Standing up for yourself without falling out?

[Honeysucklelane]

Is it possible to stand up for yourself / defend yourself without falling out with people? I’m generally calm and put up with a lot, but when I do get to the point where enough is enough, I am terrible at standing up for myself - it usually ends a friendship.

Whether that’s because the friendship wasn’t that compatible in the first place, or it’s run it’s course, or I just cannot assert myself in a constructive way I’m not sure? I’d appreciate some tips, as from experience my default is to just agree, make light / joke of stuff, or change the subject entirely.

(For context these situations happen over messages rather than in person and usually over something ‘minor’ that’s escalated.)

Have you seen any of Jeffrey Fisher's short videos on FB? He covers stuff like this and suggests really good techniques for dealing with lots of different challenging situations.

I think if you consistently and frequently find yourself in situations that you need to defend or stand up for yourself in then the problem does seem to be that you’re pursuing the wrong sort of friendships and not heeding the very early red flags which suggest that this isn’t a positive friendship. You shouldn’t have to “put up with a lot” or reach an “enough is enough” in the first place. Why do you think it is that you do so or have learned to believe that this is normal?

Apart from anything else, if you spend months or even years just going along with situations that you aren’t happy with or with people doing and saying things which upset you and never saying how you feel, how is anyone around you ever to know or learn that you don’t like or want what’s happening? Why would they change their behaviour if they think you’re perfectly fine with it because you aren’t saying otherwise?

It’s just a case of calmly holding your own boundaries. It’s not a ‘falling out’ situation in my mind. Agree to disagree.

Thank you, I’ll take a look. I think I’m a natural people pleaser, so if I do stand up for myself, my feelings or opinions, people aren’t used to it. And I’m no good at it either!

Sounds like you're bottling it all up until you lose your rag, or it's a case of the straw that broke the camels back.

You need to start putting boundaries in place early on, that way people won't take the piss. Don't let the small stuff pass under your radar.

It really is impossible to advise based on what you've said here. DH has a tendency to put up wth a lot and then lose it completely, often inappropriately, not least because the blow-up will come because of tension elsewhere. HHe is trying harder to be mindful of when he's feeling frustrated, and why, so that he can address the issue sooner. For example, there's a group of school parents he works on a particular project with. He can get a bit over snippy with them but usually because they push and push and push and he doesn't ever say no until he over reacts. So he's working harder at just being clearer up front that actually, no, he doesn't want to do x or y, BEFORE it becomes an issue because his passivity has meant that they assume he does and they've been planning accordingly.

Thank you. This makes sense. I’ve developed some close intense friendships with various people over the years - people I ordinarily wouldn’t have clicked with, but we’ve clicked over shared experiences… work, bad boss, kids same age etc. I have had early misgivings or red flags, but have persevered with the friendship.

I found learning to say "no I can't do that" a lot sooner really helpful, as well as "I see where you're coming from but I see it differently". Also, apologising for harsh words said in the heat of the moment.

Edit: if they get in a snit about it then you should be questioning the friendship anyway.

How is your relationship with your parents/ siblings? I think sometimes when you are brought up to put others first you actually end up surrounded also by friends that expect you to put them first so they will push back and react badly when you initially stand up to them.
I was a terrible people pleaser and really struggled with setting boundaries. One day I realised that to be a good role model to my kids I wanted them to see me stand up for myself. Now if I dont want to do something I say so! I am reasonable and polite and if someone doesnt like it I just ignore their comments/ behaviour. Im still friends with everyone worth being friends with and they respect my boundaries.
Its that simple, if you dont want to do something or dont like what someone is saying then you need to tell them. If they push back or become unpleasant with you then you need to remind yourself you have done nothing wrong and they are the unreasonable one. You dont need to get into a row or discussion about it. Your answer is final.
You may find you re-evaluate your friendships/ relationships because unfortunately people pleasers can tend to attract the kind of people that like to take advantage!

I’m happy to agree to disagree. People have different opinions. I had one friend who just went on and on at me on messages over something she disagreed with, to the point I felt harassed. I tried to defend myself and that was that. I was left feeling I should have just agreed with her.

But you don’t need to continue to ‘defend’ yourself. Defend yourself against what? Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has got one. It doesn’t mean they’re right and you’re wrong. Everyone has a unique worldview and that’s fine.

Just cut it off and say “yes I can see why you feel that way, but let’s just agree to disagree shall we?’ And if they continue just say ‘sorry (laughing) we are not going to agree on this, shall we change the subject?’

I had a silly heated debate with a close friend over the toilet brush debate (I’m anti) and she got quite red faced and pissed off but I didn’t let emotions come into it. She has her way and I have mine. Ultimately we moved on. Humans are not clones. You can’t agree on everything!

Thank you. My mum is incredibly kind and generous - but also highly critical and often rude. I was brought up with a lot of morals, and basic good manners etc, but so verbally instilled in me to the point I find it hard when others aren’t as thoughtful.

I do think I’m a bit of a doormat and have taken steps to counteract this - for example, not instantly offering my help to people who wouldn’t help me / others, thinking before I say yes to things I’ll later wish I hadn’t said yes to.

I’m digressing here, but I didn’t have loo brushes for many years. Now the kids are older I’ve got some, but they’re rubber or silicon bristle ones that are really easy to clean and disinfect.

It does amaze me what people ‘argue’ about and even fall out over. I get peeved with people who’ll lecture me over something when they’re in a similar position For example, I don’t speak to a highly toxic sibling, one ex-friend thought this was terrible and kept saying I should make up with them, yet she cut a parent out of her life because they were causing her too much stress.

So you have cut off a toxic influence in your life and that’s a good strong decision. Other randoms can have their opinions about it - fine, let them work themselves up into a frenzy, or whatever they want. You don’t have to invest any emotion or care into what other people think or say. That is another choice you have the power to make.

I hope you pointed that out to her?

Been there, got the T shirt. Situational friendships can be very tricky. I ended a very long friendship recently because I realised we literally had nothing in common and I had taken on the role of service human to her, if I didn't invite, host or travel to her I didn't see her. She never put herself out.

We met at work, her husband ran off with someone, my marriage was completely lonely so we bonded. Looking back I provided a social life for her, invited her along with my other friends, hosted her for the weekends in the single years. She remarried, I got divorced, tumbleweed!

Now I make sure I have something in common with potential friends ie hobbies, interests, values, sense of humour. Any flakiness, rudeness, they're gone.

Like you I have tolerated the intolerable for far too long. Mindless really.