Is separated dp's criterion for reconciliation unrealistic?

[Twoddle]

Ex-dp and I separated last November. He'd been all over the place - mood-wise - for over a year, our relationship had reflected these strains, and in the month before we separated, on a high, he slept with three other women.

I'm so hurt and angry about this, but am willing to give counselling a go, after some breathing space, to figure out if we can rebuild our relationship.

Ex-dp - who I thought felt the same - has now said he doesn't want to be together again unless we actually choose each other - i.e. with no addressing-of-what-happened-last-year in the meantime. Am I being daft to think it ridiculous to believe that someone who's partner has cheated on them several times would/could spontaneously choose to be with that person again, without a whole lot of counselling/help first?! It's chicken-and-egg stuff.

Meanwhile, ds (4) is asking if Daddy can move back in, saying that if he doesn't come, we should just grab him. Ex-dp seems unmoved by this. When I have asked if he feels a sense of responsibility to at least try, he says he doesn't believe in doing anything out of duty/obligation/"should".

Maybe I'm losing the plot - but surely, once one is a parent, there simply are obligations, duties, etc? Even if those don't actually include trying to make your relationship work.

Grrr. Thanks for the chance to vent as much as anything.

Oh dear God. What a tosser. Yes, as a parent he has obligations and duties. And yes, it is unreasonable and slightly mad to think that you can have three flings and then reunite under random hippy-dippy terms of your own devising.

You haven't said a) if you still love him or b) if you actually want to be reunited. If yes and yes, then he has to realise that what's called for is abject contrition, lots of apologies and a great deal more maturity than he's showing. You call the shots in these circumstances. If that's not possible - is it really worth persisting with?

so he wants to get back together but only if you never mention his apalling behaviour and shagging around? I think you're better off without him tbh!

I'm with NL on this one.

you are being v sensible (if over generous). he is being a complete arse.

Thank you all. I know it's daft, but I'm crying. Relief, I suppose, that I haven't lost my marbles and am talking sense. He's so charming, compelling, persuasive and always calm, that I have lost my own sense of what's right and wrong; I'm questioning myself. It feels wrong - irresponsible - to take his approach, and yet I find myself thinking maybe he's right? Lesson to me: go with gut feeling.

Do I still love him? On some distant level, yes. Do I want to be reunited? Sometimes yes, sometimes not. I want to see if counselling could lead us to a place where we both might consistently think "yes". Then I would feel I'd done everything I could to keep this family intact.

Three flings and he wants to come back like nothing ever happened? I'd be ripping the carpet up with my bare hands (or something) if my xp had mooted that. You are being very calm under the circs .

oh you poor thing... why not set up the counselling for yourself anyway? you've been througfh a lot and are really trying to do the right thing... get someone to help you with all this.

As a matter of interest (just starting, or trying to start the Relate process myself) do you have to pay for this? I'm registered with a different area to the one I live in - since we opted to go with the one in XP's area - but I'm thinking of taking myself to my local one. Don't want to hijack the thread though.

You know why he's so calm don't you? Because he's chancing his arm. He's saying he'll come back providing you don't make him face up to all the shitty things he's done to you. Who wouldn't want that option is his position? If you had slept with three people would he not want to discuss it? Perhaps you could find out

If you don't get a chance to resolve your issues, through counselling or whatever it takes, it will eat you up. DS may want his dad back but he does not want to be stuck in the middle of a horrible relationship with no trust (take it from one who knows thanks to her parents!) Don't let XP have it all his own way.

And insist on STD testing too. Wingandaprayer is right, this will eat at you unless it is addressed fully by both of you.

There are issues becuase of the way he has behaved. It is sheer lunacy to believe that they can be resolved by ignoring them!

There are indeed obligations and duties where children are involved and I think he is being amazingly selfish in pretending it is a matter of free will.

I would like to spend all my money on a lovely new sofa I have seen. I shall ignore my responsibilities to my dcs to feed and clothe them and I am sure that the Bank will not mind if I don't bother with my responsibilities to them either. After all, its my life, I should just do as I want. Oh wait a minute, I already have and I chose to have children and a mortgage. He is being an idiot.

Rather than concern yourself with his criteria, you could try working out what your criteria are, perhaps using counselling to do this as islingtonponce suggested?

notsurenow - you do have to pay for Relate, yes. I can't remember how much it costs now - about £40/hour?

Good luck with your situation. I hope it works out.

Does he have some actual mental health issues, ie bipolar or something? I'm not being insulting but you mention his moods being erratic etc, and one factor of many mental health issues is they make the sufferer very self-obsessed and selfish. So while he might not be entirely to blame for his behaviour, please be aware that it isn't your fault and do your best to be kind to yourself just now.

Don't even bother with him. He has no sense of duty or responsibility, so will not think twice of doing this again if he felt the situation warranted it.Seriously, narcissistcally self-obsessed and unempathic.

Twoddle, he's in denial of his actions and the reverbarations in you and the dcs lives.

Fraudsters and serial killers can also be calm, charming and persuasive...I wouldn't give a toss about how I come across in comparison to him, -every individual expresses his/her emotions/reasoning differently. That doesn't make you insane or hysterical.

The breakdown which occurred in November needs to be adressed in order to make sure it doesn't happen again and to give both of you a chance to understand its motivations in the first place. He doesn't want to be held accountable for it, that's why he's sweeping it under the carpet.

IMO, within 6 months of the adultery you can file for divorce on the grounds of it. I'm not saying you should quickly discard of a relationship but TBH the guy doesn't sound like a keeper. I echo what littlewoman says: he has no sense of duty and responsibility. He is indulging in actions which only suit himself as if you and the kids didn't matter at all.

By the by: Get tested for veneral diseases. He will probably do it again.

Bipolar has been mentioned by a few people. I wondered about it. The thing is, he now seems normal-ish, IYKWIM - apart from these, in my mind, uninsightful, on-another-planet views. He believes a relationship (including a rekindled one) must start with animal attraction - a bolt of lightning. So arriving at a resolved, happy situation via counselling wouldn't be satisfactory to him because it didn't start right. Never mind making the odd compromise when one has a child.

He really hasn't always been this way, BTW. I'm finding the situation utterly bewildering, TBH.

Little vent coming up ... what I find so difficult is that there are no consequences for behaving as my ex has done. He says he's really happy - enjoying his freedom, being single, having time for himself, the couple of afternoons he has with ds each week. He left before ds's bedtime yesterday to have a barbecue and some beers with a friend. I find it insane that he doesn't think, hmm, maybe I should be home reading my son a bedtime story. For him, the simple fact that he's enjoying himself so much is reason to not consider anyone else in the equation.

And of course, ds will always love this person who has hurt me so much, and friends and acquaintances still like him (well, to a degree), if not the things he's done. His mum still thinks the sun shines out of his arse. There are no repercussions for him: the lesson for him is "behave like this and life just gets better". And I think that is unjust.

And I worry about ds growing up to think this kind of behaviour is acceptable because his dad did it.

OK, off to get counselling to prevent me becoming a bitter and twisted old spinster. Can I find peace and deal with what has happened on my own then?

Twoddle I do see where you are coming from WRT he seems not to have suffered over his bad behaviour. Unfortunately people who are profoundly selfish but charming with it rarely do suffer, and seeking revenge of any kind always backfires on you. I think you need to concentrate on finding peace of mind for yourself, because you cannot change his behaviour you can only change how you react to it. But bear in mind, it's no good having him back for the DCs sake: a family where the majority's happiness is achieved only at the expense of one member's happiness, with no acknowledgement that the unhappy person matters or has a right to his/her feelings, is a family that's going to implode.

Twoddle, i think you can recover and move on without him - you have to. I dont think you will be a bitter twisted person - you seem very sensible. I have taken my h back after an affair and although he would rather it never got mentioned again he knows it is all part of the process to recover - and for us to get back to the lovely relationship you had.

I wonder if he would 'mind' if you had had some flings and maybe you should say you have just to see what his reaction is. Say 'ok if we dont mention your flings then we dont have to mention mine'. I bet it would be a different story then . However this is playing games and i dont think that is really a good idea - just a wicked thought whilst you are allowed to be bitter and twisted .

Anyway good luck with it all.