Article about flaking on social arrangements

[EmeraldRoulette]

I don't pay much attention to media but even I have noticed a lot of articles on this subject. I thought this one might be of interest.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/jan/07/flaking-out-of-social-plans

The summation of my feelings is the last line...

"It’s scary to think about where all this will end". I agree.

I know I'm just repeating myself (full marks if anyone can name that song, lol)

but if you are over a certain age, maybe 35? then a lot of these excuses don't really explain anything. So ....two working parents, working very long hours, commuting, lack of money....we've all been through that before, or seen our parents go through it.

I do realise that for younger people, this is the first experience of recession or whatever word we are currently using for cost of living crisis. (we could call it a bagel. I bet a few posters will recognise that reference.)

But previous generations seemed to value friendship, community and social contact. It doesn't cost a lot of money to have someone round for a cup of tea.

So I think the really big factor is the Internet. My mum is 86 and friends who are in her age bracket are massively influenced by the Internet as well.
Of course, there's some more logic in that, because that age group, people are more likely to be forced to give up hobbies etc due to physical limitations.

Before anyone says to me that I'm chatting on the Internet, yes, I am - mainly because most of my real life interactions have fallen apart. (Happily, I have some stuff going on now, but who knows how long it will last).

I realise that a lot of people are happier with society as it is now, but thought those of you who are pissed off at how hard it is to get commitment for a simple local coffee might be interested to read this.

I get the theory of finding something social that you enjoy doing and giving it a bit of time. The problem is when you can't find something that at least becomes enjoyable.

There was a thread I read a while back that had a lot of useful nuance (that I definitely lacked at the time!) and it was suggested that you're looking at this taking at least 2 years. That's a hell of a long time to keep forcing yourself to do something that you don't want to, possibly start to dread going to in the hope that it might pay off later.

Really interesting to hear everybody's thoughts. I have also heard about that seeing it as a long-term commitment thing but I agree. You'd have to pick an activity that you really wanted to do. But I used to go to creative writing classes - and I think with any evening class people will rush off afterwards.

@Getinther I definitely think there is a type of person who is just interested in going out and observing the world, but they are not necessarily looking to make a connection. Like the world is just some kind of live TV show to them.

@Mary46 I hope you had a good birthday. It is a shame that people don't send birthday cards anymore.

I think there's maybe an instant gratification factor at play here as well. Friendships require effort and getting off your sofa when you can get an instant dopamine hit from scrolling your phone - well, some people can.

It sounds like I'm going off topic, but I think the flaking thing essentially just shows that people don't want to have friends and the saddest part, for me, is that they are relieved that lockdowns somehow freed them of it. I know now that my lost friends aren't my fault, but to signpost my Taylor Swift lyrics clearly "something counterfeit's dead". I had no idea it was fake! How could all the good times and support in bad times come to nothing?!

I've heard it said that this is putting enormous pressure on marriages because people are expecting to get everything from one person.

thank you for letting me waffle. I'm actually trying to be on MN less but reading this in mainstream news is very striking. And it's been nice to hear your thoughts. 🫶🏾

Really interesting to hear everybody's thoughts. I have also heard about that seeing it as a long-term commitment thing but I agree. You'd have to pick an activity that you really wanted to do. But I used to go to creative writing classes - and I think with any evening class people will rush off afterwards.

Yeah I think it needs to be something you’d be happy to do anyway. I’d be happy to do a weekly dance or martial arts class, making friends would just be a bonus but not necessary for me to enjoy it.

I actually did a few creative writing classes when I lived in London in my late 20s, some one off workshops, others longer courses and although I’ve lost touch with most now beyond Facebook connections - I did actually make some ‘proper’ friends at the time that I’d hang out with outside of those gatherings. The group from my evening class met quite regularly after class.

It is difficult, I've had friends who I have drifted apart from due to their flaky behaviour, repeated cancelling at the last minute, not committing to plans and so on and in the end you just kind of give up flogging a dead horse then they get annoyed at me for not getting in touch anymore!

I do have friends still but most of them live at a distance and I don't see them in person that often, one is a woman I was at university with who lives about 50 miles away we used to see each other every month but its much less now due to other responsibilities and just the sheer cost of transport, going somewhere, eating out or even going to a cafe, we went into one unassuming cafe for tea and cake last month and were charged just shy of £20 for two teas and two slices of carrot cake! Even a few years ago it was so much cheaper.

I think it is hard now to make and keep friendships going through life, we move around for uni and work, we live in flatshares in the city when younger then buy elsewhere when we get older, often times moving into different areas. One couple has kids but another doesn't and they drift apart.

I find my town quite cliquey, after university many people live in flat share rentals in a hip part of town but as we get older and coupled up if we wanted to buy its only the people with generational wealth and help to buy that can get a house or a flat in that nice area and others like myself with no help at all had to move out to more distant areas in the suburbs to be able to afford anything and you end up scattered all over the surrounding area. Those who could afford to buy in town tend to stay connected and in the same friendship group because they see each other week in week out, they can do a quick meet up at the pub on a week night or an impromptu brunch on a sunday but if you want to arrange to see friends from a different area its a whole big thing to arrange in advance and so often it just doesn't happen and the next thing is a year has gone by and you haven't seen each other for months.

I am aware that in my day to day life I don't have close friends aside from my DH. We live close to his family and they are nice, we are all having dinner tonight for a Birthday but while they count as a social connection they aren't my friends as such. I have two sister in laws around my age and we get on fine but have little in common and I feel that most interactions are about them and the things they are interested in, their job and other friends and so I don't find that connection of a shared interest unfortunately as we don't socialise on our own together. I also don't drink which I think creates a bit of a barrier as so often people seem to want a drinking buddy, which is totally fair enough but I don't fit that bill.

Having said all that I am also guilty of not being the most forth coming, I do enjoy my time alone, many of my hobbies are solitary and I feel peaceful and calm on my own. I prefer to shop and see exhibitions on my own and often find that many people chat about all sorts all though a film or exhibition or concert which I don't really like. I've been known to go back to an exhibition and see it alone again because of seeing it with a friend who spent the whole time chatting about work or something rather than looking at the art and saving that conversation for after. I also am wary of people who expect too much from you, who need you as a kind of emotional tampon and call with their drama all day long, not into that at all.

So yeah I bemoan it but also probably part of the problem.

I'd never thought of costs. In my early 20s I was always getting the train to see friends and eating out as well as visiting DH when we were long distance. I shudder to imagine how much it would cost to do that now.

I can also see how costs would make the earlier stages of making new friends harder because you're going to want neutral territory for someone you don't know so well. That's usually paying for at least a non-alcoholic drink.

Yeah I think at that point you need to drop all expectation and just remember the good times so that you might be open to re-establishing the friendship later although I've had people treat me badly then been annoyed at me when I stopped chasing them to make plans like I was the one who ghosted them!

I used to love evening classes but so many in my area are now online only or so expensive they are out of the question. I also find that they aren't ideal for making friends either though as people tend to rush back to their own lives and friendship circles rather than go to the pub after.

I think even online these days there is less connection just people airing their views and then getting the hump when someone disagrees but not really engaging with what others are saying in any meaningful way.

That's another thread I remember, one about people remembering when there were all sorts of casual evening classes that they or their parents did. This was another popular piece of advice in the how-to-make-new-friends articles but I suppose you're more likely to go online for something like that now.

I think much of the advice in this area was very old fashioned when I was younger and is even more so now.

@WhatNoRaisins I think one issue is that even if they aren't online you travel to a location in the nearest city to attend then you go home which could be the total opposite 30 miles away from the women you met at the class who you got on with. Its impractical to meet friends from miles away when your life is so busy and you already have distant friends to keep up with. Ideally I'd meet a nice woman from round the corner to go for walks with or to have a cup of tea and a chat with and she might even exist but I'll probably never know or meet her!

What really struck me was how unfazed some people are about that. In my early 20s I signed up for two "local groups" where the definition of local turned out to be driving to various different towns all over the place. Even if I'd had my licence and own car then it was the last thing I felt like doing after work. I get that this is more normal if you're rural maybe.

As you say, you want someone actually local so you can start small, suggest a quick coffee at that nice place nearby.

@sabomep Emotional tampon! That's quite a phrase. 😱😂

Costs are something I totally understand and have to consider with trains and activities etc.

However, with the people who are extremely well off, it goes into the box of "yet another excuse." With the people who could come round for tea - they clearly just don't want to!

I think it's also increasingly common that people don't want somebody in their space as well.

@WhatNoRaisins yes, I think some posters - well meaning I'm sure - are offering very out of date advice.

agree with you both on the local thing. Any effort I make is local. I've been lucky so far but I'm painfully aware that decades long friendship hasn't lasted so not putting too much investment into anything now.

Very interesting thread, I joined a ladies social group in 2023. Its local and on Facebook with now around 1500 members, but at any given event there is rarely more than 8 people. I think we had around 40 at a christmas party but thats very rare. The events could be anything from coffee & cake, to a meal out to a music gig. It's been great for me and quite a few members who have embraced it, and I go to regular events now and I've met some lovely ladies of all ages.

But it does make you wonder, where are the 1500 members? They join a group for socialising but then never go to anything, I suppose you'll always get people that think they will but never end up doing so, but it's a lot.

I suppose it's not quite the same as flaking but it's still making a choice to not socialise when the opportunity is there

I just drop flakey friends.
then you just have normal ones.

I did a few courses at CityLit in London between 2013 and 2018, and it was very affordable. Their prices are still decent, but yeah even with them so many of their courses are online now.

My class in 2013 was 6-8pm and most of us did hang out after class but then I did another evening course a few years later and it was far less sociable and everyone just went straight home. It just depends on the group I guess.

I don’t live in London anymore anyway, but I can imagine with the rising costs of basically everything, people are even more likely to rush home after a class now.

Yeah it’s a very different dynamic, I was attending one in-person course in 2020 and the group gelled well and we had a fun whatsapp group going, but in the 5th week it switched to online when the pandemic happened and I wasn’t keen so I dropped out. I did do an evening course again with CityLit last year but yeah I definitely didn’t make any connections.

As I said, I don’t mind if it’s something I’m interested in anyway then I just focus on the course content, but I wouldn’t go to make friends as such as it’s very hit or miss with that.

There are definitely plenty of evening courses in London, so the advice on that is not necessarily old fashioned depending on where you live.

And although as I’ve said upthread that online courses don’t do it for me personally in terms of making connections , I know some of my fellow writer friends have good friends via online writing groups.

Thinking about it the people who wrote the articles on how to make friends probably tended be to London based. There was always this assumption that there's always an absolute plethora of different social activities to choose from which would make more sense in a city.

For me the local thing was about being realistic. Perhaps some flakiness comes from being a bit too ambitious about how much motivation you're actually going to have. It's easier to motivate yourself to go to the cafe down the road than to drive to a book club an hour away.

Went to the local social thing today (that my neighbour introduced me to). I went on my own today.

They were people that I've met before at this social thing, they seem very at ease with each other. I was the only person there on my own, not because everyone was in a couple, but because everyone was with a friend. There was actually only one couple there. I enjoyed it but I did spend it thinking - I still can't believe my old friends are gone. Might as will put it on my gravestone at this rate.

But it also struck me today that I felt quite nervous about going. I was really tired and in previous times would have stayed home but when there's not much in the diary, I grab the chances when I can. Whilst wondering...how did it end up like this?!

Nice people though so Im grateful to have found something.