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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Holiday arrangements

21 replies

TitaniumTess · 02/01/2025 06:04

Hi, I've posted before. Abusive ex. Lots of coercive control. I asked him to leave in 2020 and he has never stopped... Shouting at the handovers, false allegations, you name it.

Court agreed contact in 2023. We now communicate through a parenting app. Every single holiday he has to change arrangements. I propose something sensible and he contests all of it.

Any advice around how I handle this? It stresses me out as I can't even get simple holiday arrangements agreed still and everything is a tussle.

Thanks in advance... I've started the new year jittery.

OP posts:

AlertCat · 02/01/2025 06:40

is the contact ordered by a court? Could you get legal advice?

Meadowfinch · 02/01/2025 07:21

Do you mean holidays away with your child, or do you mean school holiday cover?

My ex used to mess me around so I booked our holiday away, and just told him. He was already simmering with fury so I couldn't make him any worse. He had no reason to take me back to court because I always sent an email first asking for his holiday plans, which he always ignored.

Quitelikeit · 02/01/2025 07:24

Usually this is the point of court orders?

Go back and explain that you can’t even agree on holidays the judge can vary the order

Original poster

TitaniumTess · 02/01/2025 11:23

The court order was pretty detailed but even with that, he messes me around and keeps changing things.

Court was so awful the 4 times that I went, I've lost faith in the process to be honest. X

OP posts:

theeyeofdoe · 02/01/2025 11:57

As the PP said. Ask him when he would like to have the kids over the summer. Give him a deadline to respond. Ie.
Mike, which 3 weeks would you like to have the kids next summer? Their holidays dates are xxx to xxx. Please let me know by 31st January.

ignore any ranting/complaining.

if he doesn’t let you know, remind him a week before.
just a reminder to let me know which dates you want. We’ll be booking holidays the first week of Feb.

Original poster

TitaniumTess · 02/01/2025 12:08

Good plan. I see the logic thanks.

He then says that certain weekends are his and keeps chopping and changing the rules to suit him.. And bringing up lots of back history... Pages of wiffling on....

OP posts:

RandomMess · 02/01/2025 12:19

Do you stick to the exact CAO which you said is detailed?

Do that from now on, now swaps/changes etc.

Forgottobuymincepies · 02/01/2025 12:24

Buy 2 cheap calendars. Fill in the arrangements that suit your dc if you are the main carer for he whole year. . Hand him one. Don't negotiate. Once you start agreeing to swaps the calendar is pointless... And as you see he alters to suit himself.... If he isn't available for contact the dates you have fairly offered... Tough.. Unless court has spelled out everything ime that's all you need to do. You aren't obligated to let him runs rings round your /dc's regular schedule
..

Original poster

TitaniumTess · 03/01/2025 05:28

Thanks everyone. I'm feeling much better today. We've got one week of Easter each so I booked a holiday. He then says I can't have the Saturday as it's his usual weekend, ignoring the fact that the normal pattern stops for holidays. Then he picks and chooses what suits him.... eg he said that court said it was his Saturday and that the week starts Sunday. When I mailed the court they hadn't heard from either of us. He lies and then says that I'm causing him stress and anxiety when I ask for a court contact name so that I can also confirm the same... Then he writes pages of side wiffle, again remembering the facts incorrectly. I just want a week locking in when I've given him the rest of Easter and all summer to play with.

He is 50. It's like conversing with a 5 year old who isn't getting their own way.... :)

OP posts:

Flatandhappy · 03/01/2025 05:40

It takes two people to negotiate, leave him pissing in the wind if he is being difficult. Stick to the Court order, if it has been properly drafted it should specify things like “first week to mum in holidays x and y, second to dad, first week to dad in holidays a and b, second to mum”. Your lawyer has done a shit job if not! Don’t read his waffle, tell him you won’t so stop wasting his time. It’s all power games.

Original poster

TitaniumTess · 03/01/2025 17:01

Thanks - it's not as clear as that. It says things like 'one week each at Easter...' That then lets him play tunes and wiffle around when a week starts versus the normal contact pattern. He changes his mind all the time to try to suit him.

The next new dilemma is him asking to change contact arrangements in December so that he can take our son to Lapland. He also wants him to be able to have time off school. Last summer, he reported me falsely as a school governor and said I was a risk to all of the children. Complete bunkum.

The school policy says no to taking children out of school during term time..

So I can't do anything about that one can I.... I can't as a governor apply to take our child out of school during term time.. then swap time in the pattern with my ex and then watch The Head say no, us get a fine etc....

My ex is such an idiot sometimes. He's doing the whole 'you're spoiling it for our son and I'll tell him when he's older' routine.

OP posts:

TipsyJoker · 03/01/2025 17:07

TitaniumTess · 02/01/2025 11:23

The court order was pretty detailed but even with that, he messes me around and keeps changing things.

Court was so awful the 4 times that I went, I've lost faith in the process to be honest. X

If there’s a court order you just stick to it. Don’t make changes. When he messages saying he wants to make changes you say,

“Please refer to the court order regarding contact arrangements. Thank you.”And that it. You make the children available when he’s meant to have them and he can either take them or not. You do not need to make them available if it’s not court orders time. If he has a problem with that he would have to take you back to court and the court will want to know why he isn’t sticking to the court order.

If he gets abuse, report everything he does to the police and get incident numbers. You have to demonstrate a pattern of behaviour and eventually you will be able to apply for a non mol.

Learn the grey rock method and employ it. He wants a reaction. Give him nothing. Don’t make changes to the order. Stick to it. That’s why it’s in place, to stop this kind of thing.

hedgehogsinthehedgerow · 03/01/2025 18:08

Just say one factual boring sentence and repeat it once then stop engaging with him. Totally ignore any waffle and insults and just reply about dates as if it was a work colleague. He sounds awful.

Original poster

TitaniumTess · 03/01/2025 20:57

@TipsyJoker thanks. I've got 10s of police logs over 5 years. I applied for a non mol as he also kept coming over to me inside the school gate. He keeps getting girlfriends with children in the same class. He then uses that as a reason to come to school pick ups on my days.

Two rounds into the non-mol, the judge made it sound like we should sort it out ourselves so I pulled out on the condition that my ex stopped harassing me, through the app, through school and through reporting to authorities with false allegations.

It's a good point ref the Grey Rock method. Thank you. Xx

@hedgehogsinthehedgerow he has been awful. He has probably been worse since he left the house than when he was living here to be honest. He never really stops. Thanks. Xx

OP posts:

TipsyJoker · 03/01/2025 21:02

TitaniumTess · 03/01/2025 20:57

It's a good point ref the Grey Rock method. Thank you. Xx

@hedgehogsinthehedgerow he has been awful. He has probably been worse since he left the house than when he was living here to be honest. He never really stops. Thanks. Xx

Edited

But he’s not stopped harassing you so I would go back to getting a non mol. You have the right to live without harassment and he has no right to continue this post separation abuse. Report him. And keep going until you get the non mol. Speak to women’s aid and ask for advice and an IDVA to help you get the legal results you need.

Original poster

TitaniumTess · 17/01/2025 04:56

Hi all,

He is still saying that i can't take our son away for the week of Easter where I've already booked a holiday.

Again...comms going on and on. I'm primary caregiver. I've allowed him the holiday time that he's allowed. I've given him a free rein for the summer.

I just tell him, don't I?!

OP posts:

RandomMess · 17/01/2025 05:35

Will it be easy for him to keep your DC just before the holiday to mess up your plans?

I would tell iterate it fits either way the CAO for you to take him that week and you've given him the required notice and if he wishes to test the CAO to seek a prohibitive steps order.

Original poster

TitaniumTess · 17/01/2025 06:56

@RandomMess Thanks. It would probably involve us both wanting to pick our son up from school at the same time or me relying on my ex to drop my son off at the right time.

Can you explain the last bit please?

OP posts:

Original poster

TitaniumTess · 17/01/2025 07:02

@RandomMess I've Googled PSO. As in... Im not doing anything wrong so if he wants to test the system, he can etc.

OP posts:

RandomMess · 17/01/2025 07:17

Yes exactly let him waste his time and money failing to gain a PSO.

You could also write to his solicitor asking them to explain the CAO as he doesn't seem to understand it.

Only other option is back to court. It's a nightmare because he may well fail to return to prevent your holiday.

If he continues to not give agreement (which you don't need) then you could look at withholding contact just prior to the holiday as you have good cause to suspect he will fail to return. I guess then he will take it to court for you breaking the CAO but I suspect you just get a slap on the wrist and you can the seek to have the CAO explained to him.

RandomMess · 17/01/2025 07:55

I'm so sorry angry on your behalf that he is continuing to abuse you and has zero care for the distress it causes your DC.

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