We've had the baby - why do I now NEED him to ask me to marry him..?

[Mhairi76]

Ok, this is the (embarrassing) thing. I have been with my partner for 8 years. He has always made it clear that he is ?not the marrying kind?, and as I was younger than him, independent, enjoying life, had a career, etc. etc. then that situation suited me as well. Then, last year, we had a baby together, and now I suddenly want all of the following: for him to propose to me; for us to be a ?proper? family (whatever that is!); to have a ceremony (I?m RC ? this is a big deal!) in front of our friends and family where we say the words ? and more than anything ? just for him to want to marry me and prove that this is as close to ?forever? as it gets for both of us. I?m ashamed to say that I?ve hinted to this effect, and he has made it quite clear (again) that it is not only ?not on?, but never will be ?on?. He ?doesn?t believe? in marriage. This has made me think about loads of stuff ? the fact that maybe I?ve always wanted this, but wouldn?t admit it to myself, and the fact that I have always loved him more than he loves me (in fact, I think I got pregnant at least in part because he was very broody, and I wanted to please him and keep him with me!)

Is it alright to want this? If it?s really important to me (and it is) how do I get this? What do I do if he makes it clear it?s never going to be possible??

No idea Mhairi, but wanted to sympathise, as have a similar DP.

What makes it all the galling for me is that he married someone when he was 25 pretty much on a whim.

I have 2 children with this man, who are 3.5 and 20 months - I think I have now kind of resigned myself to the fact that it will never happen - he won't talk about it.

I think you need to make it crystal clear how you feel. Is your relationship a good one?Do you think getting married will really make it any better than it already is?

Of course it's alright to want this - I underwent exactly the same change of heart - despite having been previously the more anti-marriage person in the partnership.

But unfortunately I think you have to accept that it's also alright for your partner not to want this.

Maybe you need to disentangle what you both want though.

Are you mainly looking for security in the event that something happened to either of you, or mainly wanting public acknowledgment of your relationship?

Would he be happy with a registry office quickie, just to give you peace of mind, is it just the big day that is putting him off? Or is he anti the whole commitment?

At the least I hope you have sorted your wills, finances (is the house in your name etc?) and parental responsibility for your kids? If not you need to sit him down and MAKE him address those issues. To avoid those smacks not just of being anti marriage (which I think is ok) but of being anti-commitment (which I think is not on when there are kids involved)

Possibly controversial, but I personally think it is very disrespectful not to want to marry the mother of your children. From a less personal and more boring legal point of view, marriage brings with it a raft of legal benefits and I personally would not have someone's children without the protection of marriage - for you and your child. Perhaps this is something you could look into and talk to your partner about? Things like the fact you are not entitled to his pension, you have no automatic legal/financial protection, that you are not considered each other's next of kin, that you will have to pay inheritance tax should the other die first etc etc. Presumably he has parental responsibility for your child (I believe this is not automatic for unmarried fathers but is something you can agree to him having) but if not then that's something to think about as well.

As for how you get it - I think you need to talk, not hint. Find out what his objections are and be clear about what you want/need. You may have changed your mind about whether marriage is important to you, but you're allowed to do that! Bottom line, you may have to decide whether you are happy to stay together if he is adamant - you can't force him.

If you don't go down the marriage route then do have a look at drawing up something like a cohabitation agreement for your own protection (assuming you haven't done so already).

Yes, of course it's OK to want this. Very sensible, too - you have virtually no rights unless you are married, and (looking on the blackest possible side) he could walk away tomorrow and wouldn't owe you a penny, although he would have to pay very basic maintenance for your baby.

You must sit down and have a chat with him. Ask him why he "doesn't believe" in marriage. Is it because his own parents split up? Even if he really doesn't want marriage himself, does he acknowledge the fact that you really do want it? How does he reconcile the two positions?

You will have to sort out some sort of formal arrangement, at the very least, if you are to stay together.

The thing that worries me most in your OP is the comment that you love him more than he loves you. This situation is never good for the person who feels loved less. Do you want to spend the rest of our life on the back foot, wondering if he's still interested enough?

Horribly mixed up feelings on this one. I also thought it was disrespectful of my xh not to want to marry me when we had four children together. And of course you are not crazy to want this. It's a societal norm that many couples have, so why shouldn't you. At the same time, you knew his position when you get together, so you have moved the goalposts a bit, IYSWIM. But I still can't help feeling sorry for you that he won't discuss it, because I've been there and know how important it is if that is what you want. It makes you feel rather unloved if they won't agree.

How unhelpful was that??

I felt the same about my dh, he wouldn't talk about marriage after dd1 was born and I remember literally fuming, basically at the disrespect he was showing both of us. I didn't want a big wedding at all, just a sense of him taking what we had seriously
How old is your baby now and what kind of father is he? Basically the more time we spent as a family the more he came round to the idea without me doing anything (tbh I forgot about it). Eventually when dd1 was just two and I was pg with dd2 we agreed after a pretty unromantic conversation about tax that we should marry and did so about three weeks later and we're both very glad we did. BUT there was no big day malarkey about it all, so perhaps you need to discover if that side of it is also frightening off your dp. Good luck, I think it does make a difference being married, having small dcs is very, very hard and having that extra commitment to each other does help you through it.

Thanks for all your comments, everyone - and a great deal of sense you all talk, as well! I can't really talk about this with my other friends, because either a) they all actually ARE married (and I've spent the last 8 years insisting I didn't want to do what they all did years ago...) OR, they are very sophisticated, ambitious career women I work with (and they already feel slight pity for the scatty, frantic, slightly-fat and distracted nutcase I have become...)

I don't think he's anti marriage - I think (as someone commented..) that he's anti-commitment, and yes - I have always been the willing 'giver' in our relationship.

But this baby rearing thing is by far the hardest thing I have ever attempted (a career is NOTHING compared to this..!), and sometimes I feel that I love the baby and him, and he loves the baby. In general, he is a bit of a weakwilled charmer, but I have always adored him. Life with him is not always easy, and the baby has changed the dynamic of our relationship (I need some care and support now!)- I think I just want it all to be worth it. I want to believe that I am building something (a family?) that may be flawed, but permanent and 100% committed. And while I believe he is 100% committed to our son - I feel insecure about him being 100% committed to me. But, you know? A wedding would not mean that that commitment was there - and I'm fooling myself to think that it would.

I need to talk to him, don't I? Wish me luck.

Good luck

Am slightly puzzled by the RC thing being relavant to wanting to be married as you have had a baby out of marriage. Anyhow, that is beside the point (I was just being interested in the reasoning).

To be fair, he did tell you he wasn't interested in getting married so he hasn't led you on, but I suspect like a lot of women you thought he would change his mind or you could change it.

If he really doesn't want to get married there are other things you will need to put in order.

Should anything happen to him you are not automatically entitled to anything from him for you.

If you died, he isn't automatically given custody of the child. IIRC an unmarried father needs parental rights issued.

Talk to him. Maybe you can compromise. Good luck.

Oh, dear, Mhairi, I utterly sympathise with this, and to be very honest it was not the cement I thought was needed in our relationship. I did coerce him into marrying me, but we split up nearly 4 years later.

XH is a very nice looking man, very charming and sociable (shallow as a petri dish, but you can't see that at first ) and was actually a great philanderer too. I was desperate to get married as a symbol of his commitment, but it means little really.

I think by far the best thing to do is to work on your self. You can't make anybody stay with you (and I should know ) but you can make yourself worth being around.
Worrying begets negativity, which is very draining to be around. Happy, confident people are magnets. Best of wishes to you.

Thanks, everyone.

I don't know if any of you experienced this - but I have found that bringing a baby into a relationship seems to act like a 2,000 watt bulb - suddenly, every little flaw is illuminated! I think that my DP WAS my baby for a long time! I lavished all manner of love, attention, patience, forgiveness, tolerance and utter, 100% unconditional support on him - but now I've got someone else who needs that, and I want him to stand beside me as an equal partner in bringing up our son.

Yes, I DO want to get married. I want to be like my mum and dad, and my friends, and have a long-term commitment that weathers all the storms and is worth lavishing all that stuff on. But if someone doesn't want that with me, I've got no right to expect it. And I no longer am sure that I want that with HIM..!

The legal stuff - I'll get cracking on that right away. I had no idea that an unmarried mother had so few legal rights in the event of a separation - so I'll take advice on that.

The RC thing..? Oh well, my parents are fairly tolerant and modern, and although they didn't quite approve of me having the baby before marriage - they for sure can't understand why I'm not getting married now. And I've been pretending for the last 8 years that I was too liberated and sophisticated to care about stuff like that - and it was quite a shock to my system when my DS came along, and I found out I DID want that - badly!

But it isn't cement, or a sticking plaster, and a wedding won't cure an ailing relationship. I have to care for myself, and I have to look at the relationship.

'Love conquers all'? Well, maybe it doesn't.

Thanks, everybody. You've been a real help...

I hope it works out for you but no matter what you will both be parents to this new baby for life and that is a big deal.

Actually I think it can conquer all, if you just both stay in the relationship, be kind as you can, work hard, and never leave. Gor, it ain't hard is it? You'd think it was just plain common sense, so why can so few do it?

Maybe you need to stress teh legal implications with him. If something were to happen to you he may not get custody if someone else fights for them, for example.

To be perfectly frank with you I was in a similiar position until recently. Dp said yes, yes we will get married sometime in the future which I was very about. He is recently divorced and is not eager to get married again but ffs we have been living together for 5 years and have a 4 yr old dd and have been to hell and back for each other so it is not like we are not already committed.
So every time a Christmas or bday came along I was getting more and more disappointed and angry with him. How-the-fuck-dare-he-not want to marry me?!!!So I put it like this - it is very important to me that we get married for all the reasons below - but I wasn't going to beg him, if he didn't want to marry me I wasn't going to hang around being humiliated for years. Why would I stay with someone who didn't want to commit to me, particularly after all we have been through? He relented, we have agreed to be wed as soon as we can afford it (which probably won't be for a year or two) and we are now both much happier.

The difference here I think, is that dp knew all along that I did want to get married at some stage and yours let you know that he didn't. Good luck.

good luck Mhairi. Ultimately it's just a question of how much he is prepared to sacrifice his own feelings to support something that's important to you - and whether you can meet him halfway.

I didn't think of this when I originally posted, but perhaps when you speak to him, try to make it clear that you are not just in this for YOU. I think some blokes can assume that women are out to trap them into marriage purely for their own benefit.

But there are real benefits for him too.

As others have said, if you died there might be custody issues (depending on what you have in place already).

If you had a serious accident and fell into a coma he wouldn't be classed as next of kin and might have no say over what happened to you, whether you were on life support indefinitely etc. Your relatives would probably get to decide what happened at the funeral and what happened to your body.

If you died intestate he would be in a very sticky position. Even if you have sorted out your wills, he would still probably have to pay inheritance tax on your estate - this might include having to pay inheritance tax on the value of your shared house (depending on what you have on the deeds), tax on any life insurance you have to pay the mortgage in the event of your death (depending on how it's worded), and he might not be entitled to your pension rights.

Similarly while he could choose to walk away from you without a backwards glance and without paying much in the way of child support, you could also do the same to him - and I'm not sure what rights he would have over your child if any. (I'm not an expert in this area I should add - I only know what I googled when trying to make up my own mind.)

Anyway the key thing is that he has as much to gain from this as you - if not more.

I, too, have a similar DP.

Its not that I want the 'fairytale', but we have 4 DCs together, so we are committed.

I just want him to want to marry me.

Someone told me that its the biggest compliment someone can pay you, and that makes me feel rather that DP doesn't want to.

Plus, there is all the legal side of things too.

What is it with my DP? Is he hedging his bets? Incase someone better comes along?

Git. (Mine, not yours!)

I, too, have a similar DP.

Its not that I want the 'fairytale', but we have 4 DCs together, so we are committed.

I just want him to want to marry me.

Someone told me that its the biggest compliment someone can pay you, and that makes me feel rather that DP doesn't want to.

Plus, there is all the legal side of things too.

What is it with my DP? Is he hedging his bets? Incase someone better comes along?

Git. (Mine, not yours!)

Obviously feel strongly about that one! Sorry

My Dp and I have been together for 5yrs, have a DS 2.8yrs old. Originally, two years ago on Valentines Day, he was going to propose to me, but his Sis's bf was going to propose to her, so he stepped back and they got engaged and i got a box o chocs!!!! Anyhoo, he tells me this and I get very upset and he says he will ask me soon. A year and a half passes, and we were on holiday to San Fransisco and going to drive to Las vegas, I mention the fact that we can get married in vegas for $50 (no big deal to me, dont want the whole dress,flowers, big ceremony) but he says he wants his dad to be at wedding, so again Im left wondering when???? So now jus over two years has passed and I was going to propose to him on 29th Feb but lost the bottle, I dont think that women should HAVE to ask DP, its a mans job imo.

Still waiting, his sister is married now, 9mths, and now his other sister is due to be married in june.

It really infuriates me, as we have been together for so long and have a kid, where as they have been together for about five yrs collectively and have no children.

UNFAIR

I must say that even though I am married I don't think that it fixes anything in a relationship.
Many couples marry and still split, and I don't see what the big deal is.