Toxic relative, grey rocking, now awkward?!

[Pinkmittens9]

Have a toxic relative, maybe narcissist but she seems to have v low self esteem, but only see her perspective, always the victim etc. Didn’t want to cut her out completely for a couple of reasons which would be totally outing, BUT needed to cut down contact because it was getting too intense and I was so stressed with all the drama. Started taking longer to reply and no initiating contact, and not sharing so much personal info.

In many ways it has worked really well. Less contact, I feel less stressed. But I’m annoyed at myself for hoping I could have best of both worlds - limited contact but those interactions being friendly. Now she’s clearly pissed off, not speaking at all, blunt replies if so, and it feels awkward because she’s still in my life but it feels hostile. I think this is just the reality of someone like this.

has anyone every just got to the point of less contact but not hostile, or is it just unrealistic?

(please be kind, the whole thing has been incredibly difficult and stressful!)

Depends on the kind of relative you’re talking about immediate family, IL’s, Step family? And why do you need to keep in contact? Why can’t you just step right out?

Would be totally outing to say, but I think eventually this will probably happen because I can’t bare the relationship how it was, and they seemed to have stepped back now I’ve distanced a bit

I have achieved this to an extent, with my late father and my aunt

it was too draining. My aunt doesn’t really communicate much but I’m ok with that, as long as I feel I’m doing the right thing and keeping some contact. It feels better to me than going full no contact, which would have upset me too much

You got what you want so why is it a problem?
Sounds like you did what you needed to do but what result did you actually expect? Grey rocking and/or going NC isn't easy

You can’t control other people’s responses to your behaviour. You seem to have wanted her to be happy you have less contact with her because that works for you, but she’s not happy about it. That doesn’t mean you were wrong to cut back on contact for your own sake.

What is your role in all of this?

Just be polite face to face, pleasantries, generic conversation. Nothing too intense or intimate. All your psychoanalysis of the relative seems over the top, hostile and projecting on your part.

I think I hoped I could have distance but also the interactions we did have to be a bit more friendly.

You can't grey rock someone and expect them to be fine and happy about it. I'm all for grey rocking as it is often the best thing you can do, ditto limiting contact overall etc, but even if the person was mentally and emotionally healthy, that would be a problem and woudl result in some sort of backlash for you.

The reality is that covert narcissistic behaviour (which I think is what you're talking about here) is driven by a fragile ego, a constant need to be the victim, and complete centering of self. If you are pulling back, that may well be working for you (well done) but it will NOT be working for this other person and she will be angry, frustrated and, of course, feeling victimised.

Yes this is how I feel, partly wanting to do the right then but also total no contact feeling sad

Yes that’s true. And I’ve always been the person who put up with all the crap so it’s probably more noticeable now I’m not. I imagine she’s angry. But that’s the toxic element - it’s all or nothing

Doesn't work like that.
IF this person is a Narc the one thing they want is attention, negative or positive. You aren't giving them what they need so they won't react well.
If they are just an arsehole then they still won't be happy about it.
Stay strong, its worth it

I appreciate this is uncomfortable for you but in the nicest possible way, this isn't their problem. I agree with one of the posters above who said that this is a consequence of you stepping back. Listen to your own advice, you can't have it both ways. You have stepped back and they are responding accordingly. If someone is less contactable and available to us then responding by stepping back ourselves seems entirely reasonable to me.

Thanks all makes sense. I’ve never had to deal with this before so trying to work it all out. It’s a difficult time of year with Xmas coming up and trying to navigate that which I think is what’s made me think about it more. Whether to see them or not over the Xmas period - and the outcome of that probably cementing how things will be in the future etc

Maybe you need to work on sitting with other peoples' discomfort, you aren't responsible for her feelings.

have a look at out of the fog site for further help if needed.

I am in a similar situation, giving someone the indifference they give me rather than running around after them. It's become actively hostile/tense although I'm not being rude, I'm just not really giving much of myself anymore.

When one person chances, the whole system changes.

You can't do much about it except ride it out... it's a big shift and will lead to greater peace, but it's hard. What I have noticed is that I have more energy for other things now and that is starting to pay dividends, so the bad relationship looks even worse now that other parts of my life are getting more oxygen.

You might notice that too. But it takes time. And you can't get drawn back in so there is also an element of grieving once you stop the pretence and pull back to focus on more positive things. It's sad.

Yes, I think this is key. You need to learn to tolerate other people’s discomfort, OP, and to recognise that their feelings are their own, and not something you need to take responsibility for.

The whole point of grey rocking is that you passively ignore their unpleasantness, don't rise to it, and don't let it affect you. Since their bad behaviour has morphed from one thing to another, then perhaps what you could focus on is not so much what they are doing, but your own reaction to it.

This is definitely it - I’m having counselling to try and move through it all. I definitely fine it very difficult to sit with other people’s uncomfortableness. Even though she makes me feel awful, I feel bad that I might be upsetting her. A mess! Thanks I’ll look at the website

Imagine you’re wrapped in a big ball of bubble wrap, happy inside it and can’t be hurt by the outside

Covert narcissistic behaviour thrives around people who are deeply empathetic and who are quick to take responsibility for other people's actions and emotions. In this case, it's even worse because of course, you ARE upsetting her. You can't hide from that so your naturaly empathy is in overdrive.

The cognitive dissonance of dealing with the fall out of these personalities is hard - on the one hand, their behaviour is completely appalling and destructive and toxic and you HAVE to distance yoursef. On the other, they genuinely feel upset/hurt/like the victim, often have genuine past trauma and/or MH problems and you feel desperately sorry for them. It's hard to hold those two completely conflicting feelings inside at once.

Oh great, in that case if you are in counselling anyway then lean into it, don't focus on getting through it. How does it feel to know that someone is pissed off with you and you choose not to resolve it or fix it? There is major potential personal growth for you here OP. Good luck!

Excellent post @OhBling

This makes total sense - so bloody hard!

You probably are upsetting them though. When people change towards us and we don’t understand why it is very uncomfortable and can be distressing.

People will try different things to get what they want. What they were doing before got them what they wanted, now it isn't, so they are trying something else like being abrupt to make you feel uncomfortable to reel you back in. When that doesn't work they will probably they will try a different behaviour. You have to stay consistent with your boundaries until they accept them - which could take a while.