Sibling has been stealing money from our Dad.

[Curlycrocodile]

My narcissistic brother has been stealing money from my dad, using his credit card to make online purchases.

He accidentally told my mum (parents are divorced) a few months ago that he'd been on a spending spree on my dad's credit card and she thought it had been a silly joke. So she never said anything. It turns out that it wasn't as my Dad told me that his credit card had been scammed 2 weeks ago, I happened to mention it to my mum who works for the bank and she then told me to tell my dad what my brother had told her.

My mum and me had no doubt in our minds at this point that it was my brother. Although he knew, my dad didn't say anything at all to my brother until 2 weeks later when my mum became concerned that the police would go knocking on his door when the fraud team found out who had made the purchases. So she called my brother herself and told him to tell the truth.

Brother then completely denied ever telling my mum that he'd been using my dad's card. Completely gaslighted her. But he called my dad minutes later and told him that he had suddenly realised he'd "accidentally" used my dads card to make hundreds of pounds of online purchases after once using his card with his permission.

Despite all the evidence, my dad believed it was all a big accident... even when my mum had informed him 2 weeks earlier that she believed it was my brother based on his little "joke" months before. 🤦‍♀️

I've decided to confront my brother because to continue a relationship with him with this knowledge would be impossible. He has exploded. Both my mum and myself have received abusive messages for "stirring trouble." His wife (flying monkey) is also sending us messages victimising my brother and saying we're supposed to his family and we are "bullying" him.

My dad is being very quiet but has said "it was all done and dusted until you spoken to him today" referring to me confronting him. I have also confronted him about £1000 he's asked our elderly grandmother for to take his ex wife to court again, despite him recently booking an expensive abroad holiday.

My mum and I have been accused by my brother and his current wife of not wanting them to go on holiday, of causing trouble, we have both been confronted for accepting gifts from my grandmother- one being a dog for my children 3 years ago when their father left us which my grandmother wanted to get for them due to their grief. His wife is sending me messages about gifts of money my dad has given me implying that they are entitled to what they have stolen because of this, even though my dad gifts them money too! Which I can't quite believe the audacity of. All sorts has been dredged up and they are both still lying about taking the money intentionally. I'm getting more angry and trying not to get sucked in by all the mirrors and smokescreens yet feeling I need to defend my dads decisions to gift small amounts of money now and then for car repairs, vets bills etc when similar gifts have been made to them! Infact thousands more has been given to them to help pay for previous court hearings against his ex wife. I have never complained or compared as I have never needed to take my ex husband to court as we are civil.

I find it completely bizarre that they think this is all ok to do. It's absolutely mental. My dad is saying nothing. He is in his early 70s and probably doesn't want to face up to the truth.

I'm trying to ignore the tirade of messages I'm receiving but it's so hard when they seem to think that the answer is to turn on my mum and me. My mum is poorly and they don't seem to care and have blamed her for it all even blamed her that "now your grandchildren will never know their cousins because of what you have said". No accountability for stealing the money. My dad will no doubt feel sympathy towards him for calling him out!
What a shambles!

I couldn't have kept quiet and played happy families but the energy that calling this out has taken from me is immense. I understand that this is between my brother and my dad, but we have a family meal coming up and I just couldn't face sitting around a table with my lying, thieving brother and wife.

Any advice moving forward?

Someone in your family is having a lot of fun watching this. Your dad sounds like he’s used to enabling

He's always excused my brother. I don't think there is anything he could do that would make him face up to the reality of the person he's become. So I have no choice but to accept my dad's perception of things.

I don't know who's having the fun. It feels awful. Maybe I should have just ghosted him because the stress of speaking up is massive. But then, I guess isn't that how women are supposed to behave? Not speak up?

Your brother and his wife are a disgrace but sadly there is not an awful lot you can do.
It is not clear from the post are your mum snd dad still together?
Your dad being early 70’s is hardly elderly he could live another 25 years. He needs his resources for himself now, and to be abused like this is absolutely dire.
You could definitely do with some practical advice for the future. I realised too late looking after my dad that I should have set up a POA. Sadly, the last thing you’d want is to your brother to have any control over your dad’s finances. Could your mum help with this?
Personally, I would go no contact with him and his wife. I know it makes it award in terms of family occasions but it’s getting to the stage where you are being bullied.
As for requesting money from your gran that’s despicable

Yes I agree re going NC. I was already contemplating this and after the messages I've received it's a definite. I don't want people like that around my children or myself. It's just a shame for the children who will miss each other are are innocent in all this.

Mum and dad are divorced so mum was in a very difficult position not knowing whether to speak up or not until she felt she had no choice.

What's a POA?

I agree re my dad. He should be enjoying his money and making the most of life. It's disgusting that he has had so much, takes more and then complains that dad has willingly given me money too. I knew he would avoid accountability but the responses I've had are so entitled it's bizarre.

So I have no choice but to accept my dad's perception of things.

I’m curious. What would happen if you didn’t accept his perception and trusted yours? I think your dad probably enjoys the family thinking your brother is the black sheep. Is this a feature of your childhood?

PoA = Power of attorney

Don't get distracted by their accusations of you - ignore them.

This is about him stealing from your dad, telling your mother about it, then lying to your dad about it.

Just be careful if your mum has accessed your dad's account for personal reasons - she might get in trouble for that if it comes to light.

Your brother sounds as though he can't be trusted.

Leave them to it
Block your brother and his wife and go NC
Let your Dad get robbed after one last warning

My brother was a premature baby and it appears that my dad has continued seeing him as innocent and defenceless into adulthood.
He's got away with all sorts over the years. I had to leave home at 19 because of his aggressive outbursts which dad always defended.
Me and dad have a good relationship now but all of this excusing him is quite triggering for me.

No she hasn't accessed ang accounts. She's aware of the fraud process so has advised my dad and told my brother to be truthful but that's it.

Hi OP

This is outright theft/fraud. You should contact Crimestoppers/Action Fraud in the same way that people do when they have been scammed, as this is what your brother has done - the fact that he’s famiily wouldn’t make a difference to me. What happens if he carries on using your dad’s card? How much money does he have to take before someone calls a halt?

I would also let your grandmother know before he scams her too, because none of this money is going to get repaid.

It appears that you are going to be the bad guy anyway. Isn’t it about time he takes responsibility for his actions?

As Op is not the victim and if her Dad refuses to make a complaint there is not much Action Fraud can do.
If her Dad has capacity he can do what he wants

Dad doesn't want to take anything further unfortunately and mum has intervened to save him being caught by fraud. I wish he'd been caught now tbh.

He's never taken responsibility for his actions unfortunately @SerenStarEtoile . It's always someone else's fault. Usually a woman. It changes between his ex wife, her mother, me, our mother and his current mothering law. Never him. The blatant mysoginy is maddening.

*mother-in-law

I had to leave home at 19 because of his aggressive outbursts which dad always defended.
Me and dad have a good relationship now but all of this excusing him is quite triggering for me.

Your dad has always done what’s best for HIM. Not your brother, not your mum, him. He is probably enjoying all the hate your brother is getting. One of the signs of a parent who plays emotional games is a parent who sets people up against each other. You won’t unpick this without grappling with your dad’s choice not to protect you.

I agree that you need to block them.

Unfortunately, if your Dad doesn’t want to face up to this, there’s nothing you can do. But, you should definitely look into Power of Attorney in case that your Dad ever loses capacity and/or needs someone to help him with finances. It sounds as if he’d very vulnerable if your brother got involved. It’s best to get the POA forms sorted out well before they’re actually needed.
www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney

That's an interesting way of looking at things. Perhaps it's all been about having an easy life for my dad at whatever cost. He definitely doesn't enjoy the falling out though and isn't emotionally manipulative- more neglectful.

Apart from what's going on now, you need to think ahead and talk to your father about an enduring PoA and a will. This situation is distressing, it will get far worse if your father loses capability or dies. Go with him to a solicitor and explain, honestly, what's been happening.

I've been in a similar situation with my brother, for many years he dumped his children and left me and my Mum bringing them up (he had custody due to the mum's mental health issues but all he wanted was the benefits that came along with the children). He stole from me, he has stolen from my Mum. He is money grabbing and takes what he wants. He claims benefits he's not entitled to, he works cash in hand to avoid paying tax. The list is endless about how vile he is. Our other brother became terminally ill and put on end of life care and be disappeared from his life completely because the situation stressed him out. He's a selfish person.
I was sick of my parents enabling it and making excuses, even 'we know what he's like'. It started affecting my mental health after he stole from me and my children. He also banned me from seeing my niece after I confronted him. The niece I brought up from being a baby alongside my kids. It will have affected her greatly as she was part of our family, we did everything together, she slept here 3/4 nights a week and came on all our holidays with us etc.
So I completely cut him out. We have been no contact for 3 years now and it was honestly the best thing I've ever done. My stress levels have reduced. I can not and will not forgive him for what he's done to our family and using children as weapons.
It's so hard going no contact, especially when there's an enabling parent stuck in the middle. But I have I regrets at all. I'm much better off financially and mental health wise completely cutting him out of my life.

At this point I would leave it alone and let your parents deal with it how they want to. It's natural to want to support your parents but getting in to a dispute with someone who is narcasistic probably isn't going to end well for you.

There are probably other ways in which you can support your parents , such as encourage them to engage with police regarding the fraud and support them through that , and to also go no contact with the narcasist. He is not entitled to a relationship with you, you were both born to your parents without choice, now you're an adult you get a choice who you want in your family. I'd cut him out.
Engaging with a narcasist is very draining on your mental health, expecially when they begin to retaliate and you've got 3 children you need to consider, is it really worth allowing him to steal your peace.
Try to be a kinder to his wife chances are she's under his narcasistic spell and suffering from narcasistic abuse and has no other option but to support his behaviour to protect herself. You don't have to like her but you can be understanding of the kind of relationship she is in.

I think it's ok to say to your dad, I love you and I hate how my brother mususes you for money. I feel its theft. He's a grown man and you always forgive him, which I hate. I love you and want you to enjoy your money for you. You've worked hard to enjoy it.

I'm going NC with my brother and his wife as they have been very aggressive and abusive when I told them I knew about the money he stole from you. I was angry on your behalf.

It is ultimately up to you what you do with your money, and the relationship you have with him. I know that. But I camt in all good faith pretend I approve of what he does to you.
I wont attend any 'family' events he attends, so please dont ask me to 'for the sake of family'. I'm not trying to be horrible. I just wont see him. There's always a work around for birthdays and Christmas etc. I very much love you and want to spend days and special celebrations with you. I know as much as you support my brother in your way, you'll support me in this way.

Your dad is the victim of a crime here and if he can’t see that or doesn’t want to see that then there is not an awful lot you can do. You could try a referral to SWS under their Adult Protection protocol but I fear they would come to the same conclusion if there are no capacity issues eg dementia. Your brother had had a lifetime of being enabled and made excuses for by him, I can’t see that changing.
People referring to Power of Attorney are probably thinking along the right lines, but it doesn’t sound like your dad is likely to agree to you having POA and he would have to give consent. Even if he was willing to, no way would I would taking on POA for someone who was going to blame and scapegoat me every time a difficult decision had to be made and I was going to have to be ‘bad cop’ every time.

I would definitely go no contact with brother and his wife. Ignore and block. I wouldn’t be taking part in any family meals where a thief and golden boy was there.

For dad, it’s time to say, I love you dad but I’ve made my feelings about my brother and his behaviour clear. If you don’t want to see that that’s up to you but if we are going to spend time together that topic is off the table and it will have to be without him.

You're in a terrible situation because you put your dad's interests first because you love him and you only have one dad. Your dad is in a terrible situation because he has 2 children who he loves equally and puts both your interests before his own. Whilst he knows he's been taken advantage of and has the power to deal with it, he would rather take it on the chin and hope it doesn't happen again. He knows you're right but because he's the victim and not you, he'd rather let it go. It's a total breach of trust but I bet he's scared of losing the selfish prick if he challenges him.

If I were you, I'd never mention it again as it probably upsets him and write him a letter explaining how you feel, which he can then read as many times as he needs to. As he gets older it's likely he'll need more help which sounds like would come from you and not your brother. It would be awful if you had to see this still happening to a confused old man.

Power of Attorney gives his chosen trusted person the power to look after his interests if he ever loses capacity in relation to his health and welfare and also separately his finances. Me and my sister did it for my dad a few years ago but only because he trusts us. I doubt he would have picked me if I'd used his credit card like your brother did. Maybe get some info on POAs and attach with your letter so he can decide when he's alone? My dad is currently in a coma so we can make his decisions rather then the hospital or government.

I feel really bad for you having such a shit for a brother but your dad must feel so betrayed.