Its an in laws one

[Utterlydrain3d]

So I've separated from my stbxh and am working on getting divorced. The reason is entirely stbxhs fault and he currently has no contact with dc at all.

His parents took this all very hard, both coming to terms with his behaviour and they got very afraid that I would stop them from seeing dc. I've always got on quite well with them and I've been expressly clear that I wouldn't want dc to lose any more especially when it's not my in laws at fault. I've told this to them both in person and repeatedly to fil by text.

They previously would have seen dc once a month or thereabouts and I would have made a lot of effort inviting them round for dinner and arranging to call in with them so they could see dc. They rarely ever asked for more than this. However, since the separation, they suddenly wanted to see dc more than once a week. It felt very intense to me and as a single parent juggling full time work it was putting me under pressure to have to host them so I only facilitated contact once a week. Fil would invariably request to come again the next day or the following day or find excuses to pop in. One week he was there 4 days in a row.

We recently moved in order for me to get a new job that will be better pay and hours and more security as a lone parent and they again, took this really hard. Fil sobbed over multiple visits and told me he was disappointed as he wanted me to stay in my old job and he would leave work to do my childcare. This would never have been something I'd consider, I've always found him a bit pushy and I sometimes have to gently call him out on things regarding dc - never anything major but enough for me to notice and to bug me. Since moving they're insisting on visiting at least once a fortnight (we're just over 2 hrs away) and I make a point of sending photos every single week and do facetimes, fil texts me every other day without fail. Recently fil has started demanding more photos of dc and it's starting to make me uncomfortable. I'm busy, I make plenty of effort with them and I don't get why they weren't this bothered with dc before now. Mil never asks. Ever. Also stbxh isn't allowed contact so I do worry that he's asking for photos on his behalf even though he's said he's not.

I really had hoped the distance would give me a bit of space from them naturally and I feel really torn because I want dc to have good gp relationships but equally I'm personally really struggling with it. I feel very anxious before seeing them because I don't know what fil will bring up and I try to keep everything very separate- I refuse to talk to them about my ex because I think that's better for my relationship with them if it's very separate- but without fail FIL will find a way to bring it up. I've been very clear and it's uncomfortable because he's doing it in a "I care about you" way but it doesn't feel like that so it's hard to confront him. It feels like he's once again stepping on my boundaries but in a clever way. My relationship ending has been devastating and was totally unexpected and I'm doing my best to look after myself so I can be present and show up for dc (under 3yo) and I'm in regular counselling but I don't know how to regulate myself better ahead of these visits and the constant messaging.

I know grandparent relationships are really important and I've no intention of having dc miss out on that, but something about it just feels icky and I can't tell how much is my own issues. Am I being unreasonable or is this overly intense?

You aren’t crazy. ❤️
But sometimes you just want to run screaming through the neighbourhood in your bathrobe because, well, other people.

@Utterlydrain3d and btw, there are no such things as ‘grandparents rights’ in the UK. They could try going to court if you refused them any access but that would be a loooooong way down the line, so give no thought atm. Just cut down contact and photos etc to a level YOU are comfortable with. You don’t have to say anything, just do it.

Like father, like son.

Both as bad as each other but with different end goals in mind.

I would tell both grandparents that since you’ve had to change jobs & move locations, they must contact you so you can facilitate any future visits. No dates and times are fixed (this will matter as the kids get older and start having their own social lives), and they get what they get. If they don’t like it, tough. This is all because of their own son.

Kids can live without grandparents. I grew up with only two grandmothers, both grandfathers had passed by the time I was born. I don’t think it made any difference to me.

You are under no obligation to facilitate any meetings. They are probably aware of that but it might be no harm to remind them of that.

If your mother is bending your ear about 'grandparents being so important' she's mostly thinking about herself. She's just protecting her own interests by voicing this narrative.
Grandparents have not turned out to be the most important people in my kids lives. A neighbour has grown in importance, my lovely school friends dropped away with their own families.
It changes over the years.

Great post.
Totally agree.

Being too accommodating will bite you in the ass.

THEIR son caused this.
You have had to move away.

You will regret giving them so much time.
Pull back now and tell them you are too busy.

Any bullying, block them completely and simply refuse to engage.

They have zero rights to your child.
I am a huge supporter of loving grandparents, but not bullying imposers who think they get to dictate anything.

Once a month visit.
Once a week is too much when you are not comfortable.

One picture when you have time.
One Phone call every week, every other week.

Do not get locked into an arrangement that will not suit you long term.

In a new place, a fresh start forced on you, you need the freedom to make plans on your weekends.

They will start to manipulate / bribe your child to ask you to stay with them - this will become harder as he gets older.

Put in the distance with his toxic family - look how thye behave and what the bred....you and your son don need these pollutants in your life. You have enough to do to recover and re-set your life.

Do not trust this family. They do not have your DS needs as a priority.

They are toxic, gaslighting and self serving. Trust how their actions are making your feel and respect your feelings. You can fade them out / put in the distance over a period of months if you dont want to take the bull by the horns. Learn to 'grey rock' (look it up) and NEVER leave your son out of your sight with them .... look what how the FIL behaves when his wife is out of the room. Do not give them an inch or and in on your life. If your DS is at nursey or school I would warn them as they are they type to turn up.

Even the once a month visit I would have outside of your home - at a softplay/restaurant/park for 2hrs max. I would not trust this characer in your home, He will be gleening info about your life / routines etc. Put them on an information diet - then they ahve less inroads to overstep, trip you up etc.

You need to talk to your mil.
The fact she's on your side is good.

She'll either be able to try and pause fil behaviour or support you more.

Unless he's domineering to her too.

Unless he's domineering to her too.

He most likely is.

The MIL was repeatedly unable to respect OP boundaries when she was post-partum - a professional had to intervene - how extreme is this.

Honestly your MIL cant help you. She is a trap and a risk.

Having been up close to a situation like this, the ‘lovely’ son was a career criminal, the father had been one but had yet to be caught, the mother just smiled and did what she was told. (I am hoping in your case the crime was for some sort of financial gain rather than an abuse case!)
This man is most likely the reason why the son has turned out the way he has.
They are lucky you entertain them at all. People like this FIL spot vulnerabilities and exploit them.
You have already been so strong to move away and get a new career. You hold the cards here and not him.
The constant requests for photos is weird. Children don’t change that much in a matter of days.
It is about control - the more they are around, the more they can keep an eye on what you are doing.
You have to be really strong because you are not dealing with people who have your best interests at heart. Thank God you didn’t stay and let the FIL look after your children.
These people want to dominate your time so you can’t build a new life for yourself, including new friends.
Don’t let them win.

Facilitate one visit a month. Never unsupervised... Update them once a week at best. A court would see this as over and above your obligation which is none..... They have no rights. You are allowing a relationship to develop that wasn't there before the split. I would worry they will start demanding dc alone. And let their ds see them. Blood is definitely thicker than water. Get in with sorting out your new life. And stop pandering to fil. He is a bully.

I also agree with all future meetings outside your home.

Once a month max at a soft play centre.

Keep this man away from your home.
They as a family are not to be trusted.

You have got to tell mil what you’ve said here about fil. He’s controlling you and spins very manipulative. Don’t tell them they can come every weekend, I’m appalled someone suggested this! Crazy!

Thanks for all the replies I'm taking everything on board and considering. I agree fil could be domineering mil but equally I could see the dynamic being mil saying she's sad about seeing dc less with no ill intent and fil feeling its his 'job' to fix this for her so he tries to domineer to get it sorted. But I also don't want to be naieve that that may not be the dynamic as fil clearly acts alone at times and I do find it 'icky' that he's stood by his ds as most parents would have walked away after what he's done as mil has. Given the nature of what happened I never allow unsupervised contact with dc because the risks around their son are so high. At the moment he knows where we live but we will hopefully move and then I will meet them out and about.

and I do find it 'icky' that he's stood by his ds as most parents would have walked away after what he's done as mil has.

That 'ick' is critical. Attend to it. It is your internal alarm system screaming at you - but it is being dulled by social conditioining to be nice & polite or FOG.

Maybe your FIL is the same and your DH? I am thinking its something seriously sexually inappropriate/illegal that maybe FIL believes he/his son is entitled to?

Given that they were only interested once a month when with your ex, I'd say its exactly how you fear it and your FIL's upping the level of contact has all been about him passing the information on to his son - your ex. It says a lot that he can't see his DC's, and he learnt that behaviour growing up most likely - the apple often doesn't fall far from the tree unfortunately. Also, your MIL not being involved shows that she has a pushy DH, who is probably doing all this to aid his just as nasty son, who's behaviour he probably doesn't see as that bad because he probably does the same to your poor MIL. They can turn it on for other family while being shit to immediate family, so it's no surprise if you haven't seen it in his treatment of you.
I'd say once a month max, weekly texts max ( it will all be just being passed on to his DS).