DH's fabrications

[angsty]

Sorry it is long. I have been married to DH for twenty years, have DC, our relationship is generally good and he is a good man but there is something that is beginning to bother me increasingly, maybe it's me getting older and more irritable but I feel more annoyed about it than I used to. He basically comes out with (often quite elaborate) alternative accounts of things that are not true, although he clearly believes they are, it is not deliberate lying but his brain seems to construct scenarios that he remembers in a false way and that then fixes in his mind (and no, he is not dementing, he has always been like this and when I met him he was in his early 30s. It hasn't got worse, I have just got less tolerant I think).

It's not just when he's talking to me, and not just done for effect or a more amusing anecdote, which people do sometimes do in social situations. It happens often. And sometimes it really matters. When our (autistic) DC was very young, DH on several occasions gave false information about the development histories of his older children to medical professionals (eg saying that his older children had also been slow to speak etc, I checked with their mother and it was absolutely not true). This led to a delay in the diagnosis. When he took DC to a doctor more recently he gave an account of something having happened when I was out of the country, which was not the case, I was present when it happened. DH made it seem like he dealt with what was a medical emergency all on his own, when it fact it I was there and was the one that went to the hospital.

More mundanely, yesterday I was planning to book some flights and he said that a particular airline had previously let us down on a specific important family occasion by rerouting our flight, and so he didn't want to book with them again (it was actually a completely different airline, on a completely different occasion, between completely different cities).

Sometimes one can't prove that he is talking nonsense, sometimes one can (with the medical and airline ones I just showed him my diary and he had to admit he had remembered wrong). He can get quite difficult and insistent that he is right when you challenge him on ones that you cannot actually prove him wrong on, so I often just let them go, but I then feel annoyed. What would you do?

Thanks for the measured responses here that don't immediately tell me to LTB, which I am not going to do! I am not unhappy in my relationship or looking for a way out. I just feel annoyed by what seems like a ridiculous habit (and believe me I too have plenty of ridiculous habits) and am looking to tone down the annoyance. @Hotflushesandchilblains I believe I will have a conversation with him at a calm time, I don't want him to feel attacked or the point of conversing will be lost. He is "in his head" a lot, his job means that he spends nearly all his time alone (although he is sociable when given the opportunity) and unlike me, who will always listen to a podcast or at least music when I am alone, he never does and says "prefers to think".

I didn't start my diary because of him, I've only known him for 20 years. It's just a "thing" of mine that I have always done.

@MakingupMemories that is interesting to hear. Do you think you are neurodiverse? I wonder that about DH sometimes, given that DC is, and DH is also very dyslexic, which can sometimes be related.

I can't for the life of me work out why anyone finds a man like this attractive. How have you ever been able to trust him over the years, knowing that what comes out of his mouth has a high chance of being absolute bullshit?

I'm with you, life's hard enough without being partnered by an Industrial Grade Bullshit Peddlar. I don't know how you tone down your annoynance OP, and I don't think you should have to try.

My relative calls himself an accountant. He has no actual qualifications at all let alone accounting ones. But he has a girlfriend and there are always people who believe his untruths mainly because he can come across as plausible. He’s also outright lied or otherwise exaggerated to my dentist practice about previous hospital treatment. My former GP also questioned me about him.

The more time that is spent with him the more the cracks show.

@angsty that's so weird, I am dyslexic! I've never connected the two before. I probably am also ND, but totally undiagnosed. Some of my family are diagnosed with neuro diversity and I see bits of me in them, but I never really struggled in the way they did before their diagnosis, so it was never picked up/seen as an issue.

Though I do accept that my brain isn't to be trusted, so I screenshot/record/log everything so I can refer back to it. To do lists are my oxygen to survive!

Look up 'confabulation' - it can be caused by a number of underlying things (some behavioural/experience related, some medical/neurophysical), it might help to get a better understanding of the mechanism and some of the potential causes and see if anything in there sounds familiar given what you know about his background and any other medical conditions.

It might not get worse as such, but I would be on the lookout for any indications that he's becoming less able/willing to understand or accept rationalising or alternative explanations.

I have relatives with different lying issues, they all stem from childhood and compulsive lying is one a relative suffered from. Made up all sorts of things, nothing massively dramatic but quite unnecessary. Their self esteem was low and they had triggers that made it much worse.

I don't think this sounds like he is a narcissist or a manipulator or doing this to harm you or anyone else, he just can't help making stuff up. While it can be related to a disorder, it quite often isn't, it's just a learned behaviour.

It can get better with therapy and practise. He needs to understand there are consequences to his actions for example making stuff up about the kids could have meant the wrong treatment was given etc.

Sometimes, like my relative they go too far down the rabbit hole and then they have to maintain the lie, it can't be a nice headspace to be in.

I hope he can get help for it, my relatives spouse just stopped listening and that was no solution to the problem. Your DH is fortunate enough to have you.

https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/psychpedia/compulsive-lying

This is not just a ridiculous habit, this is a way of life. Calling it a ridiculous habit too undermines the very seriousness of it. You should not change your behaviour in an attempt (futile) to accommodate his.

Well, accountant is not actually a protected title. DH's professional job (which he does not do anymore) is actually a protected title, and he does have the qualifications to use the title. Just not the ones to do some of the roles he sometimes "remembers" having done.

Unfortunately my relative is not amenable to therapy and narcissistic people do not do well in therapy anyway. They really do think there’s nothing wrong with them.

That is really quite a strange one about the qualifications, as he must know and remember most of the time that he is not an accountant, or a fluent Arabic speaker, or whatever. Do you think it is some sort of hyper response in a social situation? I mean so that instead of saying “ oh interior design, how fascinating” he somehow jumps to “an interior designer, oh so am I”?

it’s not ok that my relative is deceiving people like this. I could not give a shit that the word accountant is not a protected title. He’s doing work for people who have no idea that they are being deceived and or otherwise used.

And when he has finished with them they get dropped like a hot brick.

neurodiverse? I wonder that about DH sometimes

I was starting to wonder that about my then husband in the latter years of our marriage, as his responses to some things were really not normal. Turns out it was just because he was feeling out of control or wanted an excuse to 'react' at me.

Interesting about the dyslexia @MakingupMemories . And how it relates to memory perhaps. DH can actually "forget" how to read if he doesn't do it a bit every day (well, not completely of course, but he will find it really heavy going and get very slow if he doesn't practice). He has also had to cover/deny his dyslexia most of his life in order to progress, I wonder what effect that has had on him.

@Gliblet I do see it as confabulation really. But not related to any progressive condition, just a part of his make-up/neuropsychology. Given that it has been stable over all the years I have known him (and before that according to his DC).

(If DH was on here telling people what I was like to live with he would be told to LTB too I have no doubt, I have real mental health problems that are not easy to put up with at times, never mind annoying habits. I am just trying to see what I can do to improve my responses to this particular issue with a view to feeling calmer!).

OP

I just caught that your DH is dyslexic. It can cause memory issues and he may have had a reaction to lie to cover up his dyslexia when he was a child and it became a habit

Not all dyslexics are liars, I'm dyslexic with short tem memory issues but not a lying issue, quite the opposite which can be just as troublesome.

@AttilaTheMeerkat he doesn't actually claim to be something he isn't, he claims to have memories of having done things that he would actually not have been allowed to do within that job, because he does not have the qualifications.

I am a bit surprised someone has not pointed out that, were he on here, DH would probably be posting about the know-it-all wife who constantly contradicts minor points of his memory and always has to make her point by whipping out her infernal everlasting diary

Why? That’s not at all what you’ve been describing. Is that how you think about yourself?

I would work it around to the point where you openly eyeroll in public so other people know you know he is bullshitting.

I would want to see how or if his behaviour changes in the face of open cynicism.

I can't see how you can change this. You can only change your response to it and if I were in your shoes, my main aim would be to make sure other people were aware that I was not buying into his version.

You might have to embrace and accept being part of a couple that people say, 'Brenda and Ernie are great but he is a total fantasy merchant'. There are worse things but in your shoes, I would struggle with it too.

He’s probably not actively lying he is confabulating. My DH does it all the time. He honestly 100% believes something happened the way he remembered it, till I provide evidence to the contrary.

He does also lie and obfuscate at times but it’s not the same as when the confubalation happens. The latter is about him avoiding shame/blame/accountability. Just your garden variety manchild bullshit.

I also believe he suffers unethical amnesia. In those moments he’s not actively lying or hiding anything. He literally doesn’t store memories where he knows he fucked up or acted immorally (he had a shame based unbringing and I think anything other than being a good person is very difficult for him to cope with mentally)

Hes quite the challenge but he has a lot of amazing qualities too and I try and just correct confabulation, refresh his memory on the shit he ‘forgets’ and teach accountability. I remind him that we are human, we make errors, we don’t have to let our entire self view collapse because of it. No need for a shame spiral of mental fuckwittery.

@greysonsgrowler that is an incredibly helpful post. I have to go now but will respond properly tomorrow.

My H is like this and it drives me crackers.

His mum is the same but his sister is awful to the point of absolute nastiness. She makes up hurtful and nasty stories about others, to make herself look good. I won't allow her near DC, it's that bad.

H recently told me that I had got a speeding ticket on a trip to France. I have had three in the 25 years I have been driving, the one before this was in 2023, and also in France. He doesn't drive, and so I have driven our family every year (we have been married over 25 years) on our holidays.

When he told me that I had received another speeding ticket, he followed it up with 'you get one every single time we go on holiday.'

Which is absolutely not true. We drive through Europe a lot, several times a year. And have done for 25 years. And I have received two in the space of the last 18 months. And one in 2002.

I have now lost all patience with this ridiculous behaviour and am calling him out on it.

I've seen him claim to have qualifications he doesn't have, to people who do have them and who know he doesn't.

There is absolutely no way he doesn’t know he’s lying in these circumstances, no way that he actually truly believes he has qualifications that he doesn’t have.

You can make up all the excuses for him you like, he’s a common or garden bullshitter.

How’s your social circle? I bet most people only put up with Billy Bullshitter because you’re so nice and they enjoy your company.

“Unethical amnesia” haha brilliant 🤣

Otherwise known as gaslighting.

I have a relative like this. On the spectrum, dyslexic. In his case the main trigger seems to be if he thinks he's going to get "in trouble", or he doesn't feel "good enough".

One if his parents was an alcoholic and it's apparently a common trait for children who have grown up around addiction. Because the addict is constantly lying and deceiving and swearing black is blue etc so the child has a very shaky grip on what truth actually is.