No-contact

[MrsDThaskala]

Apologies for no details but know people on MN.

DH (and he is), is no-contact with his family. But he is also in the wrong. How do you cope with it? Wanting to be supportive as he's hurting, but he was in the wrong.

i am making some assumptions here but I’d suggest this is your fear response kicking in. Your anxiety that you will somehow be punished for what you’re doing. Toxic families control through three very powerful emotions: fear, obligation and guilt.
Yours are all kicking in right now and it’s making you uncomfortable. Your conditioned response is ‘I must make this better I must fix this we must apologise whatever it takes to take this discomfort away’
if you can, hold strong. It’s the only way to break this pattern. Back down now and you’ll live with this pattern all your lives.

Thank you Kalequeen. You're right. It's exactly what I'm doing. Thank you for taking the time to respond.

Hi all, we're doing okay. A few broken sleep nights, but coping. Our situation came up with the kids this week. They seem alright. They don't want to make contact either. I'm trying not to suggest they do or don't. In-laws haven't tried at all either. I'm wondering, is there such a thing as family therapy? For this kind of thing? I think DH needs it and I feel I do too, but not sure whether the kids should attend once. They witnessed the big fall out.

No to family therapy. Having therapy with toxic people does not work end of and the kids certainly do not need to attend that particular shit show. You cannot reason with people who are inherently unreasonable and or are only interested in what is best for them.

A truism to follow here is that if these people are too toxic/batshit or otherwise too difficult for YOU to deal with, it is the SAME deal for the kids too.

Your DH may want to consider seeing a therapist re his family of origin. I would suggest you read Toxic Inlaws by Susan Forward as a starting point, your H could read Toxic Parents by the same author. Have a read too of the Out of the FOG website.

Your role here as parents to your kids is also to protect your children from such malign or otherwise toxic relatives.

@MrsDThaskala so all those times his family were ribbing into him you did not stand up for him??? no wonder he is sad and angry!! this is most likely the straw that broke the camels back. you dont know how long in his life that this has been going on! and if your family are saying he is toxic then why are you not defending him? he must be feeling that he is being attacked at all sides with no one looking out for him. Not even his weak wife will defend him in front of her own family!!

I never said my family thought that. And whilst I may not have stood up against them and said anything, my actions by standing by him, and supporting him at every time say otherwise.

Update and looking for advice.

They called a week ago. We haven't spoken at all. The guilt trip. FIL is poorly. They want DH to see him. DH said his piece. Why he feels so upset. He seems okay, but doesn't want to go. The guilt! It's all consuming. How do you do it?

Why haven't they called before?
Why did they (also) miss Christmas messages to the children?
Why didn't MIL try to sort her own family out and deal with it?
I don't think he should go as it would upset him. Maybe not once there, but the build up will be too much. You have given good advice before, any more words of wisdom?

What exactly is wrong with the FIL?
This is textbook manipulation.
Them ignoring you at Christmas is shocking but sadly textbook and not surprising

Classic manipulation.
Think of it like this.
Imagine a dramatic play, you and your family are NOT the main characters.
They are.
The manipulation is for their own mutual display to each other and for their own friends and their social strata (if they have one).
They don't want to be seen as being nasty, horrible parents whom an adult child of theirs totally disowns.
Everyone of their friends will wonder why hasn't he come to visit? What did they do to him? What happened to cause such a disownment? And may distance themselves or drop them altogether.

It's both performative and serving their own interests, to turn this situation around, they now have to be the 'victims' of your callous DH who won't go to visit them in the FILs hour of need.

That turns the narrative on its head. You'll all be portrayed either subtly or not (by them) as the neglectful son/family members that refuse to visit. Whilst they now look like poor helpless ageing grandparents.

The game is 'who looks the better person' and 'most convincing victim of callous behaviour' it's not about reconciling loving relationships or how to reconcile strong emotional bonds and resolve issues.

Agree. But what can be done about it? Nothing?

Depends, on their level of antagonist personality traits and manipulation.
If they're mentally healthy individuals, there's a chance once they've calmed, that they can take accountability for their behaviour towards their son, your DH, with therapy then reconciliation is possible, if your DH is looking for it that is.

If they are highly narcissistic, self righteous and judgmental, there's no chance, as they won't ever allow self reflection, contrition or be willing to entertain being held accountable for their behaviour and actions.
So it's pointless, you either have to go along with their delusional world, being a puppet to it or manage them.

2 main options, you resume contact and keep it very limited. Short phone calls, short visits, tell them nothing of substance, it's called 'grey rock'.

People who stay in contact with antagonistic family personality types set their own internal boundaries (do not tell them your boundaries). They accept their family member will always behave a certain way, there's no real love their as these personality types don't really exhibit it. They want to control and dominate, they don't care about your feelings or that you've been hurt by them. So you stay in the room with them until a certain point eg. being devalued, judged, criticised, etc. Then it's 'I have an appointment I forgot, have to be off, bye!'
Or similar.
So you manage your expectations, knowing it's only a matter of time before they gaslight, devalue, manipulate, judge and criticise, so you get in and out quickly.

Lots manage these individuals accordingly, short interactions, don't ever tell them your greatest joys/achievements, etc. as they don't care about your feelings, it's just more grist for their judgmental mill.

Or continue with no contact, move forward with acceptance and grief.

(Not sure if I mentioned it already, but if you want to see a classic narcissist mother who rails against 'no contact' from a daughter, watch YT Live Abuse Free).

By the way, if you want to find out exactly who they are as individuals and which personality type they really are, just call them yourself and ask them quietly and calmly, 'what part do you think you played to cause this situation, what do you feel accountable for?'

If they scoff at the suggestion, explain that they feel entirely entitled to be aggrieved and are defensive to any suggestion they are 'in the wrong', you have your answer. Leave them to their own devices.

They're not worth having around and will long term do more harm than good.

If they, even begrudgingly confess to some accountability and express that they are willing to do whatever it takes to reconcile and understand why your DH feels as he does. And that they want to heal the rift.
Then there's a chance ...

You know them, which answer do you think they'll likely offer?

when i met my DH he was no contact with his dad for 26 years, but had some contact with his siblings. a few years in and he was contacted by his uncle saying that his dad had lost his wife (the one he left DH's mum for) and that he was lonely and low. I was a big family person and becuase of my own relationship with my parents i encouraged and promoted a reunion between father and son.

all was good for about a year, DH was happy to have his dad back in his life and dad appeared happy... until his dad met yet another woman, and here we are again ... dumped by his dad. and my DH warned me this would happen!

all i learnt from all of this was, its not my battle! i should not have got involved in the first place but i thought i was doing right by my man!

@MrsDThaskala
Responses below, sorry OP forgot to tag you!

There are great resources online discussing 'no contact', and I have found Dr Ramani one of the best on these topics.

All the best x

Very much appreciated. More than I can say in here.

If I was to speak to them, I'm very sure they would be of the camp that says "I can't believe he's doing this to us, we don't understand why he hates us, all we've ever done is help him, he's wrong to feel resentment"

So I see what my answer would be.

I'm also aware yet questioning, if they wanted him to come around- why haven't they reached out to me? I feel like they are blaming me too. Which is fine. I'm supporting him. Picking up the pieces.

I do feel for them too though. They simply cannot see their part in this. How he feels they have played siblings off each other, the guilt, the high expectations.

One thing I feel strongly about though, is that if something was to happen to his parents, he will feel guilty. It will be hard. Might not be soon, god willing they live for many more healthy years, but it will not be good if they don't reconcile.

In my head, I'd like to go the Grey Rock route, the shirt phone calls, peace, see each other when necessary. But at a distance emotionally.

I really will check out the websites and videos you've suggested.

I appreciate all you've offered. Thank you.