How do you heal post narcissist relationships if you cannot go no contact?

[Succumb]

So much stuff out there about needing to go no contact in order to fully and properly heal from the damage of living many years with a narcissist - or abuser. Can amount to the same thing, I know, but I'm wanting to pay respects to the awareness that the label 'narcissist' is bandied about more now than ever before, yet without formal diagnosis.

My ex comes every few days to my house to pick up our DC for a few hours. When he's not here announcing his presence in the loudest possible way(!), he's calling the children and if they don't pick up, he's calling me to fetch them on the phone to talk to him (I often don't pick up to be fair).

When he is at the door to collect, he's peering in through windows and shouting through the house to summon the child that isn't visiting in that moment. We can't even have a holiday without him insisting the DC call him immediately upon landing and FaceTime our shared hotel room before we've even had a chance to eat or unpack, reporting all week - virtually meal by meal - what we've been doing that day.

The sad thing is, I know I'd be interested in their lives if I didn't live with them, and probably would appreciate the knowledge they've landed safely abroad on a family holiday. But it's how to do it without it feeling like he's there with us, controlling and monitoring, so nobody can fully relax. Last holiday our youngest was fine until Dad called, and then was really upset and just wanted to go home. Not to see Dad, as he doesn't stay with his Dad, but just to go back to his own bedroom and familiarity. Even though life was hard when we were all together, he's often said he wishes we were a family still, as being together - while it's hard - is better than not at all. A friend asked me if this is because he feels safer with Mum around and the truth is that's highly possible but I don't know because he doesn't report feeling unsafe when away from me. It could simply be that children prefer both parents together, no matter what.

It's so complex. But as much as I want to facilitate the DC seeing their father and building whatever they can of a relationship with him, I find it so difficult to heal on a personal level because I get no time away from him. Not for long, any way.

So that's the background. But my question is this: how does a person truly heal from an abusive and narcissistic ex, when there is no chance of 'no contact' because they are dipping in and out of your life every few days? The court child arrangement order stipulates who collects and where from, and because the DC don't sleep over with their father, it's not possible to do changeover at school. The arrangement is 'little and often'; a few hours here and there, which is part of the reason I feel I can't come up for air. It's not feasible to go back to court to change the arrangement because the truth is it suits the DC and their well-being has to be front and foremost. They've suffered enough as it is and I'm not prepared to add to it any further by changing the set-up that suits them. It's also not possible to arrange for family and friends to be at the handover because it would take up far too much of their week, it would be unreasonable to ask that of anyone. So I need to find a way through. Is it simply a matter of time being a healer? And if so, then does it mean it's not true you need to go no-contact in order to fully heal?

Contact centre.

Learn the grey rock method.

When it come to holidays, don’t contact him. You should be able to go away for a holiday without having to contact him. You’re not answerable to him. Go on holiday. Block whilst away.

Get a parenting app for contact arrangements.

Go on to YouTube and search for Debbie Mirza. You’ll find lots of useful advice for anyone n recovering from narc abuse.

Is this still very fresh?

Have the children ready to go when he comes to collect them. Open the door, maybe a greeting, close the door. The same on drop-offs.You don't have to be mentally "there". It's as close to no contact as anyone could be when they share children.

Agree in advance two phone calls on a holiday.

Nurture friendships, hobbies, relationships with relatives and self - don't let him live in your head and he'll naturally become the past. An afterthought.

When you say I should be able to go away for a holiday without having to contact him, I am so surprised to hear this because I thought I had to. I am starting to see I still fall under his spell of being answerable to him and so do the DC. None of us are free! I honestly thought I was being selfish for wanting to have the holiday with NC, but I also can't escape the fact that on the rare times something better comes up and he doesn't make contact, the DC don't notice and don't miss him or make any effort to reach out to find out where he is. The only reason they text is because he's primed them beforehand to do so at his bidding.

We tried the parenting app but he just refused to use it so it became slightly pointless. He tries to use other alternatives and usually it drags the DC into it which I'm keen to avoid. But the YouTube is a great resource and thank you for that. I have never heard of her and had a quick look and believe it will be beneficial to go through in further depth.

It feels fresh! It also sometimes feels like we haven't separated and just like one person (the troublesome one) is often missing from family gatherings. It's the strangest thing.

I am so much happier and in many ways can see evidence of DC repairing slowly, but even with the best will in the world they'll never be ready at the door. It's like trying to stick jelly to the ceiling! I sometimes think they are literally voting with their feet. I can usually succeed with one but not the other, or only one will go at a time, and that leaves the ex to stand and shout at the door to summon them to him, and fill my home with his presence. I try to grey rock by not going to the door at all, but often in winter have to intervene to stop the door leaving left wide open for 10 minutes while there's a lot of loud performance parenting going on at the doorstep. From upstairs it honestly feels and sounds like he's in the next room and lives here, and it's every couple of days.
I like the idea of no communication but if we have to, restricting it to only two for the whole week is a really good idea. I do think he’d overrule it by priming the kids beforehand though.

In the end, a Narcissist needs something from you. You have to really, really find the inner block and not let him live rent free in your head. If he's priming the kids, it means it gives him something from you - he knows he can get at you. Otherwise, he wouldn't waste his time on priming chats and would barely make a phone call ever.

He will let you go completely when he knows that you mean it. He won't like to see you moving on, like a reminder of his own inadequacies, so he won't be around.

Every time you think of him, actively follow up that thought with something very unpleasant, like vomit or something like that. Until both become interchangeable in your mind and evoke the same feeling. With plenty of practice, that association should be lasting and strong and you won't see him ever as having place at your dinner table.

And redirect, redirect and redirect your brain space to actively fill all the gaps with other things/people and not leave any space.

@WhatYouPutOutComesBack

What you say about: "Say simply and politely you are overstepping boundaries and these are the new respectful rules" washed over me like cool water on a hot day! Thank you for helping me find the words to adequately shift my mindset to the right place so I can stand firm in a different way.

I read this through a couple of times and honestly, you know when you have a pain and then suddenly you realise the painkillers began to work and you feel the lightness of relief creeping in? Well it was a bit like that.
This is just what I needed to read and have never, ever seen or heard of before but will absolutely do it. Looking back, I can see I tried to do a similar thing by writing down some of the worst things he did to me and the DC, some of which involved the police, so that I would never be tempted to drop my guard while interacting and being grey rock as much as I could by limiting interactions as much as possible. But it wasn't enough! Your suggestion is something I definitely will practise because I could see that actually working!
I think so many things happen without us realising, and even now, I find myself thinking through his eyes, just like I used to when we all lived together. When you've made someone your priority in an extreme way (usually to keep yourself and other people safe, even if you didn't realise that at the time), it can be hard to switch it off. So when I was Christmas shopping for the dc, I saw something the ex would like and realised it's not for me to buy for him to enhance his life anymore. In fact, it's not for me to think about his thoughts and preferences or anything at all! Your suggestion will massively help this for me.
I knew coming to Mumsnet would be a really good idea! Thanks @QueenCamilla

I agree with using a parenting app and a contact centre. It doesn’t matter if he doesn’t want to use a parenting app. If he is blocked and that is the only way he can communicate with you, then he won’t have a choice. Don’t engage if he tries to communicate through the kids. Just repeat to the child tell dad to use the app. Eventually the message will get through.

If you can’t use a contact centre you can use a police station as drop off and pick up. You can go back to court to have this changed.

When dad picks up the kids key lock the door so no one can open it. Close the curtains. When both kids are ready hug and kiss kids before the door opens then send them through and close it behind them. When one kid isn’t going send one out the door and just close the door. Let him stand there and call out.

How does drop off work?

With the phone let the kids work out how to handle the calls. But you must block him so he can’t harass you.

Unfortunately this will probably make him worse, but putting boundaries in place will hopefully help long term. And once you don’t feel like you are help hostage by your phone and font door you might relax.

You are allowed to have no contact during a family holiday with your children.

If he won’t use the parenting app then he won’t be able to contact you to arrange contact. It’s as simple as that. You are choosing the medium through which you are contactable. He either uses it or he can’t contact you. Block him everywhere else. Send him a message saying from now on you will only be contactable through the parenting app. That’s it. He doesn’t get to dictate how he is allowed to contact you. That’s up to you. You need to start setting hard boundaries and don’t break them.

No contact during family holidays
Only contact about child contact
only through parenting app.

Block everywhere else and block any family and friends he might try to use as flying monkeys.

Learn the grey rock method and employ it. Communicate about child contact only and only through the app. And I cannot stress this enough, you do not have to justify your life choices to this abusive man. He is not your boss, he holds zero authority over your life, you are not answerable to him. All you have to do is make contact arrangements through the parenting app. That is it.

Do this and stick to it. If he tried to harass you in any other way, via setting up new social media profiles or emails, turns up at your home, etc. Report him every time to the police for harassment and post separation abuse. Then you can apply for a non mol if you need to.

On holidays, just text him 'All arrived safely - hotel is fine' and send a pic of the children once a day - a photo you'd take anyway. Maybe limit their phone use so he isn't calling all day long - and have them call him once a day in the evening for five mins, but take charge of the call - have it on Zoom on your laptop so you can say 'Got to go - got a booking at the pizzeria in 5 mins. Byee' and log off the call.

Otherwise, just grey rock any calling through letterboxes etc. If you react to it with totally flat affect it starts to be less invasive and your Dc may pick up on your behaviour and not dance attendance on him either. Never let himmanipulate them. If he's hassling through the letterbox while they are getting dressed or whatever, say calmly to them: daddy seems very excited to see you/daddy sounds very annoyed that you aren't ready but don't worry. Your needs are just as important as his wants, so he'll have to wait until you are ready, patiently or impatiently – that's his choice, not ours..