Excluded a lot within group activities

[ELRainbow]

Please may you give me your opinion on this situation as I'm getting very tired and depressed about this: (also feel like maybe I'm wrong)

Recently for the longest time I've noticed people I'm all friends with and some I'm really close with Go out and do activities together as a big group. These activities is what I have done before with variety of these people together however recently I'm NEVER ASKED and it's just randomly stopped... it's like a common theme. I find out plans through listening to a convo when I'm around or see it on social media.. it's very upsetting

I have communicated my feelings so much and asked why am I not invited when these plans are made like everyone else to be told... one of the reasons was because i don't plan stuff myself (keep in mind i never really have to begin with as it's not my cup of tea but I started to anyways whenever i had the confidence or feel comfortable doing so plus i did before here and there) and then when the same behaviour happened again even though i have actively went out of my comfort zone with trying to organise stuff & ask people to come (majority said no anyways) I still don't get invited to these group activities. Next reason I was told when I opened up again, was "different friend groups" but how does that make sense when I've been out with those group of people numerous times before? And I was asked before like I don't get the random switch up (please keep in mind I've done nothing. I'm always checking in and super nice lol)

I have opened up with other people within the group. If they're okay with me because I literally spiral because the sudden change of behaviour doesn't make sense to me. Like some people who use to pop up and care about my wellbeing just randomly stopped? To where they have apologised and reassured me but still the same behaviour happens? Like I genuinely feel like an outcast

I just want to have fun with friends and be included if there is a group thing going on. I don't know why it's so hard. Would completely get it if I didn't know a handful of people going but that's not the case.

What should I do.. am I wrong for being upset.. I'm losing my mind and honestly it just makes my social anxiety worse (I have bad social anxiety which everyone is aware of)

Yeah it's this tbh.. Unless you are with really good friends or maybe the group is a self help yoga type group then people really don't want to hear it. And actually they then feel pressured into inviting you so you don't feel "left out" which paradoxically makes them not invite you because they don't want to feel like they are "having" to invite someone.

The fact that it's all the groups tells me it's likely to be something you are doing. And it's likely to be the above.

It's not bullying for people to not want to be your friend... People can choose who they wish to spend their hard earned leisure time with.

Sorry.

I am vocal about my anxiety and neurodiversity, I make people aware but I still think it plays a big part in people's perception of me. There is no doubt that it puts people off.

As @CRbear @Lurkingandlearning @whichwayisup have all gently hinted, there may be something irritating people or causing awkwardness for them when you are part of a social group. For me, I know that if I try too hard to be relaxed or not come across as anxious I start to waffle on. Feedback from my husband has taught me that when I'm highly stressed I behave oddly and this can be enough to alienate people. Rejection has been a repeated pattern for me from childhood (I'm now 60) and even on forums like Ravelry and MN I've been called odd/batshit crazy, weird etc when I think I'm behaving perfectly normally. There is always something that gets picked up on. Do you have family? Anyone you can trust? Perhaps someone you are close to can be completely honest about what you need to work on regarding social situations and that could help you long term.

For me, although rejection still hurts a bit, I have pretty much come to terms with it. I know I annoy people but I can't change. WYSIWYG. I'm introverted anyway, not much of a social creature so it's no great loss to me but for you, clearly, rejection is making you deeply unhappy. I hope you are able to come to a better understanding of the reasons why it keeps happening. I do feel for you, I know how hard it is.

If you're sure there has been a definite change in attitude among various unconnected groups, it is hard to know what it could be.

Has there been any change in your life? For example have you quit drinking, turned vegan, become a born again Christian, started dating a new guy or become single? Lost your job, developed a chronic illness, bought a rowdy dog, stopped driving or formed strong political views on something? Lost or gained weight, had to turn down a few invitations in a row, or developed any consuming interest that creeps into all aspects of your chat?

Being neurodiverse myself - I am wondering if you are too - the social anxiety, confused about social messages. Unfortunately neurodiversity can come across quirky and that’s not for everyone. I have realised my long term friends are either neurodiverse themselves or have neurodiverse children which I think makes them less bothered about my quirks.

That's exactly what I was planning to say. As soon as I read I'm very vocal about my anxiety I recognised that they might well have found that off putting, if they want to just relax and have fun. If they think you're going to be a downer, sad though it is, it could explain why they're leaning you out.

Instead of confronting then and asking why they're leaving you out (which makes them feel even more awkward about having you around) keep things light hearted. Just ask what the plans are for the weekend and that your looking forward to having some fun. Or yes, arrange something yourself and invite them.

I also agree with this. In social situations, people want to feel relaxed, and if you are mentioning your anxiety constantly or coming across as needy and seeking reassurance I'm afraid people will shy away from that because it's mentally exhausting. Nothing wrong with discussing your anxiety with a close friend but dont do this in a group situation - its going to put a huge downer on the group and people will feel uncomfortable and inhibited.

I'd stop with the big groups of people, and concentrate on individual friendships.

Groups generally have some more "in" people and some more "out".

Better to build stronger, closer ties with particular individuals you get on with, than trying to fit in with a mass of people.

I agree with this 🙏
You don't owe them anything, so there's nothing that ties you to them: you can find better people. You deserve better 💐

I'm wondering whether you ar choosing the wrong people to be friends with and keep repeating the same mistake which reinforces your feelings if being rejected/something you're doing wrong.

I say this as someone who kept choosing emotionally unavailable and selfish people to chase which was a repeat of trying to placate my scapegoating mother as a child . I realised that I didn't actually have anything in common with them, actually didn't like most of them very much and was letting myself down by trying to seek validation from them. Now I'm very selective. Any hint of nastiness, they're gone.

Is there something in your upbringing that has caused this?

Are they people who just want fun times out and they see you now as a bit of a Debbie Downer? Have they as a group/individually decided that you no longer fit the group dynamic? Reading your posts, you've identified two issues, firstly, why are they doing this (and they've given you some very limp excuses but there won't be any more forthcoming) and, secondly, how are you going to get your head round what's happened? I'd accept that they're being shitty towards you and leave them be or you'll end up being very needy (and therefore proving them right!) and concentrate on dealing with their behaviour - CBT should give you the skills to help. Seriously, though, just back away and leave the mean girls to do their thing. You're worth better x

Someone has said to you that you are overthinking it and that may be part of it. People just want to meet up, have some fun but not really get embroiled in drama.

"I'm very vocal about my anxiety and have voiced going out more and doing events helps a lot etc"

Again I noticed this too. People don't want to feel a responsibility for someone and possibly feel cautious about anything they do or say in case it causes offence. Support should come from closer friends not large groups.

This is a very important question 👌

Only voiced this to basically my bestfriends in the group so they're aware and obviously must of spoke to others about it etc

Thanks for responding to my post and giving your opinion. Just want to clarify everyone I do not talk about my feelings all the time (I actually struggle to talk about my emotions due to past trauma). I basically only ever open up to my bestfriends within the group when something has repeated more than once so they're aware as I believe communication is key ❤️

I’m ND also. I go into situations as I am, no games no agendas and often I don’t fit. There is often so many agendas and dynamics at play that are beyond me. I don’t take it personally so much anymore it’s just people. I fit mostly with other ND people also as I find less weird stuff going on. We meet we chat, we meet again no change, no issues, it’s nice. I find people often want things from their friends. They want self esteem, neediness, validation, power etc etc. It’s hard when all this is not something you understand.

It sounds like your anxiety and awkwardness has got too much for them and you just don't fit anymore, and instead of telling you they've done the fade. There's no easy way of doing this, being direct or fading both hurt.

Obviously none of us are flies on the wall and w can't tell if it's them being mean, difficult behaviour from yourself or maybe somewhere in between. Some people don't like hearing about other people struggling with mental health and do get to a point where they only want to spend positive time with people. This is going to feel like mean behaviour to the openly struggling person.

In any case I'd be questioning whether you can come back from this dynamic with these people. Sometimes when there is a pattern of someone being left out of scapegoated it's really hard to change it even if you're behaviour was to change. I think all you can take from these relationships is some self reflection on what your own part may have been and to move on.

Sorry, lots of typos in that above message 😔

This sounds very hard for you. I do recognise a similar thing happening to a friend of mine. She was included in a larger group for many years but to be honest, she never really 'fitted'. She was included as we all had children the same age and she made it clear she wanted to be included, so she was. However, she was difficult on group outings and trips - always wanted to divide costs to the nearest penny for fairness, constantly talking about the cost of everything and always wanting to do everything on the cheap. She wasn't confident enough to just say she'd pay for her own stuff rather than joining in with combined costs but tried to change what everyone else was doing. She was also a committed Christian with strong views on certain subjects (e.g. sex before marriage) that she voiced frequently and disapprovingly if the topic came up (such as when talking about teenage relationships). In short, she was different from the group dynamic, which was fairly easy going liberal-minded people who divided costs pretty fairly and weren't extravagant but also not penny pinching.

She is a good friend of mine. She is kind and thoughtful. Also smart and has a good sense of humour. She is easily hurt if you say the wrong thing by mistake and takes it very personally. She lives on a low income so I understand why she worries about money. I have always encouraged her to spend time with other friend groups rather than tagging along with a group that she doesn't really fit in with, but wants to be part of as she doesn't want to 'miss out'.

The children are grown now and she has gradually not been included in various activities the other parents are doing. I know she doesn't understand why but if she was honest with herself she might acknowledge that she didn't actually enjoy a lot of the activities anyway. It's not much fun going out for a meal as a group if you want to go to the local chain pub and everyone else is happy with the local gastro pub. It makes other people feel uncomfortable if you start preaching about pre-marital sex or gay relationships when they're talking about their own young adult children. If challenged, she references her anxiety or is very quick to accuse people of bullying, which is hard to deal with.

In short, sometimes people are in the wrong group! You may well be a lovely interesting person but perhaps you just don't 'fit' with this particular group. Be honest with yourself - what do you have in common other than a shared past perhaps or an interest in a particular hobby? Perhaps the group has been kind in the past as many people are but do you actually have a proper friendship? Are they all quite laid back and easy going and you a bit less so? With true friends it is a lot easier than this situation sounds. I hope things get easier for you and you find a group that you feel comfortable with and can relax and enjoy yourself.

@greenbirds that's a really clear example, and very kind to share.

amazing example by the way and I have fully understood everything you have said but yeah I do have a lot in common with the group and get along with them so it is very confusing. Its why I always go back to the “doesn't someone not like me anymore or something” because it doesn't make sense but I'm learning to stop caring so much and if they wanna blossom the friendship they know where I am. I can't be the only one reaching out all the time etc so trying to just focus on myself 🤝🫡

I find this so confusing if this was the case. I feel like being open when there is an issue or you're upset to people you're close to for it to then turn awkward is just idk doesn't make sense

Social anxiety is not the reason! FFS, some people are just horrible. I’ve had your exact experience and it was an awful 18 months of constantly questioning myself.

I couldn’t work out why my face only fitted when it suited them - there were two main queen bees. We had all been very close - think best man at wedding and godparent close. I was just excluded over time as the two of them became closer and our husbands would spend time at their shared hobby.

There was a lot of social engineering and climbing going on and I couldn’t offer them anything- no famous friends or memberships to exclusive clubs. In the end I cut them off completely and my life has been calmer and happier since. I’ve also discovered that I am one of many people they picked up and discarded.

I would ditch them and start again. You deserve better friends.

I wondered this too. Didn't know whether to say anything or not! lol Tbh groups frighten the bejeezus out of me, so I admire you @ELRainbow for participating in several. Maybe these groups aren't for you and you need to find your tribe still? I do know people seem uncomfortable with introverts and ND people, it's like they're not sure what to make of us when there's nothing wrong with us at all... we're just different!

Me too, there is something that made me wonder.

I've never found my tribe... but then, to be honest, I am a bit of a loner anyway. I can't think of anything worse than trying to fit in with a group of people who seem intent on pushing me out. I would, in this situation, be inclined to just move on and give them the cold shoulder.