what you stated was a wanted baby. That’s a huge thing to get your head round and I think a lot of your feelings of panic stem from your need to get yourself some space and time to try and rationalise everything that’s happened. I can’t help feeling that precipitating a trial separation and introducing the need to rent two properties are only going to add to your lengthening series of bad knee-jerk decisions.

Could you go and stay with your Mum for a while to let the dust settle a bit? If you can’t contemplate staying in a relationship with your husband, then of course you need to take steps to end the marriage, but if you decide you want to try and make things work, then following through on your original intention to buy a house in Newcastle might be a start. Moving back down to London would inevitably mean being back in a shabby little flat in a grotty area, so what’s the point? Presumably you can afford a much nicer property in Newcastle, and you must have originally thought it was a good idea, before panic set in?

Try and stay calm and think things through before you make any more rash, and potentially life-changing decisions. I hope it all works out for you.

Oh dear. This is all sounds very hard. I'm so sorry.
And yes your family ND status is a very important part of the story here.

You need autism appropriate therapy and some coaching on dealing with transitions. Particularly on acceptance of what has happened and acceptance of where you are now.

Is your therapist from one of the ND organisations?

Working on yourself if probably the best place to invest for now. Especially if your OH is not dealing well with couples therapy.

You have been through a lot. Please be kind to all of you.

Good luck.

I’m going to say I went too far and am sorry for being so harsh. I was wrong.

Then your husband decided to put his own oxygen mask on first. He wasn't willing to live with the instability you were creating. You wanted him to live in limbo according to your whims and he refused.

You are the one who wanted Newcastle. Once all the work and plans are in place, you want to back out of everything. You are the one who caused all these problems. You act like everything should be all about you. You have no consideration for how unsettling your actions have been for anyone else,especially your husband.

OP, you can’t go back. You could move, but your old life is gone and it wouldn’t be the same. You need to find a way to move forward, acknowledging that this has been a horrible time, and working out what is important to hold on to. Please stop blaming your husband. You both made choices that led to where you are now.

You have a child and a husband, you have a home and proximity to your family. What can you do to make the most of all that? What can you focus on to give you joy right now? What do you love about your child, your husband, your mum? What sort of person do you want to be - and do that. You are the person you have control over, so focus on that, not the things you can’t change.

Maybe the right thing will be to move again at some point, but this really doesn’t seem like a good time to be making that decision.

Kindly, it doesn’t sound true that your life was “ruptured against your will”. Your own account is that your previous flat was grotty and you initiated the move back to Newcastle. I can empathise with being quite a regretful person and stewing over past decisions that now can’t easily be changed (also ND) but I think you should try to embrace the move and remember why you thought it was a good idea to begin with. If you really try to put down roots and embed yourselves in life there and still hate it in a year or two, you could have an agreement with DH to reconsider at that point? All the flip flopping sounds quite unfair on him which is maybe causing him to get a bit fed up and seem like he’s not supporting you. I think most people would struggle to fully support someone’s ideas knowing that next week they might have changed again. For the sake of your son, I would try to make it work in Newcastle, knowing that nothing is really irreversible and if you really don’t settle you could go back to London in a bit. It sounds like you have the opportunity to give your son a better life in Newcastle in a nicer area with family close by. I wouldn’t go back on that now without seriously trying to work it out, and feel similarly about the situation with your DH - it is usually in the best interests of the child to have parents together in a family unit so try to understand where he’s coming from here and how frustrated he must be. From your OP it sounds like he’s have more right to say his life has been ruptured if you convinced him to buy s place in Newcastle and then changed your mind immediately after moving.

Hmm. There are 15 ‘I’s and ‘me’s / ‘My’s in that post …

I haven't read the whole thread yet but wanted to say first of all that I think you did the right thing to cut down on the stress when things are so uncertain. It's not at all a good time for another baby.

Also, I personally don't feel like where my husband and I live is that big of a deal. I've been happy at many different locations and in many different types of housing. If a different perspective helps, I feel like you might be making far more out of it than necessary. It's okay to just go with it and accept that a bit of anxiety and a bit of insecurity comes with moving to a new home. On the positive side, living in a new place can be refreshing, fun and interesting. A new start. Perhaps you have a hard time with change? Good luck.

You should be ashamed of yourself for what you've posted tonight. And all whilst sneering at someone else?

If you want someone to pick on, find a mirror to see a deserving candidate.

I get you @nathaliespace as have been in a similar situation except it was the now exh idea but in hindsight I know I could have stopped it - which is what I should have done especially as I got the blame from exh for not stopping it.

Its just sometimes that you get on a whirlwind or escalator & it's hard to stay in control.

Tell me if I'm wrong but was the idea of Newcastle one of those mad hyper focus moments?
Was it a joint decision to offer on the house in Newcastle or something that your DH pushed through?

Did you really think that your flat in London was shabby & the area grotty?
Or was that your DH speaking.

Also as a pp commented possibly the abortion is making you feel worse?

Feel free to pm if you want to talk privately.

You feel emotionally manipulated? I should think that your husband has a far greater claim to this.

This is true, for everyone. so sometimes everyone is wearing an oxygen mask and no one is navigating the plane.

what is the outcome you want going forward now from where you are. Not looking back. I mean what is it that you want. What can you do to make your life happier ( not what can anyone else do to make your life happier)

In going to separate the issues, because that might feel more structured and contained and offers clarity.

Termination - You made the best decision here op, because it does not sound like you could have managed the enormous strain of a second child in the mix, and the feeling of being wildly out of control would never have stopped. So whilst it’s traumatic, you have in fact avoided decades of on going stress and trauma juggling two young children with a marriage in serious trouble.

Marriage - Op what I can hear is a relationship that has become disempowering and abusive. You describe him as being incredibly nasty’ and the rows are relentless. This is not healthy or normal - nor is it a good environment for your child. The only time you have sounded very calm is when you have spoken about trialling a separation. I would 100% do this op, and see if it helps. The fact he mocks the couples Counselling process is a red flag. It does not sound like he is committed to improving the relationship.

Anxiety - are you taking medication for anxiety? And if not, have you seen a GP? The stomach knots can be a GAD, and it’s not uncommon when patients are ND.

Location - where are you best supported for a trial separation?
Are your London friends or family likely to help you and support you?

Therapy - please continue 1:1 and cancel the couples counselling op. You will need lots of support as you navigate the next steps.

People have been far far too hard on you @nathaliespace. You've done a wonderful job explaining how being autistic impacts you and what you feet the root issue was, lack of agency and not being listened to as you processed what you did/didn't want to do.

Change is hard. Transitions are typically far harder on autistic. It doesn't matter that others would just make it work, for you what has happened is really hard.

Your husband is ND and that doesn't mean he can mock you/your therapy in arguments. Is your couples and 1:1 therapy by a neurodiverse affirming practitioner? There are very different areas for support when someone is autistic. Talking therapy isn't enough. He may be frustrated but he can't be emotionally abusive or coersive.

You've had a lot of trauma in all this. That will impact you too. While I always support a woman's right to choose. When you feel overwhelmed sometimes choices don't feel like actual choices and more trying to stop more stress temporarily. The thing is abortion is permanent.

You clearly love your family and are searching to feel okay and safe again. You need the right supports and a safe space in your relationship to explore what to do.

There's no quick solution really but know that there's some of us cheering you on and wishing for healing and peace for you.

OP ignore all the comments saying you're negative or have a personality disorder. Most people on here are literally mad and can't differentiate between somebody who needs a kick up the arse for a problem of their own making and somebody who has had life sort of happen around them.

I have moved a lot in my life, loads in fact. I always enjoyed house moves. Never found it scary or upsetting etc. around the other things in life I built a house, from scratch, a labour of love. I spent months their in the summer. It's mostly off-grid but still beautiful and I love that. Anyway, I hadn't bitten the bullet and moved into it, I am not sure why but I think the idea felt a bit like retiring. Moving away from the towns it's usually travel between and trading my old life in for the new one I'd spent years building.

When it went down I went into some kind of shock lol. I was non verbal for a few days just yes and no to people. It wasn't the move, lots of people told me moving was the most stressful thing etc but I'd moved home obout 10 times before without batting an eyelid, so I knew it wasn't that I just smiled and agreed.

It took me a long while to process the decision and suddenly from nowhere me and my partner had arguments. I'm not even sure what about, but it has never happened before. I am sure I was responding differently to usual but I wasn't being unfair or cruel, yes somehow seeing eye to eye went out of the window. (It's fine now btw).

I get it and I can't explain it either, it's a sort of sorrow at your old life being over, horror at the instability of the future and feeling trapped. As though you have made your bed and now you have to lay in it. Even if it's a perfectly lovely bed you made.

Take a step back, you're emotionally caught up in the micro moments and the past. You need to look at it from a different view, you will adjust you just need to let yourself. You will struggle while you're still hung up on wanting to move back, if you think that desire will always be there then shelf it for a set time. Tell yourself you will look at moving back again in 4 years but until then you will make it work where you are. This kind of reframing can make you feel less stuck and also give you motives to built savings or makes plans for if you really do want to return to London. Once you have that notion shelved you will be able to think more clearly because it isn't happening right now. So what do you need in the now that will make you happy? Only you know that but you can start with small things, add in a few routines that are centred around you to help you structure your day, I find yoga and running extremely good for stress relief but if that okay your thing maybe try social groups, sports groups, a hobby, reading or something immersive as a bit of eacapism etc and make it a part of every single day.

Mentally, if you want to have any quality of life you need to build it all around you. Which means staying present and focussing on the now and near future. You won't achieve this hung up on could have/should haves.

Be careful with yourself, you've just gone through a rollercoaster of emotions and maybe even some kind of breakdown. Do things that make you feel more in control. This could be things that make you feel more independent eg finding your own friends, places etc there or it could be making the new house yours by changing bits. I'm not suggesting knocking walls down, but some light redecorating and buying some new bedding etc can make a room feel as though you have ownership of it. It's important to restore this balance and begin feeling like you belong. When I moved I suddenly felt like I was in somebody else's life. I'm not very attached to many people so I didn't have that to ground me. I spent time outside, in nature and that helped too. I made plans for the garden which I'd wanted to change for a while. I still haven't done them but having the plans was enough, it gave me a sense ownership and something I intended to do.

Maybe explain to your partner that you need some kindness right now, but he doesn't have to understand. He won't be able to it's diffixult, look at the replies on here, most people don't get it because they haven't experienced it.

For what it's worth I'm fine now but it lasted bloody ages to feel better. I didn't even have a "reason" and I love my house so it's particularly bonkers.

Give your relationship a chance after you have dealt with this first. You don't want to lose somebody you love, if the last 17 years before now have been great. I know lots of couples who have gone through a bad year where they didn't see eye to eye or a stressful event took it's toll on the relationship. It doesn't have to be the end just work on your own feelings for now before bringing it back to your husband, he can't fix these things for you.

Your anxiety over change is not a good enough reason to abandon all the plans that you had made together. You both decided this is what you wanted and you both put that in motion. You seem to want people to understand that your autism has an impact on your behaviour, yet you don't want to give the same consideration to your ND husband. How do you think you would have felt if he'd just decided one day that all those plans that you made together had to change because he decided he wanted to do something else? You're trying to blame your husband for all this because he didn't handle you/things well, but neither did you! You both made each other miserable over the past 6 months, but you don't seem to be taking any accountability for your part in. Being autistic is an explanation, it's not an excuse. You are equally responsible for the health of your relationship. Leaving him as vengeance won't make you feel better. In fact, it will actually be a much bigger change than moving house. And something that will really hurt your child. Don't make any more impulsive decisions that you can't take back. Let things settle then see how you both feel.

OP I think both you and your husband need to stop. You need to regroup and reassess what would be better for all of you. This cannot happen right now as you are all so upset, you all need time to process and work out a way forward together as a family. Until you are all settled nothing will feel remotely right for any of you. Could a change of scene possibly help? I ask this because even just a weekend away together might give you both space to breathe without stress and space to talk and try to make a plan on going forward. You say its a hot mess I think its not even a luke warm one! There is nothing unsurmountable here I just think you have both lost your way and fell off the path you want to be on. Fix your relationship first then when things have settled down a littlebetween both of you then you can decide together slowly and carefully with lots of research when you both would like to be. Onwards and upwards !

What an absolute nightmare for your poor child. I really feel for your husband too. You need to seek mental health support urgently

@Anotherparkingthread is giving you an excellent advice OP.
Your autism is very relevant here - house move can be one of the most stressful events in life. Coupled with struggles with change, rigidity of thinking and problems with emotional regulation it has created a perfect storm for you and it must be an incredibly difficult situation. However, take accountability for your participation in co-creating that mess. Slow down with making further decisions. Try to get out of the panic mode.

You haven't once shown any understanding as to your husbands position here. All I can see in your posts is how you feel, what you want. You keep changing your mind and now you are about to propose another major change to separate which you may well regret as then you will be on your own in a new environment. You and your husband need to be setting an action plan as a team to decide what steps you will take to try and settle where you are. You need to give it your all before deciding it isn't for you.

I think your husband is fed up of getting whiplash trying to keep up with the what you want.

you didn’t like your grotty flat, you wanted Newcastle as YOUR family is there. Then you changed your mind. He’s just trying to go along with a plan!

I think you need to stop changing your mind all the time - who can live their life in such flux?

also would recommend post abortion counselling - Choices charity islington do free online zoom sessions and it would help you come to terms with your abortion loss

What are you and your husband arguing about? It sounds like you're trying to reverse decisions and he's shutting those discussions down? Or he thinks that's where you're heading so he won't entertain the discussion?

Honestly it sounds like he's furious with you. And you feel disconnected and unsupported. Maybe you need to understand your husband's point of view?

If your husband is being actually abusive or contemptuous towards you, that's different. Mocking the therapy is a bit of a red flag. And maybe you need to find calm in order to understand if your marriage needs to end.

But either way, the arguments have to stop. I would aim for that as your first goal. Stop arguing. It's so traumatising for a child to have their parents engaged in constant conflict.