Catastrophising divorce?

[green]

I was wondering if anyone thought that there is a tendancy amongst us to catastrophise divorce. I have noticed that many MNetters (including myself) when talking about the decision to end relationships say 'it would destroy my children' or 'it would ruin my children's lives'.

As a product of my parents very messy divorce, and as a laydee who has been in a miserable marriage for a while and has 3 young kids, this is at the forefront of my mind.

My feeling at the moment is that it wasn't so much that my parents weren't together, it was the way they handled their divorce that was so desructive. Hence if we as parents work together to focus on making sure the impact on the kids is minimised, it may not necessarily be the 'undoing of them'.

Whaddya reckon?

Laidback - also wanted to ask, was your dh angry at first? Was it your decision in the end or a mutual one?

I hear you both about being available.

i feel it improved the life of my kids when i split with my h, i certainly dont regret it and they are definitely not traumatised by it

You could phrase that as 'you are moving with your dc to a smaller house nearby and they will still be able to go back and see their father at his house 50% of the time' and then it doesn't sound like abandonment, does it?

My mum did this with her second h (she had dc all week and sf had them all week-end, so not quite 50/50 but close) and the kids certainly didn't feel abandoned.

I know a case of 50/50 custody that worked very well. The kids are in their early 20's now, and happy, functional, brilliant and close to both their parents. (Much closer than I ever was to my parents--and I was the product of parents who stayed together.)

What may have made a difference was that their mum lived a 5 minute walk from their dad, so there wasn't that much upheaval. They had half their stuff at their mum's and half their stuff at their dad's. A bedroom at each place--and it seemed to work fine.

So it probably can work in certain circumstances, but I agree it's probably not ideal.

I think I'm a lot more messed up than (a lot) of children of divorced parents. I think lots of things e.g. a bad family dynamic or an insane/ambitous/pushy/alcholic/etc parent can be more damaging than a divorce.

Green, sometimes it is more difficult and painful to take the decission to divorce than deal with the consequences of it. (or at least it was in my case)

We didn't have much drama in the final days of our marriage. We realised were we were going and decided to leave it while we still could talk to each other than wait until all those awful things, that sometimes happen at the end of a relationship, were part of our days.

In the first days after the decision was taken, and while I was still in panic about surviving on my own, etc. I ended up at a centre for Separated Families. They gave me some very good advice about how to sort the things up to avoid conflict. One of the things they told me is that the separation won't hurt the children, what does it is all the rows and distress in the days that preceed it. They also recommended a book that I have found invaluable, it is called "Putting Children First" you can get it from Amazon.

So we separated in good terms, DS is fine and enjoying the amount of quality time he is receiving with each of us (our time with him is now precious, so we try to make the best use of it). We are also well, DexH seems happier and enjoying himself, I have had some fantastic months, and I can not yet believe how the decision to separate has brought so much hapiness for the three of us.

If you put your children first and protect each other feelings as much as you can, you can get through it without causing much damage.

Oh I feel like crying at the postivity of your posts. It makes me feel far less desperate. I know I've got a hard time to come and I will have some farking awful days ahead, but your stories give me hope that if I try my hardest to make sure the children are our focus, we might just get through it.

MemysonandI - getting to this point has been like torture, it really has. I've been going round in circles for, dare I say it, years. We have been in therapy together on and off for 5 years trying to fix this. Five years FFS. So there is a little bit of my heart that jumped when you said sometimes the decision is harder than the consequences. Just taking action and feeling like I CAN make a decision based on the here and now has been like a weight lifting off me. I am going to get that book, thanks for recommendation.

dittany, i have been the primary carer but recently have been back at work full time and we have a fab nanny who would stay. she could be a sort of continuation IYKWIM, and I'm sure would be happy to move between houses. They are very very close with their dad though and having3 boys, I think the male role model thing is important. You are right, I am a bit frightened of his anger, and I'm sure there is an element of wanting to keep the peace. But at the moment, anything else feels a push too far. I am presuming the arrangement we come to doesn't have to be permanent does it?

I love that way of putting it ib - it is soooo important that I handle this right. My dad did leave us and started a new family and I always felt very very abandoned by him. My mum was a whole other story. She was hugely resentful and bitter and took it all out on me as the eldest.

There is also good advice on the book about how to tell the children that you are going to separate. We followed the advice, told DS in a very informal chat, he asked if he would see his father again, I explained that he would see him every morning and he would have some super special holidays at his Daddy's hose every other weekend and oh yes, that he was getting a bunker bed.... forget about his parents getting separated he was so happy about the bunker bed that he almost forgot he had a mother! His teacher reported that the only change they saw on him was that he couldn't stop talking about his new bed and even being a bit smug about having 2 houses

BTW first time we ended up in Relate because we wanted to separate was in 2000, we just separated last year.

My life has changed obviously, I can't plan for the expensive overseas holidays twice a year, don't go out for dinners as often as beforem I'm using Avon instead of Clarins (mind you I have some self respect and never use their perfumes!), I'm working twice more hours than before in order to sustain myself, but I'm soooo happy that I don't even care!

ok you are going to have to stop it now memysonandi, i am blubbling with hope at your story. How old was your ds? Can I ask if you had to deal with anger from your dh?

He was 4. regarding the anger... well, there wuld be times when you two will get afraid of change, and when you are afraid you get defensive and say things you really don't mean (exH said he would take DS from me, I said I would go back to my country) but once we realised we were not a "danger" to each other things were fine.

I think that it is particularly important to discuss things with a cold head, everytime that the discussion started to become aggresive we said that we would continue "tomorrow" when we had calmed down ("shut your mouth when you are angry" was my personal mantra during those weeks). At the end of the day, we both wanted the best for DS, and at some point we got to acccept that we didn't want to hurt each other or make each other's life difficult, and in that understanding we have re built a good friendship.

Be kind to him when you tell him, you may get surprised, he may not even be surprised (ExH was the one who said the final word, I was taken aback and felt a bit miserable but then accepted that I have wanted that for years on end). If you think you couldn't keep calm to manage the process, Relate may help you both to go through your fears and expectations by mediating during the conversation.

It is not divorce but the breakdown of the marital relationship that is potentially so damaging for children.

If the marital relationship is truly broken, better to divorce IMO than to stay in the broken marriage.

My parents split up when I was 10 - and tbh it was a welcome relief from the endless rows. They did handle it all very badly and things all went awry later on but it wasn't the fault of the divorce, IYSWIM. Despite all that happened subsequently I never wished the divorce hadn't happened.

And then I divorced my first husband when DS1 and DD were 5 and 7. We always managed to be civil to each other and in fact now are the best of friends; he's a great guy but was a terrible husband! We did the full 50/50 split and in hindsight I wish I hadn't - DS1 could cope but it was tough on DD, I missed them like hell and I ended up working P/T so I could pick them up from school and see them on their "Dad" days, which was a financial disaster. I can't claim it was all straightforward for DD - she's had a lot of problems along the way but I really don't think the divorce was the cause of them. Now they're 18 and 20 and (mostly) well balanced, happy kids.

To sum up - it needn't be a disaster, but you have to be able to stay civil with your ex.

Although I don't often post I just wanted to put my perspective of 50/50 care. When my ex and I separated 8 years ago I promoted this idea because, like green above, I thought it would make it easier for my husband to accept - he too was 'an angry man'.

I should say that I had been the primary caregiver always and the children were very used to turning to me for the day to day things in life.

The result of 50/50 was appalling for the children - my ex treated them like possessions and told them that they were 'his children at his house and my children at mine'. He had been both physically and mentally abusive to me but I had always thought he would be just a parent to the children (there are four of them - the eldest 10 when we separated) - he wouldn't let them ring me, they had to have everything separate and refused to discuss with them anything to do with 'their other life'. Obviously there is a lot more but I can't go into it all here.

The children became extremely distressed and after 3 months I changed it to every other weekend and once in the week supper (they also spend holidays) - this was so much better but I spent a long time feeling guilty because my children had been told by my ex that I didn't want them at all. They all had counselling and it has been very up and down over the years.

I was in a position to change what I thought was best for the kids because I had been the primary caregiver and had stayed in the family home. However it was extremely messy at the time and against my exes wishes. I do know other people where more time with dad has worked but not with mine. Perhaps it might be better to aim for 50/50 over time rather than start something which is difficult to backtrack on.

It struck a chord with me when green said she wanted to appease her partner because my experience was the same but he stayed angry and took it out on the children. If I could have gone back I would realise that it was not my role to appease an angry man who was angry because I wouldn't put up with his abuse any more.

Sorry this is so long, and of course others circumstances might be totally different to mine but I hope it might help to see a different viewpoint.

No, I am going to go an have a free consultation this week.

I didn't mean for one second to suggest that their nanny was a substitute, just that there would be some continuity there.

But in principle if care is shared and its a case of them staying in their family home with one parent, I'm not sure if its the worst thing for it to be their dad???? They are very close with him. He often will have them for whole weekends when I have been in London on various courses.

I do hear what you are saying though, and you are right I will do what is best for children before being scared of him. I'm not scared of him, I'd just rather deal with separation in the most amicable way possible. I don't want to fight. BUT I don't want the kids to feel I am abandoning them. I think I need to have the chat with dh to see what he feels about me staying in the house etc before I jump to any unecessary conclusions I guess.

Agree about the 50/50 not being exactly a good idea, particularly with young children. Obviously, there should be some cases when it works just fine.

I have DS 70% of the time (he goes to his dad's every wednesday after school and every other weekend from Friday to Monday. It's working well.

I think that how much time children spend with each parent needs to be reevaluated frequently. Circumstances change, separated parents' lives become more settled and stable and at different times one parent is able to offer more or less than the other.

We are working towards an "annual review" in September for my stepsons (based in part on their school timetables and other activities, for which we learn the annual schedule in September). They spend about 40% of time with me and their father at the moment and it works very well.

Sorry, I might have given the wrong impression. Dh is a good guy. But thanks kate, I understand the point about building it up. Also, MMS&I, the idea of one or two nights after school plus every other weekend, sounds about right to me too. So, yes, I suppose that isn't 50/50 but it means dh would never have a big gap. I like the idea of an annual review too.
This is very helpful to get myself clearer before talk comes to this, but I also understand I need to stay flexible.

ExH was also worried about missing the "day-to-day" experiences with DS, to help with that, he takes DS to school every day of the week but wednesday (when I take him and he collects him, I collect hime every other day). It is a bit of a hassle BUT it has been very good for everyone. Now, I only wish the school was not that far, although the distance provides a fantastic opportunity for loooong chats with DS.