Do you believe that abusive people 'always' stay abusive? Or change as they get older?

[Spooky2000]

My father for example has never hit a woman, but was an absolute bastard to them throughout his life. A typical narcissist, he would become the victim once the woman retaliated against his verbal/emotional/psychological abuse. He has drained so many women financially and emotionally over the years and during the relationship, gaslighted and cheated on them and then would talk about how 'wonderful' they are in front of them and bad mouth them behind their backs (and particularly if they ended things!).

The woman he's currently with, well they've been together for around 13 years. When they met she had a large, luxurious home, an apartment abroad, good pension from her deceased husband and now they live in a rented council flat as she's spent thousands over the years indulging his whims. She's nothing left.

This is a pattern for him. My ex physically abused 6 women before me and routinely cheated on them (and me). One of the things I've noticed in the profession I work in is that after a certain age, people are either dead, locked up, or have seemingly 'changed' their ways as they can't deal with the consequences (but this is of crime). But it makes me wonder whether there's a pattern there that's similar between the crime/abuse? That is, the criminality seems to stop but does the abuse and we just don't learn of it any longer?

Do you think abuse stops or continues?

have seemingly 'changed' their ways as they can't deal with the consequences (but this is of crime

I think that, because they rarely have consequences, they don't stop abusing - they just continue it but it might not be in quite the same ways eg they may no longer be able to attract cheating partners (or have the same sex drive or erectile function) so that might stop. They may no longer be able to easily attract women to use financially so that may stop. They may no longer be so able bodied or strong (or have as much aggression due to reducing testosterone)so physical abuse may lessen or stop. In terms of emotional abuse, exploitation etc..... I doubt it stops.

The other thing is how much they need their current partner and can't afford to lose them, can't replace them easily etc.

If they think they'll have real trouble replacing this partner, or they think they'll not get someone as comfortably off etc. they are motivated to minimise their abuse.

My sister's ex was a cheater, selfish, emotionally abusive, violent when challenged about his cheating etc. He was the main earner in the household. She had very little to nothing to give him financially.
Some time after they divorced he met a woman who has a home, holiday home, own business etc and apparently he's been with her for years. So I presume he was motivated enough to stop of limit the emotional abuse, cheating etc.

My BIL has a pattern similar to what you have described with your dad with the exception of his current partner. Current partner just goes along with everything he says and they don’t have bust ups or police involvement etc. I often wonder did he change or is it because she is from another culture where it stereotyped that women are subservient to men or because she has no family I our country and they live in an area where she has very little access to people of her culture. Maybe he is happy being the main character and she is happy being his cheerleader and that is a dynamic that suits them both.

The other way around I believe is very common where a man becomes abusive after having “good” relationships. This can come from an ABI or physical changes but also when his previous partners were equal but the new partner doesn’t have a career or status so he has no respect for her. There is terrible communities on the internet that brainwash men with misogynistic ideas.

I've only ever known one to change he had multiple strokes and it changed his personality dramatically

It's a sample of one, but my dad seemed to mellow with age and retirement. He was significantly nicer to my younger sibs than to us older kids, took a far more positive view of family life and showed more consideration towards my mother. It was only years after his death that Mum confided he'd really ramped up his abuse following retirement. He was vile to her.

I know some older couples where the abusive dynamic is obvious to everyone except themselves.

OP, you say some have seemingly 'changed' their ways as they can't deal with the consequences. It looks like your father's exploitation of women has pretty good consequences for him. Were you wondering if he'll abuse his partner more or in different ways, now he's spent all her money? Probably, at least until he finds another open purse.

I dunno, if you look at the Guardian's 2024 list of women murdered by men in their lives, several of them were in their 80s by their husbands also in their 80s.

Speaking from personal experience (of a parent), I'd say: yes, they can change, but you can't predict that change and that's part of the problem. What's more, when I say "change," part of what I mean that their target can change. When I was growing up the stereotype was that an abusive parent abused all the children (and so, as an unfortunate corollary, if only some children were targets, not only the children but even outside observers like teachers and doctors assumed the child must be the one to blame). I think it is now clearer (as I learned myself, as a child), that it is very, very common that one or two specifically become constant targets; and that the targets can switch around as everyone ages and changes. (This is precisely why abuse can be such a psychologically and not just physically damaging problem: it makes it seem even more as though the abused child deserved the abuse somehow.)

I think it's also somewhat true that many violent men do become less violent in late age; something about testosterone dropping. But don't rely on this. For us it worked both ways; my father mellowed a bit in old age and then grew extremely dangerous in very late old age, not only to his second wife but to his carers: police finally stepped in. (Did I feel somewhat vindicated? Yes. Did I and do I still grieve terribly? Yes. Did I ever manage to stop visiting him? No. Am I actually more angry at the people who, at his funeral, commented on how they'd seen him chasing me down the street, aged 8, holding a broken chair to hit me with, but who never did anything at all about it at the time, than in some ways I am at him? Yes.)

What I would say is that, because it's all quite unpredictable, you should always, always be very wary of someone with that track record. And you should never, ever think it's the victim's fault. And you should never blame the victim who cannot seem to accept that it's not their fault. People who are abusive are by definition not reasonable or predictable.

Everyone is capable of redemption, but it takes a lot of personal effort. Unfortunately most of us don’t have the strength or the motivation to become better people.

My father became a large beneficiary in the will of someone he met in the hospice while he was dying. It basically summed him up.

He left a large sum of money to my siblings despite being a workshy, alcoholic, drug addict the vast majority of his adult life. All from at least 3 inheritances - two women he got into relationships with and one distant relative that he somehow persuaded.

He never changed. In fact I'm told just a couple of days before his death he was extremely verbally abusive to a nurse in the hospice. A few people tried to play it off as the painkillers, but that was him all over the back.

That's terrible about your dad's current gf. She could have said I don't want to live together and kept her properties and money to herself. But of course these abusive men know how to scam women.

I think my ex fil didn't change because he wanted to, but because he lost his audience.

When he got old he had to sell his house due to massive debts due to drinking and gambling. He ended up a lonely man living in an absolute shithole with no 'friends' to show off to, or tolerate his bollocks because he couldn't afford to keep people on-side due to being skint. In his last year he professed a new need to reach out to his dgc who he'd barely acknowledged throughout their lives because he now had no one. Tough shit you horrible horrible man.

Personally do not believe that men change inside that much but on the exterior they may manage their behaviour better and learn skills to cope with anger etc.

but in my opinion men who have been abusive are always very capable of doing it again.

My dad was physically and emotionally abusive to my mum. She reached a point where she was gearing up to leave so he stopped hitting her and dialled back the emotional abuse. Over the years he mellowed and ended up totally adoring her and was devastated when she died. Mum went the other way and became quite nasty to him in her later years.

I think a person can change if they see it and want to change for themselves. I don't believe you can change for someone else. Health can play a factor too an abusive man in his twenties can yield a lot more power than a man in his ninety's

My ex was

@StrawberryDream24 "The other thing is how much they need their current partner and can't afford to lose them, can't replace them easily etc." - good point, I'd forgotten about things like this. Ageing can definitely impact upon a decision to stick around rather than look for another victim. 🤔

@PrincessFairyWren "Current partner just goes along with everything he says and they don’t have bust ups or police involvement etc." and that's another thing isn't it - the enabling of the behaviour. If you keep turning a blind eye, where's the incentive to go elsewhere? shrugs

@Garlicnorth "It was only years after his death that Mum confided he'd really ramped up his abuse following retirement. He was vile to her." - I've heard this quite often actually, including where one or both get dementia, before it's diagnosed. Prior to getting the disease, there seems to be a 'boredom' and therefore an enjoyment (I would say) at abusing someone else, and the time to do it sadly :( As for Pops, he's too old now and he's stuck there but I'm told often confides to my brother that if she dies before him, where will he live... 🙄So he's tapping out relatives now.

@category12 - exactly. I read that list and it was heart-breaking :( On the Justice for Women site, there's a number of women jailed for killing their partners, often after years of abuse that the police did seemingly stuff all about. 😡

My father is now 86. I have a half sister who has Downs Syndrome and when her mum (his ex-wife) died, she left her close to £300k in a trust fund. I hadn't spoken to my father in 10 years, and my brother got in touch to say he wanted to re-establish contact with me. First thing my narc-ex said was "he wants something". (And I thought "and you would know wouldn't you, given who you are!! 😂) I met up with him and he said he didn't know where my sister was living - and I wouldn't disclose the address. It sickened me, tbh. And I've always pitied his GF, but she signed up for it and went along with it, so on some days my sympathy wanes.

I don't think there's any pattern. Some mellow as they get older, some stay the same, some get worse. My father mellowed a bit as he aged. I sometimes wonder if it was simply that as he got older he wasn't as successful at finding women who were willing to put up with his shit so he reigned it back a bit. The best you can say is that the damage he caused reduced as he aged.

My grandmother, on the other hand, got worse. She was always a woman who was difficult to please but as she got older she just got nastier and nastier.

I personally think that abusive partners will always be abusive in any ‘romantic’ relationship that they are in at some point, however I think it all depends on their new partners situation / circumstances in terms of how long it will take until their ugly abusive side will show. Some relationships will take a few months, others may take many years before it reaches the same melting point with that same abusive partner (unless of course the victim wises up quickly and leaves before it’s too late).

Now I steer clear of anyone who shows the same red flags of being an abuser, and it’s almost the same red flags I hear in others life stories or sadly murders on the news. I am now convinced that these people all share the same traits and patterns - just a matter of time before it’s shows and escalates.

It's impossible to know. The general consensus is that abusers don't change.

Male abusers are misogynist - if they're going to change, they need to start seeing women as human beings.

I think becoming an abuser in the first place is a maladaptive coping mechanism for problems in the abuser's distant past. And I think that that maladaptive tendency militates against an abuser ever seeking and accepting the kind of help that could lead to change.

My ex was (and is) a psychological user and abuser. Having been with him for a very long time, I feel I completely understand the things in his childhood that made him become that way, but he has zero insight into it himself. In couples counselling (before I realised what a bad idea that was) he insisted he'd had a normal, happy, loving childhood and seemed genuinely surprised when I suggested that some of the things he'd told me were anything but happy and loving. But even placing hard truths right under his nose didn't encourage him to examine them in any meaningful way, even though he could be insightful about other people and their behaviour. When we finally split up it was in the guise of a trial separation while we both sought therapy. I went for years, uncovering deeper and deeper strata of stuff that needed talking about and sorting out. He went for a block of six weeks (because he'd prepaid for it) and then stopped because of the "diminishing returns". You're not going to bring about any meaningful change like that.

He behaves better towards me now only because he doesn't have the access to me that he used to. But he completely rewrites the truth about himself on a daily basis and tries it on in terms of trying to manipulate me financially or psychologically. The kids are adults now and starting to understand that he's more complicated and less likable than the fictional version. If he stops being an abuser it will only be because the opportunities for it are fizzling out, which I can see is quite similar to the way criminals burn out, to address the OP.