Are narcissistic people just extremely insecure?

[Warmfairylights]

I think I have a narcissistic family member. I know they had quite a traumatic childhood with the death of a parent at a young age. They are just really difficult to form any relationship with, like they will abandon you for attention from a stranger or a person they might have spotted who they used to know. You might be talking about something really important and they just disappear off the conversation onto something completely irrelevant but will be about another person, maybe that person bought a new house and how brilliant that is.

They seem to always need attention and need to always been seen. They need loads of people around them, will talk to people all through the night, will lead all committees and jobs. They literally need to be seen at all times. But you can’t rely on them for anything that you need. They change subjects and will interject into conversations people they have spoken to and what they have been doing. I never have any idea of who these people are and I’m not interested in people I don’t know. They literally know everything about everyone and everyone is a possible supply of attention, it never ends.

I'm not sure that's narcissism, given your examples - more likely, lacking in self awareness, self absorbed and disinterested or just an all round crappy person.. However, in answer to your question with genuine narcissists - i don't give a shiny shit in working out their inner mind. If you've been victim to one, you'll recognise my trite answer. Knowing why They are the way They are Will not make a jot of difference. They're incapable of change. They inflict untold damage, pull other " flying monkeys "into their campaigns of hate and are vile, loathsome individuals. Yes, their ego is fragile and yes, they've probably had damage caused to them in their childhood years but rather than seek help, they push their anger outwards. The only viable thing you can do is run.

What you describe sound like doesn't really indicate narcissistic traits or personality disorder.

There are other conditions or personality traits that could potentially be behind these behaviours but try not to pathologise people for having traits you dont like or unusual behaviour.

Just manage your interactions with them to suit you or if appropriate, encourage them to seek help. Speculation about the 'why' doesn't matter.

Ok. I’ve just never met someone so disinterested in their family but so interested in what absolutely everyone one else is doing.

That doesn’t sound like narcissism.

People love to use the term narcissism for just about anyone who doesn't behave very nicely. Please don't do this.
From your examples, this person isn't narcissistic at all. Just very unpleasant.

Narcisissm, like any personality disorder, basically means that this person has an extremely damaged personality structure and is incapable of existing in the world without drastically damaging themselves or others. To use that term on someone just because you don't like them very much seriously underestimates those who have become victims of real narcissists.

Just keep your distance, live your life the way you want to. Don't give this person too much attention.

I’m pretty sure the narcissist I know believes his own lies. He’s not insecure just blind to any truth that doesn’t match his own narrative.

eg. He has dc but thought ex wife had her new boyfriend over so drove to her house in a rage, drunk. Police caught him and took his licence (went to court etc). His version, he lost his licence because his evil ex orchestrated things so that would happen. His own daughter called the police after trying to hide his keys but nope, not his fault.

Ah ok. Definitely don’t have much to do with them anymore as they are too self obsessed to have a relationship. They come and talk about what they have done, who they’ve helped and them them them, they don’t have any interest in us so naturally don’t want to be around them. I thought narcissist because of how obsessed they are with knowing everything and how they think they are always right and how amazing they are because they do all these things for strangers.

NPD stems from trauma and very low self esteem yes. High ego that needs constant feeding but very low self esteem and no solid sense of self. Generally low empathy and low remorse with no qualms about lying/gas lighting. They can be extraordinarily manipulative and consider themselves clever for it.

Narcissistic people see others as pawns in their life, people are useful and high value - or not. Everything is about themselves and their needs - it's like a survival mode to protect themselves. They are often well liked at a superficial level because they can be very charming and friendly, they want to be liked. If you are considered a 'high value' person then you will probably never see their other side, if you're low value and play the game you'll be ok - but cross them and they won't think twice about cutting you to shreds or out of their life.

Narcissism rates may be as high as 1 in 20 people, but MN hates any suggestion that anyone may be a narcissist even more than they hate the suggestion someone may be autistic. I have no idea if your family member is a narcissist but it sounds like they have some traits so I would just keep your distance.

What makes you a high or low value? I consider us to be low value as they have little interest in us.

Waiting on the inevitable drip feed that the relative is op’s MIL.

Op doesn’t like her in laws and they don’t like her but instead of getting on with her life, she creates repetitive threads about them on MN.

Sorry it isn’t my in-laws. I’ve only my FIL and he is a nice man.

I didn’t want to say as I feel bad but it’s my older brother and his wife. Mainly his wife. She is such a strange person and my brother has changed so much. My younger sister has also noticed.

They’re just not interested in you and either aren’t good at concealing it, or can’t be bothered to conceal it. I appreciate it’s not particularly pleasant to be around, especially if you’re someone to whom family is NB purely because it’s family, but it’s hardly a diagnostic category.

One thing I find weird about narcissists is that they can’t stand their own company. They constantly need to be around people to distract them from whatever inner thoughts they have going on. They look down on people but at the same time are so incredibly needy.

Please make a distinction between traits and conditions/disorders/diseases

A trait can be something like having an inflated ego. It's part of their personality. Like f.e. laziness, or sloppiness, or being easily irritable.
Having a certain trait doesn't make this person diseased. Narcissism is a disorder. It's not just a trait you can use to describe someone.
That would be like saying someone who is sad, suffers from the psychiatric condition of clinical depression. Or someone who likes to have things organised therefor had autism or OCD. Just don't do that. People can just have a trait without having to clinically diagnose them with very severe conditions.

But to get back to the issue.
You don't like these people.
You have distanced yourself from these people
Why on Earth are you so invested in who they are and why they are this way? Can't you just let them live their life the way they want to, and let them be?

So she isn’t actually family? Honestly, OP, while I know some consider ILs to be their family, other people just regard them as something akin to colleagues, only in your life because of who you married. I’m actually fond of the two of my SILs I see most of because they live close by, but I have very little patience with blow-by-blow accounts of exactly who is currently feuding with whom in the extended family, and will change the subject when possible.

Have you ever been close to your brother?

We were all very close and now he hardly goes anywhere. He has somehow lost his car and she only has a car. She is very controlling and all they talk about is bloody strangers.

The person I know diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder doesn't sound like your description. He talks incessantly, barely covering his disdain for what you or someone else is saying while he tries to interrupt with his point (clearly not listening to anyone else) and will congratulate himself after everything he says, as in "Yes you see, I'm right. I'm always right." He can't hear how it sounds at all. Supreme confidence that he knows better about every subject matter, including feminism. Believes he would be the best at things he has never even tried before, etc.

So you think both your brother and his wife are narcissists? With respect OP, get on with your life, see them as little as possible and be thankful you haven't got real narcissists in your family.

I think my mum is a narcissist. She was an utterly adored only child . She is completely incapable of normal conversation, everything was about her work in local politics, even with complete strangers .i have always found her overly confident rather than insecure.

Totally egocentric, I think, and completely self-absorbed. So much so, that they are entirely incapable even acknowledging the feelings of anyone except themselves. They are the centre of the universe, around which everything and everyone revolves.

They don't sound like a narcissist but they sound annoying.

Avoid them?

Narcisissm, like any personality disorder, basically means that this person has an extremely damaged personality structure and is incapable of existing in the world without drastically damaging themselves or others

I agree with most of what you say re overusing the expression but really not this. You say any PD means the patient is incapable of existing without drastically damaging themselves or others. That is simply not true.

Obsessive Compulsive PD? What will they do, scrub you to death? Schizoid? Avoidant? Histrionic Even? Even ASPD folk can present in ways that are relatively harmless and overlap considerably with shitty behaviour from people who are not diagnosable with any PD. Remember, like pretty much any psychological or neurological condition there is a spectrum. It is possible to be diagnosable but not severely so.

I agree with others, that isn’t narcissistic behaviour.
A narcissist behaves like they are the only person that exists and everyone else are puppets on a string to be played with. If you don’t behave exactly as the narcissist wants they will just cut the strings and as you collapse on the floor tell everyone else that you were the worst puppet they ever had and will smear you so bad that everyone else thinks you were a possessed doll.
Being on the receiving end of a narcissist can absolutely break you, they don’t just leave you feeling irritated like your family.

That's more like it.