I need a sense check please - abusive ex and contact

[Cryingatthegym]

I'm not sure if this is the right board for this, but I need outside opinions because exH is making me feel like I'm the crazy & unreasonable one as usual. It's long but I'll try to be brief.

Separated from abusive exH around 6 months ago. I have 2 toddler DSs with him, and an older DD from a previous relationship. It's worth mentioning that exH has been arrested for being violent towards me and we've been referred to social services (by Women's Aid and the police) more than once because of concerns about him.

DD has always gone to her dad's on Thursdays after school and come back on Saturday afternoons. This has worked for us for many years. When I left exH, I asked for the same contact schedule for the boys. This was to make sure the kids stay together and so our routine could stay the same.

He initially agreed, so the boys are currently picked up by him at 3pm on Thursdays, and I collect them from him at 6pm Saturdays. ExH doesn't work on Fridays, so he has Thursday afternoons/evenings, all day Friday & all day Saturday with them. I work full time.

Pretty soon after separating, he started pushing for contact during the week. Specifically, he wants to pick them up early from nursery on Monday and/or Tuesday, keep them for a couple of hours, then drop them back off with me. This then turned into potentially keeping them overnight on Monday, although that was only in response to one of my points below.

I've said no. My reasons being as follows:

• it would be too unsettling for the boys, who are very little and barely understand what's happening. The youngest in particular has been really struggling to adjust to the changes of going between two houses.

• it would be separating the boys from their sister midweek, when I've explained how important it is that they're all at home together as much as possible.

• although they're with me for more days, I feel like I get very little quality time with the kids, especially all 3 together, because weekdays are mainly getting ready/coming home from school/nursery/work, with very little opportunity for fun stuff, especially in winter.

• I don't want to see or communicate with exH during the week, or any more than I have to. I'm quite frankly traumatised by the abusive relationship, and seeing him is extremely difficult and triggering for me. I've been diagnosed with PTSD and I'm having therapy and also in a DV survivors group to deal with this.

He is saying that my reasons are illogical and I'm being selfish. In response to that, I added up and showed him how many hours he has with them (29 per week), compared to how many hours I have (28 per week), not counting the time when they're asleep or at nursery. I also pointed out that he has more quality time than me, because he has 2 full days off with them, whereas I only have one.

I've suggested that if he wants extra time with them, they could do a half day at nursery on a Thursday, so he can pick them up earlier. His work is flexible and would allow for this. But I've stood firm in saying that his contact time with them needs to be continuous, and not back and forth.

He's accusing me of using the children as pawns, interfering with his time with them, not 'fulfilling my obligations', and 'refusing his rights as a father'. He's threatening me with court and making vague insinuations that I was the 'real' abuser and the 'real reason' I don't want to see him is because I can't face that fact.

I need to know if I'm being unreasonable or not, because as usual he's making me feel like I'm going completely mad. It feels like he just wants to be in control of the situation and get his own way, and I'll be in the wrong whatever I do or say, simply because I'm not backing down or agreeing with him.

It would also be helpful to know if anyone has any experience of how these sorts of disputes go if they get to court, because the prospect scares me a bit.

Thank you to anyone who makes it to the end of this.

You're NOT going mad you're being abused!
Stick to your guns give come this far!
I don't have any experience of this but keep pressing on xx

*you've

Thank you. He makes me so anxious.

He’s being abusive. He’s using the children and contact arrangements as a form of post separation abuse. Stick to your guns here. If he wants to take you to court, let him. You can put your very reasonable case to the court. You have evidence of his abuse from women’s aid and social work. I would advise you to learn the grey rock method and only communicate via writing about contact arrangements. This can be through a dedicated email or parenting app where messages can’t be deleted. Keep a diary exclusively for noting any abusive interactions from him. Also log any behavioural changes from the children preceding or post contact with him. He will prob start trying to use the children against you. I’m sorry to say that but that’s what these types of men do often. If he threatens you in any way, harasses you in any way, report him to the police. Report everything. Get incident numbers even if no further action is taken. Log them in your diary with the details. You’re looking to prove a pattern of abusive behaviour should you need to go to court. I would also inform the nursery what is going on so they can support you and most importantly, the children. They will also be able to note any behavioural changes around contact with their father. They will also be prepared should ex try to use the nursery to back him up or raise concerns with them about your care of the boys.

You are not going crazy. He is gaslighting you and using DARVO. Look it up. He is a nasty piece of work.

You should read this book

https://www.docdroid.net/2fZmz40/why-does-he-do-that-pdf

I think you should contact women’s aid again for support. Also, check your employers policy on supporting staff experiencing domestic abuse. You might want to give them a heads up what’s happening so they can support you and be prepared should you need time off to attend court in the future. Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that but unfortunately I’ve seen many men like this over the years I’ve supported female survivors of domestic abuse and they all seem to work from the same playbook.

Document everything, use grey rock method, get support from women’s aid, report all abuse to police and read the book I’ve linked. It’s free.

You are not going mad. What you suggest makes sense. Tell him to take you to court, then you can tell the court your concerns, how he’s been abusive and SS should be backing you up

Bet you he doesn’t do it

If you can evidence the abuse then you'll be fine, OP. As in hard evidence. Unfortunately that's the way the family courts operate. My ex-husband was incredibly coercively controlling but 50/50 custody from when the children were very small. It was my "punishment".

Thank you for the replies. I've already read Lundy Bancroft a couple of times @TipsyJoker but thank you for sharing, it's such a good book.

@Youthiswastedontheyoung - would evidence of the abuse be necessary? I feel like even without the abuse aspect his suggestion is a rubbish one for the kids and me.

Do you know what would class as hard evidence? Off the top of my head I can think of:

• Oviously the police report from his arrest last year and the pictures of the bruises I sent to them as evidence.

• I've had support from my GP with leaving him, as well as treatment for my mental health and also for the long term physical health issue he left me with after he hurt me.

• I've had ongoing practical and emotional support from Women's Aid last year and this year.

• I've also been having therapy and attending a DV survivors group through a local womens centre.

• There have been 3 referrals made to social services and we've been receiving support from something called the family support hub as a result.

• Some of my family have witnessed him being horrible to me at various times over the years.

• Can counsellors provide evidence in court? We had marriage counselling for a while after his arrest and I've recently been having solo sessions with the same counsellor, she probably has better insight into our relationship than anyone else.

• I can probably find WhatsApp messages of him being horrible to me, but it would be hard work going through everything and screenshotting everything.

I do try to make a note of old abusive incidents as they come to me and I remember them, but the problem I've always had is that my memory around these events has always been really fuzzy, it's like he scrambles my brain so much it can't make sense of it or properly recall what happened.

He on the other hand apparently remembers things with crystal clarity, although his version of events is often very different to mine. He's always used this as 'proof' that his judgement and perspective is better than mine. He's tried to convince me I have various mental health issues over the years, or that I don't think clearly/am not capable of rational judgement because I'm too hormonal/sleep deprived/post partum/stressed.

Since he was arrested last year and the words domestic abuse started being used, he also started doing this thing where he would take things I've done or said in the past, usually out of context, and claim they're as bad as things he's done to me. I was also pretty insecure and scared of him leaving me during the relationship, which mainly manifested as me needing constant reassurance that he wasn't cheating on me or planning to leave me (I've done lots of therapy to understand why!), and he's started claiming that I was the real abuser because I was so 'controlling' of him.

All of this makes me worried about what he'd try to say about me in court.

I'm not sure if he'd want 50/50 custody. He's currently only paying me a couple of hundred pounds a month in maintenance, basically the bare minimum suggested by the CMS website. The boys' nursery bill is huge. If he had them 50/50 surely he'd have to pay 50% of that and everything else?

OP - the only one of these I would say is "hard" evidence is his arrest. I had police involvement minus this plus all of the rest you have listed. The courts said the way he had treated me didn't make him a "bad dad" and he had every right to equal parenting time. The fact he had blatantly psychologically and financially abused me for years was seen as entirely relevant. I was told by a WPC that unless I could "show bruises" there was nothing the police could do.
I'm not for one second saying this is right, btw. It's horrific. But it happens and I want you to be aware.
Luckily, few men are quite as evil, cruel and manipulative as my ex-husband.

Thank you.

What about the fact that he doesn't necessarily want more time with them, he just wants the contact to be broken up into two shorter visits instead of one longer one? Basically he's saying Sunday - Thursday is too long a gap for him to go without seeing them.

Sorry, I know you're not an expert and I need legal advice. I'm in the process of sorting out legal aid but it's taking forever!

Yes those things would be classed as evidence and yes you NEED evidence. He can say whatever he likes but unless he has verifiable evidence, it’s hearsay. I realise old going through old messages would be time consuming and potentially upsetting but I’d advise you to do it. You need all the evidence you can get. My ex was deemed to be abusive, a narcissistic, solipsistic personality and they still awarded him 3 weekends Fri-Mon out of 4. So yes, you need evidence. Not to scare you but to prepare you, the court system is quite atrocious to domestic abusive survivors and in my opinion, doesn’t protect women and children. It’s all about the men’s parental rights more than anything. He might not want the kids 50/50 but he might to a) “win” b)to punish you and c) to reduce his cms payments. The more he has them, the less he pays.

The reason you feel fuzzy is because he is gaslighting you and using DARVO. It’s a classic abuser tactic. Please look it up if you haven’t already.

www.verywellmind.com/protecting-yourself-from-darvo-abusive-behavior-7562730

I would advise that you go as low contact as possible. Tell him the days he can have the kids and don’t deviate from it. If he contacts you outwith those times, ignore him. If he starts any nonsense, report him. Seriously.

Learn to grey rock him.

psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method

As others have said be wary of court.

If he's never been abusive to your child then the courts don't care what's happened between you two.

Whatever his intention is. It does seem a big gap not to see tour child from Sunday-Thursday. Not defending him but just saying.

Could you agree to allow him to just have an evening on either Monday or Tuesday but refuse the overnight? Try and do this amicably . Because I worry for you as the courts aim for 50/50 as the starting point

Or like you said he can pick up earlier on a Thursday and possibly you pick up earlier on the Saturday and allow one evening in the week for a few hours but no overnight. Or could your child have a swimming lesson or something on a Monday or Tuesday and you could offer he takes your child to the club on Monday or Tuesday and then to return them home to you ?