Trust. Has anyone ever...

[Lurkingandlearning]

Has anyone ever ended a relationship based on a gut feeling without seeking proof?

Whenever an OP says they'd been suspicious and looked through a phone / emails there are always posts saying it is an appalling breach of trust in itself and the OP should have just ended the relationship based solely on their suspicion as trust was gone and a relationship is nothing without trust. I agree with that in principle. In an ideal world where people are unflawed it would be the thing to do. And in short term relationships it is definitely the thing to do.

But I do wonder if those posters are basing their criticism on what they imagine they would do in the same situation, or if they have actually ended a long term relationship based on suspicion without proof.

I never thought I would go through a partner's phone until suspicion slid in and conversations about it didn't make sense, only made the suspicion grow. I needed to know the truth before ending it.

So can anyone honestly say they have ended a long term relationship as soon as they had a gut feeling their partner was doing something that was a deal breaker to them?

Not as soon as…. I was with my first love for 15 years. Throughout the years there were various red flags. He was my first in all ways, and I ignored those flags, the things I raised with him he denied - in my gut I felt they were true, but he denied so I believed. Eventually the relationship became physically aggressive as he was trying to make me become Muslim, I left eventually. I strongly resisted ever going back and he came to me and admitted everthing he had ever done against me, and all that I had been “paranoid” over was the truth. He said he admitted it to aknoweldge that he was the problem and not me, I never got back together with him, but I will say- instinct is powerful, red flags and gut feelings can turn us inside out, they are not always correct- sometimes we feel them because we aren’t getting what we are putting in to the relationship, but sometimes they are the real deal and something to be concerned about. It is up to you if you end it. If I had known the truth I would have saved about 14 years of the 15 being with the wrong person, but ultimately I didn’t know for sure.

Of course you shouldn’t end an otherwise good relationship based on ‘instinct’.

If you can see through walls and predict future - why not rather invest in a stock market….

But, at the same time, you can and should end a relationship if you are genuinely unhappy. And you don’t need to blame it on some paranormal feeling. 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

I have a good friend with a traumatic past relationship. So het ‘instinct’ flairs up regularly - in her new relationship, which is with a really regular, normal and loving guy’
From the outside - its quite clear that her ‘instincts’ are leftover shock wave from the past. Its irrational fear and more about her own issues she needs to deal with than the actual relationship she is in…

Thank you @Coralreef7 . I’m glad you left in the end and hope you’ve enjoyed a better life since then.

"So can anyone honestly say they have ended a long term relationship as soon as they had a gut feeling their partner was doing something that was a deal breaker to them?"

Summary: it’s much harder than lots of posters think to end any relationship based on suspicion alone. If you are an honest person who encounters a partner who seems to obfuscate, but provides reassurance, you want to believe the best in them. It messes with your head. Especially if your only prior experience is trustworthy family and friends who are open with you. It’s unbelievable that some- one you love can be so sly.

Backstory: I ended a relationship after a year of magical dating, based on a gut instinct. I then very foolishly accepted his explanations and remorse and got back together with him, accepting his contrition.

Longer story: in summary on my very first date with a divorcee, I asked him why his first marriage ended and if he’d ever been unfaithful. He looked into my eyes and said “ categorically not”.

Fast forward after a year of magical dating, during a drunken romantic dinner, I asked if there was anything else about him I should know? He admitted that he’ d not mentioned a relationship with a married former work colleague “ Sarah” which had ended before he met me. He said it only started after he had left his wife. He said he and Sarah had provided mutual support about their unhappy marriages for months , and that he had an affair with her, after he had left his wife.

My gut said this was a dealbreaker as (1) he had misled me for a year about his marriage breakdown and (2) he had been happy having a shabby sneaky affair with Sarah, who remained married.

What I did initially was what I’d always thought I’d do: I ended the relationship that night - he had clearly misled me by omission since the very start of our relationship.

For a fortnight he begged me to reconsider, said it was different now he’d met me. Said I had to forgive one mistake as he had now been honest etc etc.

What I then did: I very stupidly forgave him. (1) he had now told the truth(2) he showed remorse (3) he convinced me it would never happen again.

Of course, that was the start of a 15 year troubled marriage - we’d have a good few months then an episode would happen with things that didn’t add up ( mostly meet ups involving this same woman but some financial stuff too) leading to endless counselling about trust etc.

Conclusion: I should have stuck with my gut feeling early on (but then I wouldn’t have DD).

Yes I have, but in my view I did have evidence - his cover story was just so appalling I refused to believe it. So I didn't need to go snooping for more as I was satisfied I'd seen/heard enough.

Story: We'd been together a few years and had been living together. He stayed out all night after a night out with friends, came home at dawn steaming drunk and with what was obviously a lovely bite on his neck (no we weren't teenagers - grim isn't it). His cover story was that he'd got into a fight and been punched in the neck, and then had gone - alone, as none of his friends would alibi him - to an all night bar to drown his sorrows because he was so upset about the fight. It was insulting that he expected me to believe that story, honestly. I wasn't even sad when I dumped him. I took a couple of days to think it over and ended it with no remorse. In fact I LTB on Valentine's day, so I guess today is my anniversary of escaping a future of misery with an unfaithful and clearly unintelligent man 😂

Of course, in my case there was really evidence. What's triggering your suspicions? I think you should at the very least ask upfront (I did, and gave him the opportunity to come clean, he just chose the ridiculous lie) and challenge whatever it is that's concerning you. Just ending the relationship with no discussion would be unusual. Unless you just feel it's run it's course and you want out regardless? In which case you don't need a reason or to pin the blame on him to justify walking away, if you're just not into the relationship anymore.

And you don’t need to blame it on some paranormal feeling.

It's not a 'paranormal' feeling, it's generally picking up on small attitude or behavioural cues.

I don't think is really about "gut feeling' on those threads. It's more around assertions that if you are at the stage that you are looking through things then things aren't right and the trust has gone. In reality, as.a PP said, if you are in a situation where things aren't right and you are being lied to and gaslighted, especially if you are being told you are crazy, you NEED that evidence to have strength. Sadly even eith evidence they often talk you round. I was married for 12 years and had constant infidelity. He always talked me round. At the end he met someone else and asked if we could 'split and still live together as a trail-! Obviously wanting to try out the new woman. He would swear there was no one else, make out i was crazy and being difficult. He would also try to have sex with me and made me feel qe might get back together! So I looked on his phone even after we had split to prove I wasn't going mad. Was also then able to send screenshot of sexual messages he had sent to me asling for sex to his new woman. Which I have to say gave me great pleasure!

Thank you for posting @lonelyplanetmum and @Kbroughton I'm glad you both got away from those mind bending deceitful men. I'm sure you've had better lives without them.

I think when we have serious doubts and feel we won't get the truth by asking looking for evidence is the most sensible and most human thing to do. I posted because every time a woman admits she has checked phones etc. she gets criticised when she is already feeling crushed. I posted to see how many of the critics would come on to say they had ended a long term relationship based on suspicion alone without looking for evidence.

@CharlieAndMoose happy anniversary of LTB 😁Love bites are very distinctive aren't they. Did he say he was punched by an pixie with teeny tiny fists? That was horrible but I'm glad the proof was on his neck and left you in no doubt.

My suspicions were the usual shady behaviour with his phone and online chatting into the early hours of the morning after I'd gone to bed, and that intangible shift in closeness. But that was some time ago.

My reason for posting was to see if any of the many women who are quick to criticise posters who have checked phones etc., have actually ended a relationship based on suspicion alone. None so far. I'll come back later.

The criticism on MN that OP's get for looking at their partner's phones - overwhelmingly when they have good cause to have suspicion - is really upsetting and annoying.
How some posters turn the action of looking at the phone into the unforgivable offence which for them, is much ,much worse than the cheating behaviour which is often revealed,is beyond me.

Been there when I was younger but I wouldn’t do that again I don’t think.

I definitely understand the need to go through the phone or otherwise look for ‘evidence’. The problem is, in my case at least, any evidence I had would have just been laughed at or denied. I think you just want them to admit what they are doing/have done because you feel like you are going crazy. But even when you are appealing for the truths, that’s not in a cheaters best interest and they are unlikely to be forthcoming with it.

The flip side is though that if you are rifling through phones and pockets and whatever else you know it’s not a healthy or good relationship. You should leave without the evidence.

While I somewhat agree with your statements, as in someone cannot know for sure without evidence, often instinct is picking up on many things about that person, and often instinct turns out to be true, because it’s not “paranormal”, it is instinct, designed to protect us from predators. As for carrying old stuff into a new relationship, this can happen, but equally someone can end up going for the same type of person. For me personally, I never bought trauma into a new relationship, I trust deeply unless someone shows me they can’t be trusted. How do you know so much about your friends situations that you can say 100% that her instincts are off and she is just projecting the past onto her new partner?

The only person you can ever 100% trust is yourself.

If you feel suspicious and are going through a phone, then I think the relationship is in trouble.

I have no issue with going through a phone because you are trying to protect yourself.

If my husband did it to me, I would be appalled though.
It has never occurred to me to ever check my husbands phone and we are together 35 years.

I encourage women to listen to their gut and if they are suspicious, checknit out.

@EleanorRigby2U "" I think you just want them to admit what they are doing/have done because you feel like you are going crazy. But even when you are appealing for the truths, that’s not in a cheaters best interest and they are unlikely to be forthcoming with it."

I think this is so true. The feeling you are going crazy feeling is awful. You become hyper vigilant. Yet you can almost get used to a cycle of repeated episodes - I guess you have an adrenaline or cortisol response.

Not always though. Sometimes it is irrational feelings sparked by past bad relationships- be that past romantic relationships or familial.

My bad past relationships include the latter, and it has affected all my close relationships ever since.

Totally agree with the adrenaline, cortisol response, it’s horrific. The sense of knowing yet not knowing. It points to one of two things- either there are untoward things going on, and your instincts are correct, or the other person is not making you feel safe in the relationship in some way. I’d say that for majority of those who have been hurt and damaged in the past, being with someone where the dynamic is different, they are transparent, they communicate well and they make you feel safe, you will not be projecting old hurts onto this partner. I only speak from personal experience. Having had my trust betrayed so thoroughly, through physical and emotional aggression, cheating, lying, gaslighting and narcissistic manipulation, I took many years out and away from men completely. When I met a new guy I was on cloud 9 and thoroughly trusting him for a good year before the red flags starting waving. I very cautiously approached those red flags, wanting only to see the best, and finding it very difficult to believe he wasn’t a good man. However I had the wisdom to see the pattern of behaviours he was displaying, and I took a step back. He outright denied doing me wrong. I felt leaving was the correct choice as my instincts about it were constantly playing on my mind. About a year later something came out about him through mutual friends that was shocking, and proved my instincts to be correct. I am very glad I left when the red flags started waving. However this guy when we were a couple was always falsely accusing me of bizarre things telling me he had an instinct for this and that. I think it was manipulation and protection of his own misdeeds. I don’t personally think he believed his accusations and he seemed to have an end game to make me live anxiously attached to him, and this was one of the red flags for me. We have to take a step back, survey how things are, and honestly write a list of the behaviours we are seeing that are kicking off these instincts, or whether there is nothing material there besides our own dark thoughts/ past bad experiences. Once we have clarified that, we can then make a decision, because you don’t necessarily need evidence, if there are red flags and you don’t feel safe - that can be enough to destroy you inside.

I wasn't claiming it's always accurate or rational 'though, I was replying to the person dismissing it as "paranormal".