How should your child deal with bullies without lashing out

[DamselinDistress24]

I know this is more of a child development question but those boards tend to be very slow so please forgive me for posting here for advice

If your child can't avoid a bully (easily or at all) how would you advise them to deal with a bully to prevent them lasing out?

My child lashed out at a known bully today.

I had anticipated a possible problem and told her if the other child was annoying them or they were getting stressed to come to me and we'd use an excuse to leave.

I checked on them twice and they said things were going well.

10 mins later I found out they'd pushed the other child ...after the other child did what they often do by repeatedly correcting them (totally unnecessarily, based on a silly rule in her own household), insisting my child was wrong and should do what she's told by her etc. resulting in a two way scuffle.

(I think my child pushed first, it's not 100% clear).

I have told my kid she just can't get physical, even if someone is hassling or annoying her.
She got very upset (genuinely) afterwards and when I was trying to talk to her about it

I've told her to walk away. But I suppose it's not easy in some circumstances.... They were in a small upstairs wendy house. She clearly lost her temper before she had the wherewithal to leave it.

(She is just turned 7).

Does anyone have any advice on how to deal with this?

Background is that the child has a Mum with a very traditional, authoritarian style of parenting ...and seems to copy her Mum, and want to be her Mum, as such, in social situations.

The child was pointed at by a little boy recently at a party who said "that's the girl who was bullying me"..

Her mother also told me that parents had been told her DD was bullying them by their kids, but that's not true ... That what they meant was that her DD didn't want to play with them when they wanted to play with her, that that wasn't bullying and that the parents clearly hadn't clarified that, they hadn't questioned their kids, they had just taken "bullying" at their word without checking.

I obviously received this bit of info with scepticism that I tried not to make too obvious.

The other child is 6, not far off 7.

*Her mother also told me that parents had been told her DD was bullying them by their kids, but that's not true ... That what they meant was that her DD didn't want to play with them when they wanted to play with her, that that wasn't bullying and that the parents clearly hadn't clarified that, they hadn't questioned their kids, they had just taken "bullying" at their word without checking.

Sorry, just to clarify- this conversation had nothing to do with the little boy at the party accusing her of bullying him. Nothing came of that. I don't think her Mum even heard it.

It must have been another child/ren that I know nothing about. I'm presuming at school but I didn't ask.

Honestly, a taste of their own medicine is no bad thing. If it’s children of a similar age/size, it generally stops things in their tracks.
It might not be the fashionable thing to say but in my experience, letting the kids deal with it themselves is the best way. Maybe next time the bully will think twice. At the very least the kid knows yours is no pushover.
If a child lashes out, other people notice, and the worst bullying is the secretive, snide comments that girls in particular seem to do. The victim never says anything and it spirals, and usually no adults in authority know a thing about it and don’t believe it if they do get told. If there’s a fight, it’s obvious.
DS was targeted by a kid for a week or so before he snapped (a bit older, but still). A good shove back and some insults got DS a detention, but that kid has never gone near him again, where others seem to have been endlessly hassled.
I would keep an eye on things, but no need to keep on at your child. They handled it, leave it there.

It's the shutting them down that I'm asking advice for.

And I suppose how to help my child keep hef temper in such circumstances, which she clearly lost today.

The other little girls ... I don't know what they said at the time. My child did say they banded around her after (they all came into the house together and left the other child in the garden) but at their age I don't think they're very effective or skilled at shutting things down. And the other child is close with one of them. Though weirdly that one was at the head of the "delegation" telling us what happened (and did not pitch it flatteringly to her best mate).

Honestly I wouldn’t mind my child thumping someone even if they were just name calling. Quickest way to stop them doing it again and it’ll earn her respect. Bullying is more damaging than detention for hitting a bully

Firstly they are very young, and being bossy at 6 is not unusual. Secondly you need to be clear that lashing out physically in response to a verbal disagreement is not okay. If someone hits her she can push them, but you need to give her some verbal ammunition (eg "You are not the boss of me" or a simple "Bite me") for verbal arguments.

Also try not to get sucked into the situation so that you start seeing it as more than it is. They are 6 years old and they will squabble, and you don't need to pathologize it beyond that.

Thank you.

I'm worried about future playdates etc though.

Today, from previous experience (though absolutely no physical stuff .... In saying that I've just remembered the other child pushed my child down the top of a slide on a playdate a while ago, she was grazed, another child actually told me about it. I let it go at the time though I was uncomfortable) .... I was on guard and couldn't relax ..and the that happened anyway.

I'd worry it will happen again sooner of later, because I honestly don't think that the other child will change. It's her character and the way she's being raised. I think she'll not be able to stop herself.

Also I will lose a significant social outlet for my child and myself if I withdraw from the group.

Why are you making your child socialise with a kid you consider a bully?

your Child needs to walk away and inform an adult (you!) who should speak up

Just got the sake of clarity, she wasn't name calling.

She comes from a household where her Mum has a rule that no-one is allowed to say the the word hate. They are not allowed to say they hate anyone (fair enough) or anything (ott imho).
Even in regard to e.g. a food.

My DD stated she hated a food in conversation, the other child told her she shouldn't/is not allowed to say that, she's not allowed to use the word hate, she's not allowed to say she hates a food etc etc. This went on, with my dd disagreeing, until it escalated into an argument.

What we'd found out what had happened, the Mum returned to the "Mum space" and stated this ("we have a rule in our home that we do not use the word hate, we don't say we hate, we are allowed to say "I don't like" but not hate. I have told my DD that if she says she hates eg a food, then other people who like that good may get upset" etc etc.

Personally I’d watch the kinds extra closely for a few weeks and step in immediately, telling either child to behave.

That's what I asked her to do, but she clearly couldn't/didn't when a situation cropped up.

I had hoped they would split into groups ....as they often do.

That child usually pairs off with another child who is quite ... I don't know how to express it, but they suit each other.

I'd hoped my child would end up socialising with the other kids who are less strident and competitive and bossy etc. But for whatever reason, they all ended up in a playhouse together at close quarters.

This lady and her child have become one of only 3 others who regularly participate in a playdate group I started ages ago. She has good sides, of course. She's now very central in the group and myself and my child will lose out on everyone if I leave it because of her child.

I think i agree , i have 3 kids all now finished school i have told them all to never cause trouble but should they ever be assaulted to hit back harder and i will deal with school etc.
Thankfully none of them have ever caused trouble or been bullies ,one out of the 3 did hit back harder after being hit by 2 boys and wasn't bothered again by them,he is strong and actually told me he could have really hurt them but didn't go any further , i was proud of him for not losing control.
There are too many examples on here of bullied children whose schools and parents have erred on the 'lets talk about it approach' when sometimes a sharp thump/wack back will end any bullying much quicker.

@DamselinDistress24 then you expand the group, socialise with the other kids, don't go to her house (maybe park/soft play/your house instead), get your DD in other groups and clubs, invite different children over etc.

Otherwise, you're just setting up your kid to fail. Not just that, you're teaching her that it's ok to put up with crap for fear of being ostracised /out of the group. You're not teaching her what good friendships are and how they should look like.There will be enough drama with that kind of stuff later on, no need to start learning that lesson this early.

You don't seem to like the kid or her mum .

The Mum has good sides, as I've said above.

The kid is a kid .... She's just copying behaviour. (She does seem to have a domineering, bullying side that her Mum doesn't see but that's Mums perhaps (?)).

I have tried to expand the group but as another Mum said after a long while "this is it really, isn't it? Yourself, myself, and x (this Mum) and y (another Mum)".
I did have a big crowd attend an egg hunt but that was quite a lot of work and no-one has reciprocated since.

These people are the people who make the effort, this Mum makes a lot of effort...which makes this situation a bit sad.

I have set up a few other individual playdates but I'm sort of doing all the work and they slide very easily.

(My DD has a particular friend ATM, I set up a playdate that took a month or more to arrange. The Mum has other kids and was ok with dd's friend coming with us on her own while she took her siblings to stuff. It was the easiest and most relaxing playdate I have ever experienced.....but the little girl is not very available (weekend only and even then ..) and I really don't want to put all my eggs in one basket.

Not just that, you're teaching her that it's ok to put up with crap for fear of being ostracised /out of the group. You're not teaching her what good friendships are and how they should look like.

Sometimes friendships involve thinking people are talking crap but letting it flow off you and not arguing lol

The people I know with the most active social lives are like that ...very stoical and tolerant about people. Good at thinking "whatever" and just appreciating the good points of the person.

OP, you need to teach your daughter how to communicate in that situation. That girl will neither change or stop in the way she communicates. She is simply copying the learned behaviour from home & expecting all the other girls to fall in line and do as she says. This is where you need to teach your daughter how she should react.

I think it’s time you start to widen your daughter’s social group. Invite girls individually from this little group for play dates & sleepovers. This will build on relationships & if the other girls mother has the nerve to ask why you haven’t invited her daughter over then just tell her straight up your daughter is a bully.

If you widen your daughters friendship group that girl will not know the other girls so cannot muscle her way in. By strengthening individual relationships and adding more friends your daughter will be so much happier. It will require considerable effort from you as you will be the one having more play dates/sleepovers.

Better this has happened now where you can deal with it & support your daughter before the girls move onto Secondary School. You just need to equip your daughter with the tools to deal with bullies like her.

Good luck 🤞🏼

This lady and her child have become one of only 3 others who regularly participate in a playdate group I started ages ago. She has good sides, of course. She's now very central in the group and myself and my child will lose out on everyone if I leave it because of her child.

But do you think this group may be off-putting to other parents? It all sounds very intense and tight knit and over thought. There is no need for all this networking - the children make their own friends if you stand back and let them.

No, I think there are many other reasons other parents have not become regular members of the group e.g. working patterns, childcare patterns, previous/existing friendship groups (we are all Mums of first/only kids, we were all living elsewhere before they started school here) etc.

(The bully's Mum does have quite a strong personality I suppose, it's not impossible she might put some ppl off, I don't know.

One of the other two has quite an eccentric personality and is vastly above most people in terms of financial circumstances, home etc ... I suppose that might put some people off).

But I honestly think it's more due to the things in the first paragraph.

Invite girls individually from this little group for play dates

I don't think the two others will do individual playdates.

One has become fast friends with Mum of bully.

The other, I don't know why, but never seems to be a available for or accept individual playdates. I've asked a couple of times and it's not come off. Though often due to work.
I think she makes sure she has this one afternoon off and attends the weekly playdate. (She works weekends and could be working anytime during the rest of the week).

You keep calm and go and find a teacher or another adult.