I could cry (boundaries or lack thereof)

[Lucybeary]

Is there anyone else having real problems setting boundaries, with people that have problems and are sucking the life out of you?

My sister has always been like this but she's got way worse since she split with her husband. She did have a diagnosis of borderline personality disorder but she told me that years ago and she's not seeing anyone in relation to it. A relative of our's died and so I'm caught up in this thing of not letting anything happen to anyone else that I love. But my sister and mum are taking up so much of my time. My sister calls constantly, it's always an emergency or if it's not, then she's upset or something, always something I can't not be available for. So I'm constantly helping her. Meanwhile she's not helping with our elderly mum at all (who is manipulative as well).

Elderly mum wants ALL my time. All of it. She's not just been given it by me so it's my fault. She is deliberately doing everything to get me. She abused our dad before me and when he died she gradually and insidiously drew me into her orbit, while sister, who was more savvy about manipulators, kept well out of it.

Sister has made suicide attempts in the past, distant past but still. Two relatives have died. I got caught up in all this caring for others because I didn't want to lose anyone else, but sister and mother are manipulators and the usual level of kind support that you'd give a loved one is not enough for them. Sister doesn't want to break me though, but mother probably does deep down (she may not even know it, but she did the same to our dad, probably contributed to his health decline)

I know anyone reading this will have to take my word for it and won't know if what I'm saying is true. But I am desperately looking for ways to help myself. Telling them there's a problem won't work. Tried it. I have been looking for books, abuse forums, can't find anything. Can anyone help?

I know people will say just don't answer the phone, leave, stay away etc, but (I have seen a counsellor and this is what we talked about) families are like solar systems, you take a planet out of its usual orbit and the effects will be catastrophic. I need to do things gradually and in a way where I know there's help for them. Hard when neither of them want anyone else except me.

Anyway can anyone point me in the direction of books about boundaries or other resources? Thanks

This book isn't about boundaries as such, but I found it really helpful when dealing with a toxic and multifaceted situation 'We Women Everywhere'. It's written by Gillian Anderson (yes, that Gillian Anderson), and a psychologist. I am...not usually a fan of self help books, but this one really made me think and change my perspective on some things, and the exercises were helpful for forming good habits.

I’m not sure what it is that you want, OP. What do you want to change and what do you want your life to be like?

The only person whose actions you can change is you. There’s no point in analysing their machinations. You’ve made a series of choices that weren’t in your own best interests. Yes, childhood conditioning plays a part, but that can be undone with work. Think about what you want your life to be like. A harsh truth is that they don’t need you as much as you think.

The Stately Homes threads on here are a good place to start.

https://www.awesomebooks.com/book/9781444102208/teach-yourself-be-more-assertive-teach-yourself-general/used?msclkid=54ac4dd8a7371bfee6942a8c56851392&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping%20%7C%20UK%20%7C%20Used&utm_term=4586063004690718&utm_content=TS10-49

CallItloneliness, thanks I will have a look at that :-)

HardlyLikely, Really? If only that were the case. I am worried for sister's safety on a regular basis. If I truly thought I wasn't needed I would turn off my phone, I really would. There are other family members who could be available, if only to chat from time to time. If they did that would also help me switch off. Not challenging you here but I wish so much that they didn't need me, especially sister because she's actually nice underneath all this. Mum, well, different story.

I want sister to stop coming to me with her emergencies and if she won't, then I need to find ways of learning how to change my own behaviour (fear of further loss has led to this but it was gradual and with them exploiting my good nature, not blowing my trumpet here, it's what I've realised with the counsellor. Most don't exploit it, some do). At the moment if I am not available I fear I will lose her. Similar dynamics with elderly mum, though I'm less fearful due to her past abusive behaviour. Elderly mum uses every trick in the book, for example today she hardly spoke on my visit so I stayed longer because she only started talking at the time I would normally leave. One example of many tricks up her sleeve and I fall for them all constantly and am burnt out.

Frontroomroomjungle, thanks I've found it and will read :-)

It reads as if you feel emotionally blackmailed by both your mother and your sister and also that you think that it’s only you that is keeping them safe. I’m wondering…

What do you mean by writing that you feel that you will lose your sister?

Do you believe that it is only because of you that she is still alive?

Why did you stay longer when your mother gave you the silent treatment? Do you realise that you were rewarding her abusive behaviour?

What discomfort are you preparing to go through in order to achieve independence and self respect? Would that be worse than what you are feeling now?

Thanks for your reply. Lets be clear I have self respect.

I'm not here to defend myself, I have on a number of occasions in the past got my sister out of a dangerous situation. I am on hyper alert because no one else in the family is bothering. I am over compensating for that too. So I'm not really looking to see where the fault lies in me. Only to find ways to start to create change, but without anyone getting hurt and as the person actually in this situation, I know that currently they would.

I didn't realise I was rewarding my mum's abusive behaviour, I suppose I cannot believe that's what it was.

Also I fall for the tricks, she has a big bag of tricks and my mind doesn't work like her's so I don't know until after. Like tonight, now I see it. Then, I just thought she was being a bit inappropriate but she's old and doing crosswords, and not as aware of time as I am.

So, the discomfort I'm prepared to go through to get independence, well, I'm not prepared for someone to suffer or die. That's the underlying worry. I want them to be ok, but they are constantly communicating that they will only be ok if I am there for them 24/7. I know I have to make changes to that.

Many apologies because I was not intending that you should feel that you had to defend yourself. I’m not clear what you are hoping for from posters here and my questions were just that- questions. Not criticism.

My 2p on the situation is that once you start putting boundaries in place, there will be pushback from your mother and sister, it's rarely painless.

What could you start by doing? Acknowledge your sister's emergency and signpost her to someone who can help/offer to speak to her later once she's had a chance to contact the GP/crisis team/whoever about her emergency. She's capable, she just doesn't want to and to an extent you are enabling that behaviour (from a place of love, I'm sure). With regard to your mother, if you do choose to visit, set a time limit and go when the time is up. She can play games if he wants but you've got a click and collect order slot that you can't miss, bye mum see you soon.

Is there anyone in your family you can speak to, who may be able to support you? Because that is the other thing, family members calling you because Sister is distraught and you won't help, and Sister doesn't know what she's done to deserve this etc etc

I hope Stately Homes help, they're a knowledgeable supportive bunch.

A friend of mine tied herself in knots for years trying to save a family member from their demons, addictions in their case. It wasn't possible. What it has done is to create big mental health issues in herself, as a result of her chronic need to save other people.
Please try to break the cycle for yourself.

I assume you are not actually trained to deal with your mother and sisters mental health issues. Therefore, you shouldn’t be the one they come to in a crisis. You could actually inadvertently be preventing them from getting the correct professional support that they need. And even if you were trained, it would be unethical to work with a family member as there’s no way to have professional distance.

You are not responsible for your family members. They are grown adults. If they going to harm themselves they will. There will be nothing you can do to stop them. If they contact you with a crisis the best thing you could do would be to call the police and have them do a welfare check. This way, if they are indeed a danger to themselves the police will be able to escort them to a facility with trained professionals who can actually provide them with the specialist care they require.

However, I think they know as do you that their threats are an abusive manipulation tactic to get you to do things for them. If you are honest with yourself, you will see that too. The only way this will stop is if you stop pandering to their drama. If they contact you with a crisis, call the police and have them handle it. They will soon stop doing it if they know they won’t get anything from you.

You can still be supportive of your family members but you cannot be on call 24-7 to be their saviour. That will make you unwell. If you end up unwell, you’ll be of no use to anyone. You need to start setting healthy boundaries. I would suggest to go back to a therapist and specifically work on this. You might also want to work on your past trauma and grief from losing other family members as this seems to be a major driver in your behaviour.

I don’t think many people on here have experienced the hell that is a loved one with BPD. Everything is chaotic, unpredictable and more often than not ‘your’ fault, even when it’s clearly theirs.

Sorry OP but it won’t get better if you keep giving them what they want. BPD is a developmental disorder largely caused by childhood neglect, and much of their emotional state hasn’t developed beyond childhood. Thus the tantrums, the rage, and the irrationality.

There’s a subreddit called BPDlovedones that I strongly recommend, if only for solidarity. A lot of them recommend a book called Stop Treading On Eggshells. I haven’t read it, so can’t speak to it, but I can say that I understand how emotionally draining every day is.

This is really good advice @Lucybeary I ended up with a few people like you describe in my life. The reality is that early conditioning is very powerful and you have to learn to work against your automatic programming to make changes. My family is toxic in a different way to yours but ultimately the last line of @HardlyLikely post does really tell the truth “they don’t need you as much as you think”. The people who I started putting boundaries in place with pushed me out so fast it would make your head spin. That turned out to be a really good thing and I learned such valuable lessons from their behaviour. They didn’t need me but they made me feel responsible for them and then they used me to meet their needs. My family background primed me exactly for those situations due to early abuse which was not just tolerated but the abuser was excused and enabled.

The other thing to add with BPD is that some people with it state that dialectical behavioural therapy has worked for them. It’s often claimed to be untreatable - certainly my experience would indicate that no matter how many therapies the person with it goes through and thinks they’ve improved, as the receiving end it really feels like there’s no difference at all) - but if DBT works for some then all the better. Convincing your sister to go for it, however, is likely a different matter.

The problem with setting boundaries is you have to mean it and sit with the discomfort of the other person pushing back and guilting you to back down. They will always be able to manipulate you if you believe they will harm themselves and as you've stated you're not prepared to let that happen. You can't control what they may threaten to do. Other family members may be able to disguard that 'threat' which is why they don't get sucked in like you.

Are you able to afford therapy @Lucybeary because until you sort out your susceptibility to their manipulation you will always get used and abused? It's good that you recognise the manipulation but you need the strength to ignore it and act in your own best interests.

The Stately Homes thread is also a great resource because the folks on there have all experienced these issues with family. You have one like @Lucybeary , you can either dance to your own tune or be a slave to other people's issues.