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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Lifetime of a horrible Mother

47 replies

Cola133 · 30/09/2024 10:22

I need help please. I'm 45 and have a lifetime of an acrimonious relationship with my Mother. It's all blown up today and she's stooped to a level I never thought she would go to. I feel very suicidal and I just need advice.

I'll try to cut it short, basically my Mother has always been a very selfish person, what she wants and needs comes before anything else. If she doesn't want something or doesn't need it, then she's less selfish. My sister and I grew up knowing that my Mother lied to others and made up stories, mostly to better herself in others eyes, but some were nonsensical too. My sister always covers for her, even though she knew Mum was lying, she would back her up. Mum has always used her mood swings to gain things for herself. To live with her you learn its easier to give her what she wants, rather than having to deal with her moods of rage or even worse crying and feeling sorry for herself. I learnt at a young age, to buy her stuff to keep her moods even. My dear Dad (now deceased) got into debt, buying her stuff that he couldn't afford, like new open planned stairs and faux fur coats, to name a couple. Mum also treated my Dad appallingly and spoke degradingly about him to everyone in the family. My Dad was a kind and good man, but he would never stand against her, he loved her despite her being awful to him; she even weaponised my sister and turned her against my Dad, so that when mum was in a mood with dad, she would step back and my sister would fight him - sometimes this literally ended in fisticuffs. They ganged up on him and as my sister and I were only teens, me being 4 years younger, there was nothing I could do. I remember being so upset, how could they treat my Dad like this?

All through my teen years I rebelled against my Mum for all the lies and stories she used to tell, it really mentally affected me and when I spoke the truth, my sister would back up my mum and I looked like the liar. I didn't do anything wild, but I distanced myself from my family a lot and found solace in doing things freely on my own, although I felt lonely a lot of the time. I had no friends as my mum didn't like any of them, except one girl who she made it clear she wished was her daughter and not me; my mum always made my friends feel awkward and to my friends it was evident she didn't like them, so they stopped coming around. Mum also told people that my sister was not only a daughter but a friend too. Mum would take an opportunity to divulge my inner secrets to anyone that would listen, from telling everyone that I had the starting of bulimia to embarrassingly announcing at a large family Christmas with aunts and cousins, that I am conscious about top lip hair! At 14 I could have died!

At around 22 years old, I rented my own flat in another town where most of my outer family lived. My Mum was so awful to me, she wouldn't help me with anything, although because my sister and dad helped me move in, she made a token effort to help with that, but as soon as my stuff was in, she made them leave, no cup of tea or nothing. When she visited her father in the road next to mine, she wouldn't visit me and made sure my Dad and Sister didn't either. I was so alone. My sister has never left home, my mum made it so bad when I left, I don't think my sister could stand the guilt of leaving. My Dad just followed whatever my mum told him, I think he just wanted a quiet life.

A time later, I met my current partner. He is a lot older than me by 24 years, at this point she turned really nasty. My mum turned my whole family against me, going around telling lies and making up stories, no one spoke to me and even to this day, they still believe the stories. My Mum stopped talking to me and even stopped my Dad and Sister. I was in Asda one time and they walked straight by me. I had done nothing wrong! My partner was my first boyfriend and I wanted to talk to my mum about sex and things, but she wasn't there for me - I don't know why I expected her to be. My mum made sure no one in my family acknowledged me or my partner, I think she loved people feeling sorry for her and giving her attention - my mum lives for attention from others, she makes sure to be loud and noticed when she goes out - in a flirty with everyone way, not a drunk hooligan way. I've been with my partner for 20 years now and whilst it's unconventional, it really works for us both.

About 5 years into my relationship, through different avenues, I managed to patch things a bit and got her to meet my partner, it went ok. I wanted my family back as I had no one apart from my partner. Over the next year's we had odd arguments, but we lived separately so I didn't have to conform or toady to her attention seeking and lies and story telling. We rubbed along mostly.

I'm 2022, due to housing costs rising and my Dad passing, we decided to move in together into her rental house. (we had to sell our family home to pay for my Dad's care) It was a complete nightmare! I had forgotten how devious and irrational she was, she also resented me having any say in anything to do with the house, but as we were paying half the rent, I feel we were entitled to. Things like we couldn't cut a bush back without her permission, her cleaning was very subpar and she took offense when I cleaned... Everything possible she took offense to and got in a mood of not talking for days on end or continually cried and told my sister stories that were not true. Mum was even worse with her lies and stories and the passive aggression went to whole other levels. We moved to a bigger rental in 2023 and as we had our own areas, we've had a few rows but mostly rubbed along and avoided each other.

Fast forward to now. We are looking at buying a house together as the rental situation is so precarious now. My partner is putting down all the deposit as a 'gift' and my sister and I will own the house and pay the mortgage. Friday morning I went into my mum's room, paid her a compliment on her hair and make up (compliments put her in a good mood and I was hoping for a day of even moods) then she said 'I don't know what to do today, I think I might pack the lounge sofa cushions' , I said 'I wouldn't do that as we've got 8 weeks until we move and we might want to sit down on them', I then said 'why don't you pack the kitchen up' as she's been meaning to do it for a while now. Mum replied 'I'll do it Monday when there are less people in the house' fair enough I thought, but I could see she was spoiling for something, so I said 'why don't you pack up your dressing table drawers and clean them, then we can get them listed to sell' she looked down at the floor and then back at me and said 'the money will be mine won't it? as I bought them with my money', I replied 'no it will go into the house pot, which is only fair as my partner is buying us a free house' (a bit of back story, my partner is paying for the removals, the deposit, the solicitor, the rics survey etc. My sister has paid half for the mortgage advisor and half for the moving insurance. My partner got an inheritance recently and my mum and sister have no savings. My sister has A good salary, my mum is retired). My mum waited a couple of seconds and then turned to me and said, 'so I'm a freeloader now is that what you're saying?' I replied calmly 'that's not what I said, those are your words not mine, I said he's buying us a free house'. I added 'It's the right and good thing to do, to give the money to my partner as he's paying all the costs'. She then got really angry and started saying 'You're calling me a freeloader' which I didn't and told her so! I got up and walked away as I can't fight against made up lies that she has convinced herself of and she was looking for an argument. I went straight away and told my sister what had been said, she then spoke to my mother who told her a whole different story. She told my sister that I had actually called her a freeloader! It's a word that isn't even in my vocabulary! I should add here, that my partner's and my stuff for moving would get on a 7.5ton lorry, my mum's and sisters will need the massive removal lorry plus the 7.5ton! They hoard and just keep buying more and more clothes! so the removal costs of £4,500 is three quarters theirs! Wouldn't a normal person think that any spare money should go to their own moving costs?! No she wants to buy more clothes, she's been itching to for weeks. Mum already has two large wardrobes and stacks of large boxes and suitcases in storage full of clothes, she doesn't need more - especially not for my partner to have to pay to move them!

This morning my sister texts to say she's paid my partner £500. I ask why and she says it's part payment of the moving costs. I get so angry that this is my mother's doing! My sister cannot afford £500 but because she believes my mother she feels she has to find money. I storm into my mother's room and ask her why she is lying, she continues to double down with the lie. I shouted to my sister that she knows I never lie, Infact my worst trait is blunt honesty! I shout back at my mother 'why are you lying, it's to save yourself' I then swore on my deceased soulmate cats that my word is the truth - I'm trying to save my relationship with my sister as when my mum and partner go, each other is all we will have. My mother then swears on her deceased mother and her alive cats life (supposed to be her soulmate cat) that she is telling the truth! I know this is immature, but I had to somehow show that I am not lying, my mother is. To us, swearing on deceased or alive loved ones is sacrosanct. After a lot of shouting and rage, my sister believes my Mother again.

After everything my mother has ever done to my Dad and I, I really never believed that she would sink as low as this. To follow through on a lie to the extent that you swear to it on something that you are supposed to love beyond all else and her deceased mother who she reveres like a saint - I just can't process it! It feels like my structure of good and bad has been blown apart. I could never lie or swear on a loved one if it wasn't true, it feels next to being a murderer to me. I also feel that my truthful character has been assassinated in one go, but I am telling the absolute truth, she and I both know it, but she will hold the lie forever now. I could never believe that my own mother could be so morally wrong, the person that even now I would have trusted to do the right thing, she carries on with the lie which has driven my sister and I apart.... It's no secret that she doesn't love me or even like me, I challenge her facade too much, I won't conform like my sister. It feels evil, I don't know what to do... I know I've buried my head in the same where she is concerned, I shouldn't have invested my heart of invested in any hope of her being the person is like a mother to be.

If you've made it this far, thank you. I'm not sure what should be my next steps. Do my partner and I pull out of buying the house? The trouble is I'm not working and he is now retired. We only have enough money to get a small 1 bed flat in Lincolnshire, we are currently in sussex. We don't know anyone in Lincolnshire. Do we carry on with the house and just avoid each other as much as possible or do I just end of all now? There doesn't seem much future ahead either way.

OP posts:
Blusterydaytodaypoohbear · 30/09/2024 10:29

Why not live with your bf and cut out the toxic ones in your life? No good will come of him buying a home for you all to live in. No good at all. Not a jot..

Scutterbug · 30/09/2024 10:31

I cannot understand why you firstly moved back in and secondly, are buying a house to all live in! What a toxic environment. Yes, you need to put a stop to this nonsense and you and your partner get a place together.

Cola133 · 30/09/2024 10:36

Blusterydaytodaypoohbear · 30/09/2024 10:29

Why not live with your bf and cut out the toxic ones in your life? No good will come of him buying a home for you all to live in. No good at all. Not a jot..

Thank you for replying, it makes me feel less like I'm going mad. I guess partly because all we could afford without a mortgage is a 1 bed flat hundreds of miles away and I guess I'm holding on to having a relationship with my sister in the future as I will have no one else. My sister doesn't have a deposit, so they will have to find another rental and I'm not sure they will get anything very easy to rent in this area. despite all they have put me through, I will feel immense guilt to leave them in the lurch. It's like I can't live with them and my conscience won't let me just walk away. I think this is why my poor Dad put up with what he did.

OP posts:
Cola133 · 30/09/2024 10:39

Scutterbug · 30/09/2024 10:31

I cannot understand why you firstly moved back in and secondly, are buying a house to all live in! What a toxic environment. Yes, you need to put a stop to this nonsense and you and your partner get a place together.

Money mainly. My partner's and my rental went from£850 per month to £1,300 with 2 months notice. We couldn't afford that. My Mum and Sister had students to fund their rent, so we thought why not move in together to save money. It is toxic 😞 thank you for commenting

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 30/09/2024 10:44

You have been trained since childhood to put your narcissistic mother’s needs and wants first and foremost with your own dead last. Your sister is the golden child mini me version of your mother whilst you are and remain the scapegoat in this dysfunctional family. You likely also remind your mother of your dad, a man she always hated. Women like your mother cannot do relationships at all.

Do not buy a house with either your mother and sister, your living arrangements with them are disastrous enough already.

Reclaim your life and deal with all the fear obligation and guilt through therapy. Pull
out of any house purchase with them and let them fend for themselves. Move far away leaving no forwarding address and put physical as well as mental distance between you and they. You may also want to read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward and the Out of the fog website.

OrderOfTheKookaburra · 30/09/2024 10:44

Are you mad? Why on earth are you tying yourself legally to your mother with this house purchase?

Do NOT buy with her. Buy your own place and make sure it is very, very far away from your mother.

The only reason that I can think that you would want to buy with her is because you still have an emotional codependency going on. You need some serious therapy to break that tie. You don't need her approval and you will never get her approval.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 30/09/2024 10:45

You will also need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got. Drop the rope these people hold out to you.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 30/09/2024 10:48

You will never have a healthy relationship with your sister, this is who she is and she’s not going to change. Better to be on your own than to be so badly accompanied like you are now.

Cola133 · 30/09/2024 10:50

I guess it boils down to, being scared to be alone. I am so scared of that....

OP posts:
Terrribletwos · 30/09/2024 10:51

I don't really understand about the selling of the family home to pay for care costs if your mother was still living there🤔

Blusterydaytodaypoohbear · 30/09/2024 10:53

I haven't seen my dm for best part of 24 years.. The relief.. The weight gone... You have a bf.. You aren't alone. Grieve the family you wished you had. Stop keep giving them more head space. They don't think of you in a caring way.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 30/09/2024 10:53

Better to be alone than to be this badly accompanied by your serial abusers in the shape of your mother and sister. You were really on your own when you were growing up in this dysfunctional family. No one looked out for you in that family.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 30/09/2024 10:55

Also you have a bf so you are not completely on your own here. Grieve instead for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got.

Cola133 · 30/09/2024 10:56

Terrribletwos · 30/09/2024 10:51

I don't really understand about the selling of the family home to pay for care costs if your mother was still living there🤔

My Dad had specialist needs, the care that the council funded was awful, we couldn't let him die in squalor. He had paid for the house for most of his life, the right thing to do was to get him a better nursing home, but care costs a fortune. The only money was in the house. Maybe a monetary wrong decision, but I think a morally right one. Dad deserved the better care.

OP posts:
Harvestfestivalknickers · 30/09/2024 11:10

You've replaced your father by providing a home for your mother but you and your DH aren't your father. You don't love her unconditionally and aren't prepared to go into debt to finance her lifestyle. The dynamics of the relationship with your DM have changed, you are the 'provider' and she is relying on you to house her. She can't accept this, so she will be forever sowing seeds of division between you and your DH and you and your DS. It's a toxic mix and one I couldn't tolerate, she will play the victim and you will be at fault.

Hollythedogwalker · 30/09/2024 11:11

A one bed flat in Lincolnshire (or anywhere) sounds a far better proposition than living with these two. Yes pull out of the house purchase, go no contact and save yourself

NewtonsCradle · 30/09/2024 11:14

You need to make a decision about how to proceed, not based on one argument but based on how the living arrangements will work for everyone going forward.

Moving house is one of the most stressful things people do, buying more clothes is likely a coping mechanism, something that soothes your mother's emotions and gives her a sense of identity.
You suggested selling something of her's: she may have interpreted that as she will lose her current home, her possessions and the money from the sale of said possession... It's an easy fix, just let her keep it or sell it and keep the money. Be honest with yourself, are you trying to control your mother and sister because you can't cope with the unpredictable drama?

You might find searching borderline personality disorder interesting and informative but don't go completely down the rabbit hole, a lot of people have personality disorders and manage to live normally. However, the people around them often need hobbies and outside interests to cope. Whether or not your family is dealing with mental health conditions you need some alone space and time.

It's completely pointless getting into screaming matches just don't engage at that level, it gives energy to the dysfunction.

QuaintBiscuit · 30/09/2024 11:15

Cola133 · 30/09/2024 10:50

I guess it boils down to, being scared to be alone. I am so scared of that....

Edited

Would it be worse than what you've got now? Really, truly worse?

I've come from a difficult family too, father was a horrendous narcissist. Cut ties with him in my late teens and never regretted it. It took a long time to unpick his 'training' so to speak, and I'm still figuring things out now. I have contact with my mother, but not much, and our relationship is a thin thread. She's very self-absorbed and her interest in things is only ever how they affect her. I have to limit contact because her preferred method of dealing with difficult things is to ask me how I'm going to make it better for her, even if I am the one experiencing the difficult thing.

You do not have to live like this, OP, you really don't. First off, please put the brakes on the house situation. Why on earth are you planning to live with your mother? She's horrible to you and you clearly don't want to.

It's OK to step back and put your needs first. It's not selfish, it's normal. I know how very difficult it is to put boundaries in place after a lifetime of being told that having boundaries makes you a bad person. But it really doesn't. Not having them makes you a doormat, and once people like this have got you in that position, they will be happy to keep you there and will pile on the guilt if you try to make change. But you can make the change. You are not responsible for making their lives alright. Only they can do that. You can have sympathy but that doesn't mean you must step up to do the work to fix it for them.

If you can, please read about enmeshment and parentification, and FOG.

Cola133 · 30/09/2024 11:24

NewtonsCradle · 30/09/2024 11:14

You need to make a decision about how to proceed, not based on one argument but based on how the living arrangements will work for everyone going forward.

Moving house is one of the most stressful things people do, buying more clothes is likely a coping mechanism, something that soothes your mother's emotions and gives her a sense of identity.
You suggested selling something of her's: she may have interpreted that as she will lose her current home, her possessions and the money from the sale of said possession... It's an easy fix, just let her keep it or sell it and keep the money. Be honest with yourself, are you trying to control your mother and sister because you can't cope with the unpredictable drama?

You might find searching borderline personality disorder interesting and informative but don't go completely down the rabbit hole, a lot of people have personality disorders and manage to live normally. However, the people around them often need hobbies and outside interests to cope. Whether or not your family is dealing with mental health conditions you need some alone space and time.

It's completely pointless getting into screaming matches just don't engage at that level, it gives energy to the dysfunction.

Thank you, I think your reply really is the case. I'm trying to find where I have gone wrong so I can rectify my mistakes, could you please explain a bit more how I might be controlling them to cope with the unpredictable drama? It sounds like it might be right, but I can't see it at the moment. I hate unpredictability, I value peace and stability and safety and honesty. I'm scared of being alone in this world, the only people I have are my partner, mum and sister, so I'm likely co-dependent as another commenter wrote. I guess I try to hard to be righteous and live by a strong moral compass and expect others to as well. Perhaps my expectations are the controlling part? I'm lost.

Am I the borderline personality disorder, or my mum?

Thank you for any help.

OP posts:
Psychoticbreak · 30/09/2024 11:36

YOu need to go to the 'we took you to stately homes' threads and you will get loads of advice. Sadly mothers like this are all to common and we do have to step away from them.

Cola133 · 30/09/2024 11:46

QuaintBiscuit · 30/09/2024 11:15

Would it be worse than what you've got now? Really, truly worse?

I've come from a difficult family too, father was a horrendous narcissist. Cut ties with him in my late teens and never regretted it. It took a long time to unpick his 'training' so to speak, and I'm still figuring things out now. I have contact with my mother, but not much, and our relationship is a thin thread. She's very self-absorbed and her interest in things is only ever how they affect her. I have to limit contact because her preferred method of dealing with difficult things is to ask me how I'm going to make it better for her, even if I am the one experiencing the difficult thing.

You do not have to live like this, OP, you really don't. First off, please put the brakes on the house situation. Why on earth are you planning to live with your mother? She's horrible to you and you clearly don't want to.

It's OK to step back and put your needs first. It's not selfish, it's normal. I know how very difficult it is to put boundaries in place after a lifetime of being told that having boundaries makes you a bad person. But it really doesn't. Not having them makes you a doormat, and once people like this have got you in that position, they will be happy to keep you there and will pile on the guilt if you try to make change. But you can make the change. You are not responsible for making their lives alright. Only they can do that. You can have sympathy but that doesn't mean you must step up to do the work to fix it for them.

If you can, please read about enmeshment and parentification, and FOG.

My mother sounds like yours, sorry you have it too.It's the guilt I will feel pulling out of buying the house, I don't know if I could live with myself, neither my mum or sister are very money savvy, I just don't know how to walk away without the guilt... Another option would be to split the house we're buying, they have downstairs we have upstairs. Then we only have to intermingle at certain times.... I don't know, my head is going so fast, I'm reeling from my mum holding out to a lie even under our equivalence of an oath! I guess my problem is my core foundation has been rocked by my own mother... Why did I expect better, when she has never given better.. Thank you again

OP posts:
Menopausemayhem · 30/09/2024 11:47

Read up on F.O.G fear, obligation, guilt this will help you see what’s happening here.

RunningJo · 30/09/2024 11:56

Scutterbug · 30/09/2024 10:31

I cannot understand why you firstly moved back in and secondly, are buying a house to all live in! What a toxic environment. Yes, you need to put a stop to this nonsense and you and your partner get a place together.

Exactly this.

I am unsure as to why you would want anything more than a simple relationship with people so toxic, not a chance I would be moving in with them, sorry. I appreciate it isn't easy, but your Mum has shown you time and time again what she is like, now is the time to believe her. Let her & your sister find somewhere suitable to live without you.

QuaintBiscuit · 30/09/2024 12:02

Cola133 · 30/09/2024 11:46

My mother sounds like yours, sorry you have it too.It's the guilt I will feel pulling out of buying the house, I don't know if I could live with myself, neither my mum or sister are very money savvy, I just don't know how to walk away without the guilt... Another option would be to split the house we're buying, they have downstairs we have upstairs. Then we only have to intermingle at certain times.... I don't know, my head is going so fast, I'm reeling from my mum holding out to a lie even under our equivalence of an oath! I guess my problem is my core foundation has been rocked by my own mother... Why did I expect better, when she has never given better.. Thank you again

I read a Phillippa Perry book not that long ago in which she said that guilt is better than resentment.

What is coming across is that you're too scared of your own feelings to make the changes that you need to make.

Feelings are real, but that doesn't make them true.

If you go through with this and live with them, then things will remain as they are now, and you have to decide whether or not you really want that.

If you could make the break without feeling guilty, would you do it?

QuaintBiscuit · 30/09/2024 12:04

Them not being money savvy is not your problem. They are not children, and you are not their mother.

The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour.