Disagreement on marriage views

[User9988766542]

DP has been married before, now divorced. I have never married. We live together and each have children with our exes no joint DC. I’m a couple of years older than him and I’ve been feeling a bit wobbly about ageing the past year as it’s hit me I am not getting any younger. We earn equally and own 50/50 there is no disadvantage for me being unmarried.

The topic of marriage has come up before and he was enthusiastic about it being something that could happen in the future but it’s not something we frequently talk about. We aren’t engaged and there are no plans to. We both agree we wouldn’t want our wider families to attend, there is too much drama and expense (his family huge, mine is complicated). One conversation we had before be said he would like to have a beach wedding with our kids and I said I was fine with a pretty registry office and a nice honeymoon with our kids. Some kind of low key small affair. I even said I don’t expect an engagement ring or a lavish proposal, I am keen on the marriage/commitment part not the wedding or spending a lot of money.

I appear to have put my foot in it with him when I made a bit of a flippant comment about not fancying being an old crusty bride. It was in the context of a conversation about someone else’s wedding but I cannot even recall why we were talking about it. I didn’t need to say it, it wasn’t very relevant to the conversation but just came out.

We do not often disagree and are quite good at hearing each others POV’s but this got out of hand. No shouting but emotional.

He asked what I meant and I was just honest in that moment and said well part of me would prefer do it before I am 50 or even 60 and that’s just me being vain I suppose and I didn’t think we needed to save up £10k (which seems unrealistic) to have some fancy beach wedding and beach weddings were still a lot of admin and planning to do, we could just find a nice place in the UK to go and a nice holiday. This then led on to more conversation where he said this ‘wasn’t very romantic’ to just be bothered about what I would look like in instagram photos and having a cheap wedding so I got a bit annoyed and said well it’s ok for him to say that, he got married in his late 20’s, he had a big do and he’s already done all that. Then he got upset as he said he had married his then wife expecting it to last for life and it didn’t. Then I got upset saying well at least someone wanted to marry you as no one has even tried to marry me.

I tried to just end this debate by saying I was being flippant about being an old bride and didn’t mean it and shouldn’t have said it. He sort of admitted if we did it, he would be marrying me because it was mostly what I would want, which made it worse and I said I didn’t want that it had to be what he wanted too.

We agreed to disagree in the end. I said we should consider that perhaps marriage was not right for us as we had different views. This also pissed him off as he felt it was ‘manipulative’ for me to bring it up then say we were incompatible in marriage. I can’t win.

TDLR he’s annoyed I was being impatient and unromantic by not wanting to be an ancient bride and get married cheaply and I was left annoyed he was being delusional expecting us to save up a silly amount of money (that would take years and be used for other things) just to get married on a beach.

From that you’ve said I think that marriage means more to you than you’re telling your partner and yourself. I think it is something you deep down feel quite vulnerable about, and what you’ve tried to put out as flippant has been loaded with your true feelings about wanting to be married. There nothing wrong with wanting to get married. And I agree that it should be between 2 people who want the same thing. I think you should allow yourself to really sit with your true feeling around marriage and what you want for yourself. Allow yourself to feel hurt and have a cry. Take a few days pondering it and allow whatever emotions that come up to surface and sit with them. You’ll have a better understanding of your true feelings if you do that. Then go back to your partner and tell him the truth of how you feel. You have to be ready to accept that his feeling may be different to yours, but listen to what he has to say with an open heart. Take some time to work through this together and this will help you both decide what you really want and if you’re hope for the future are in alignment. If they are, great. If not, then you have to consider if you can still work together despite wanting a different future or if there’s a compromise that can be made somewhere. Marriage can be a really tricky, emotionally loaded area for a lot of people. It’s ok to be upset. Be kind to yourself whilst you process this and don’t make rash, reactionary decisions about how you move forward. And do not push your feelings down and settle for something that isn’t truly what you want. 💐

@TipsyJoker I try very hard to think rationally about this, it’s not either of our faults he already got married and I did not. I did worry when I met him this might be an issue but I assumed from discussions we were on the same page about marrying one day for the right reasons.

here is the crux. One day to him could be the next 20 years though, and if it doesn’t happen then he wouldn’t think about it much. It’s like cleaning out your shed - something you might get round to doing one day but if you don’t, it doesn’t really affect your life much.

So I am disappointed because I don’t want a marriage to be on someone’s ’to do’ list. Nothing bad will happen to me if I don’t get married. There are far worse things to get upset about. But I am deep down disappointed and a bit sad.

It’s not a deal breaker for me to break up over it. He means more to me than marriage and I need to stop relating it with his feelings about me, like I am not good enough. He likes to tell me marriage doesn’t really mean anything but only someone who has been married can say that and I don’t have that chance as marriage is a 2 person thing so not something I can ever experience alone. There will always be a part of me that will probably feel not quite good enough but I suppose I have to work though this. He tells me I am good enough

It doesn’t help that women of all ages persistently ask me about marriage (knowing we aren’t married) and after a recent trip we took together about 4 people asked me excitedly if I got a proposal on the trip. Men do not get asked this shit. So either I just smile and say oh no not yet (as if I am hoping) or I answer ‘probably never happen’ so that people stop asking? I did in fact tell my friend who asked me today ‘it’s unlikely to happen and I don’t think we will get married sorry’. I cannot imagine him proposing and even I cringe at the idea of getting a proposal in some flashy public way, I do not want this, or a ring to be honest. I am not seeking an engagement I would seek a marriage

People are being very rude to ask if you had a proposal on holiday. Just say "No" very brusquely and move on, like it's none of their business - which it isn't. I mean, what are they expecting you to say - "oh yes, I forgot, here's my big diamond ring for us to all squeal at" like you're in Legally Blonde?

It does at least sound like you are not at a material disadvantage, so I think the best thing you can do is mentally take it off the table for yourself. Don't let it be something he holds over you. Then, if it happens, it happens, but in the meantime your focus will have been on yourself, not on hoping he will grant you your wish. I'm sorry, I know that's not the great romance you have pictured.

I honestly hear you.. When I met my boyfriend he said he would "marry me tomorrow if I would" . I have never been married and he's twice divorced... Well it's been 4 years and no proposal 🙈 We also don't have kids together but ones from other people. We are how we 50/50 on everything and earn the same money. When I think about it I find it quite sad but not enough to leave as marriage isn't the be all and end all. However it hurts to think he's done it twice before yet I'm not good enough to ask...

It seems that your are trying to push aside your true feelings about marriage because you don’t want to jeopardise your current relationship in order to be rational. Do you usually have trouble expressing your emotions or is it just this particular situation that makes that difficult?

marriage is not a deal breaker. I don’t want to risk our whole relationship on just me being disappointed. He is otherwise a great partner. It’s just the excitement of marriage isn’t the same for him as he’s been married already. That’s not really his fault. He had a wedding and thought it was for life and she left him.

If I was young and having kids with a man I would now absolutely insist on marriage for protection, knowing what I know now about what happened to me being unmarried I was so vulnerable and came off very badly. I was left with no money no home and 2 little children. It’s taken me years to get on my feet and at one point I was out earning my DP. I’m not afraid of being alone, trust me!

The one thing that irks me about DP is that he is an imaginary soul and often ponders about delusional silly things and likes to have conversations about what is your dream car (which we can’t afford and it’s just a car I don’t care about cars) and what would I spend £50k on (the kids, the house he says this is boring) what would I do if I won the lottery etc (buy a nice house) and he says I am boring when I don’t join in the fantasy chat about lambos, mansions and stuff. The beach wedding is part of his fantasy chat. It will never happen so I don’t like fantasising about things I can’t have. He is the type to send me right move links to £3million pound houses asking me what I think about it. I am just too sensible and say stop sending links 😂

He isn’t delusional in other ways in life he is normal and lives a normal life but he does like these little fantasies about having millions and I don’t

”I don’t want to risk our whole relationship on just me being disappointed. He is otherwise a great partner.”

This is the reason you are pushing your feelings aside. You value what you have and that’s a good thing. But if you’re completely honest, you are very sad that you’re not married to this man whom you love so much. Not only are you sad, hurt and disappointed but it’s beginning to affect your self esteem because he’s been married before so why not you? And if your honest, could you be a little bit resentful that he’s not married you? If you are, that’s ok. And that’s completely understandable. I think for once, you do need to be very open about how much it would mean to you to commit to each other by making marriage vows. Talk about how you feel without any expectation from him. Just make it about how you feel and leave it all out on the table. I’m sure he will understand how you feel. I don’t know that you will get the marriage you want or not, but at least you will have been able to fully express your true feelings and that in itself will probably relieve a lot of the internal struggle. Take out all that other noise about millionaire delusions that you added in to detract from the real issue at hand. Put it all out there and unburden yourself. Otherwise it could damage your relationship long term.

@TipsyJoker he does know. I have been honest. And this is why he said he would do it to make me happy, because he loves me and would not want me to be unhappy about this. So he would go along with it for my sake even though he isn’t bothered by it. This misses the point as I want it to be something he would want too equally. As it’s not equal I suggested we don’t bring this up again and perhaps it’s better to let it lie. It would be far worse for him to marry me out of obligation than to not marry at all. He did backtrack a little saying it’s not something he actively doesn’t want to do at all, he just doesn’t want to do it as much as I do. Then he said I should just be patient and he would want to ‘do things properly’ but this could mean anything. I was suggesting we just agree to make a plan and forgo any of the formalities of it and say ok let’s save up. He wouldn’t commit to not doing it or completely doing it so by this point I was a bit worn out by it all.

I absolutely refuse with my pride to bring this up again as it was a little humiliating for me to be so vulnerable about it and I felt lots of different ways, like I was being a bit shallow and silly and childish. I put myself out there and I was disappointed but I will try not to hold onto it and let it ruin things. It’s only come up once since then someone mentioned going to Dubai on holiday and I said I would not go with him as I would be unmarried and wouldn’t feel safe as a female there and wouldn’t risk it.

He knows I don’t need him and that I am choosing to be with him and he says he feels lucky to be with me and I am a catch and he is sorry he feels the way he does it’s not a reflection on me it’s that he got burnt, and I do appreciate that.

Its not just other women, our kids ask us sometimes too and I now don’t say anything and don’t respond - I let him talk.

I just wanted to add I do not do it passive aggressively when the kids ask I just don’t know what to say so I change the subject or let him answer.

I wonder if marriage isn't that meaningful to him because he's done it before, he's made those vows already, and they were broken. So it doesn't seem important to say them again, as they were ultimately meaningless last time. If it was about legal/financial arrangements only then that aforementioned wouldn't hold water, but it sounds like it's not really - you want him to want to make those promises. But he knows they don't necessarily count for anything.

Edit - typo

Will you be okay if he never agrees to marry you? Because it sounds like he really doesn't want to get married ever again and is getting defensive, making excuses and throwing up barriers so you don't figure that out.

was a little humiliating for me to be so vulnerable about it and I felt lots of different ways, like I was being a bit shallow and silly and childish

Its interesting that these are the feelings that came up for you. It might be useful to reflect on why. Why would voicing your true feelings be shallow, silly or childish?

@BlanketLanyard this is basically it yes.

@LifeExperience I have gone all this time already and I am otherwise fine. Tbh I am at the point where I am unsure marrying him would be the right thing for either of us and feel forced not natural so I would rather go without. I would also be annoyed if he does some type of proposal thing as I genuinely don’t believe in all those role stereotypes of a man having to get down on one knee with a ring he has no idea if I will like, and think it’s best to just agree mutually to get married and then do it.

@TipsyJoker I think this is tied up with the idea this something that YOUNG people do or want, because he finds it meaningless/pointless then this would mean I am having a silly unrealistic fantasy about marriage

Also some of his comments about me just wanting to look nice for photos. One of my thoughts was I will be way past my best if I’m getting married older so why keep waiting and he saw this as I just care what other people think

Well, marriage isn’t just something young people do. Many older people get married nowadays. Age has nothing to do with it. And of course you would want to look nice, every bride does. There’s nothing wrong with that. It’s about how you feel about it not what other people think. I think there is some misunderstanding here between you’re desire to get married and have that commitment to each other and his inability to see that for what it is. It sounds like he might be trying to make you feel bad about wanting to get married because he’s not keen and that’s not very kind at all. He can disagree without making your wishes a problem. They’re not a problem, they’re perfectly reasonable. He just doesn’t agree and that’s fine too. Perhaps it would be good to explain to him that both parties feelings are valid, just different and it would be helpful if he could try and understand your point of view rather than trying to find reasons to rubbish it. This might help you to feel heard and understood as opposed to having your feelings invalidated. This isn’t just about getting married, it’s about him being able to accept your feelings as valid, even if he doesn’t want the same thing.