My sister thinsk our mum is toxic...I don't...what to do as she's being downright evil...

[Pheebe]

OK, I realise this thread could be oopen to some severe flaming but I really need some geniune advice and opinion please as I don't know what to do...

Some background (sorry this is quite long):

My sister is the youngest of 3 (I'm middle) and has always been an innocent. By this I mean she's by nature quite a needy person and very much a dreamer. She's very creative and in the last few years has established a brilliant career for herself at which she works very hard. BUT she's always made erm less than sensible decisions, has always had serious money problems and has been involved with a man who was married initially, went on to have a 2nd child with his wife then when the wife eventually chucked him out she let him move in with her. He's a drug addict and has been in and out of prison through all this and is bascilly a total shit although she doesn't see it that way and forgives him anything. Through all this my mum has always been there for her, supporting her financially when 'he' has taken every penny she had and trying to support her emotionally every time he's hurt her. He's recently come out of prison after a long stretch and after 2 weeks announced he didn't want a relationship with her anymore and now he's clean he just wants to enjoy himself (they were planning on getting married and having babies this year and we all thought that finally they might actually make a go of it). Obvously this utterly broke my sister to the point where I had to go and get her and bring her to my house (1.5 hours drive away at 11oclock at night) as I was scared whe would try to kill herself. Anyway, that has all apparently blown over and been forgiven and they have both started counselling but my sister has now turned on my mum saying she's never been supportive of her relationship, has parented her toxically and is to blame for all thats bad in her life. I cannot get my head round how she can forgive this shit of a man anything but seems so so angry with our mum.

Mum is over 70, has had her fair share of trials in her life and has, imo, only ever tried to do her best for all of us.

TBH I think my sister has often manipulated my mum to get what she wants and is now saying my mum is to blame for making things 'too easy' for her.

I love them both so much and it hurts deeply to see them fighting like this. Any advice on what I can/should not do would be welcome.

f'in hell.
i have an aunt who manages to make the world guilty for all her failings too. she has been estranged for some years now.
nowt as weird as families eh?

dont know what to suggest. id be tempted to spell out the cold hard truth to your sister ands let her decide how she wants to take it from there. if she decides youre both evil, well... im not sure theres anything much you could have done about that anyway.

its NOT fair on your mum. my aunt sent really truly nasty letters to my nan which broke her heart and contributed to her death. whatever my aunt and your sister has been through, as adults, they need to take responsibility for their OWN lives and stop hurting those around them.

I would tell your sister to **ing grow up and take responsibility for her own mess.
Sorry, but if one of my siblings turned on my mother after her bailing them out so many times I would go nuts.
She probably trying to blame your mum, so she can justify in her own mind that its not her DP's fault (ie, she still deluding herself)

Oh dear. Thats is a very sad story.
I think she's trying to blame her mum for her own choices. The counseling may be churning things up- I've known people say and do some bizarre things whilst in the middle of a counseling process. I hope the counselor is good - some can be a bit iffy.
It does sound like the boyfriend is the toxic one here.
PS.I am the third of three and the creative one and I have to say, I don't think that's relevant, as I'm in the most stable and happy relationship of the three of us.

Thank you all so much, I was starting to think perhaps my sister was right and there was something more to it than I was seeing. I DO want to tell her to grow up and stop bullying my mum, because thats what I think she's doing.

I will try and find a tactful and nonconfrontational way to do it. Being blunt with her has never worked as she sees it as an attack and becomes all defensive which defeats the object.

I hope you're right and perhaps it is the counselling process thats churning all this up and hopefully as she works her way through whatever problems she has she'll begin to see things more clearly.

Its definitely her boyfriend thats the toxic one, he's basically a nice bloke he's just an idiot and not at all good for my sister who needs (and craves as she herself has admitted to me) stability and someone to look after her (neediness again)

Bumping this for the evening shift...

I guess what I'm still struggling with is...is it possible to toxically parent (god I hate that phrase) one child but not another? Thing is I have very different perceptions of events and attitudes etc that my sister regards as 'toxic'. I see them as positive and caring parenting, especially now I'm a mum myself (my sister isn't). I do think they've both allowed the 'parenting' to go on too long (my sister is now 35! ) but what parent could sit by while their child gets evicted or doesn't eat because they ca't afford to go shopping...

It sounds to me as though your sister is trying to blame your mother, in fact do anything, rather than face up to the facts about her relationship. But that may come later. But it may be true that she has a very different relationship with your mother to your own.

I think, to answer your second question, that it is definitely possible for two children from the same family to have very different experiences of parenting - even to the extent of one finding it toxic and the other not. It's certainly true of me - my brother and I have had very different experiences of our family. It would take pages to explain here but after three + years of therapy I can see this and know how and why. But some families can end up with a 'scapegoat' child, who gets the blame for being difficult and ends up saddled with all of the families' problems - that's my scenario and quite a common one I think.

It's very hard for you to be stuck in this position, but one question is why your sister has made such bad relationship choices? I can only go by what you've said, but they don't sound like the decisions of someone who has had a settled and secure family life. I know it must be a shock to you, and feel like a terrible attack but can you see any reasons why she might feel that way about your family? This doesn't take away from your feelings about having had a good childhood, but hers can still be very different.

I'm not sure that a parent could be "toxic" to one child and not another, but I do think different children react in different ways to the same parenting.

My BF at school and I were the last 2 in our class to find out about FC. (Aged 9 I think) I remember being a bit sad that part of my childhood was over, but my friend was (and still is) absolutely furious with her parents for lying to her for so long. Perhaps not a great example and certainly not on the same scale as your sister's issues, but my point is that I saw that my parents had been doing their best to retain the magic of my childhood and my friend, who had received the same parenting (in that respect) saw it as a massive breach of trust.

It could all be to do with the counseling. A friend of mine went c. 18 months ago because of difficulties in her relationship ( and life generally) To begin with, it seemed to make everything a whole lot worse, but you can really see the benefit to her now.

Mmm I began counselling sessions with my x but dropped out as I was scared of what might crop up during the course of them . Your sister may be going through a 'phase' of counselling pain but it's not fair of her to inflict this on your Mum n the meanwhile. I suspect the counsellor might say the same thing! I guess you can toxically parent one child and not another - everyone's experiences are different after all. It sounds to me as though your sister may be lashing out at those she knows she can rely on to see her through things - if she turned on her dp like this, he would probably walk away. I'm not a counsellor but it seems as though she might be pushing the boundaries of what she could get away to see what sort of response she gets.

Thank you again, interesting and thought provoking responses

vonsudenfed you say: they don't sound like the decisions of someone who has had a settled and secure family life. Far from it, our childhood was very settled, we lived in the same house throughout, our parents are still happily married and my sister and I spent much of our time together, same friends etc. I would have said if anything she was a very indulged child, I can cite numerous things that she was allowed/allowed to do that I ahd not been. I bear no ill will about this now, it was years ago etc etc but she seems to latch onto what are imo stpuid small perceived slights to attack my mum

lacomtesse you say: if she turned on her dp like this, he would probably walk away. That is absolutely true. She completely mothers him and doesn't seem to even try and make him take responsibility for himself. She's currently 'giving him space to find himself' he's just had 2 years in prison to do that! and has also said that she'll never ask him to promise not to take heroin again as its too much pressure for him !!!FFS!!!!

I want to say all this to her but at the moment I just know she won't hear it and will just see it as another attack...I really don't know what to do for the best

I would be tempted to give her a metophorical kick up the arse and leave her to it to be honest.

Go and give your mum a hug and some flowers as she is probably feeling devastated.

She is notabanana and its breaking my heart. I've had my moments with her too, what daughter doesn't but having kids of your own gives you a whole new perspective. I'm making every effort to make sure mum sees our dss as much as possible as she absolutely dotes on them

You look after your mum.

You only get one and I would give anything to have had one.

Your sister sounds like a spoilt brat tbh.

One last bump...

I would stay well out of their argument. It is something they need to work out between them.
I would advise you not to take sides here, but if you love them both and want to keep a good relationship with them both, then be there for the both of them when they need to talk, just don't offer them your opinion, if that makes sense.

To answer your question about whether parents can be toxic to one child but not the other. Yes that is possible. Favouritism, my little sister does that with her children. She constantly picks fights with her son and tells him off, whereas her daguther can do nothing wrong.
I am the middle of three girls. My big sister started telling everyone she met that our parents were toxic when she was a teenager.
My little sister the same. Yet they keep going back for more in the hope that one day they will be loved for who they are, and will get the respect they deserve from our parents (it will never happen by the way).
I did not see them for who they really are until i had had two children and was around 32 years old, and no longer have any contact with them.
We are all different, and if for example the two of us were in the same place at the same time looking at the same postbox. You might see a bright red postbox and I might see a dark red postbox.

I completely agree with maisemor. ITs impossible for us to know what is going on without knowing all the facts, and to do that we'd have to have grown up with you.
Its quite possible that your sister is the toxic one BUT on the other hand very often the toxic person is not the person who "acts out". I mean, your sister is obviously sabotaging her life regarding personal relationships, and I　just don't know- I've seen so many cases where the toxic person comes out smelling of roses and the real victim is the one that looks like the perpetrator for all that is bad in the family.

So, as I say its very hard for us to tell and to give you the right advice. So the right advice is for you to stay out of it, I suppose. Don't take sides if you can help it.

is it possible to toxically parent...one child but not another?

Yes it is possible a parent will prefer one child to another and treat them differently as a result but it really doesnt sound like this is the case here.

She wants to blame your Mum because she doesnt want to think any blame lays with the t*at she loves.

contentiouscat I think you've hit the nail right on the head there

It just makes me so so sad that my sister seems to have forgotten how wonderful our childhood was. I know, I was there with her, we spent almost all our time together (only 2 years btwn us and we were very close)

I'm just hoping that whatever she's working through in her counseling she will come out the other side with the scales lifted as it were...