Why do I feel so threatened by MIL?

[PenLicencePower]

Tldr: mil is a very loving, helpful and involved grand parent but she is also very pushy, interfering and needy. I worry that she will get between dc and me.

I feel so pathetic about this but it really troubles me. My mil is absolutely wonderful in many ways but she is also very dominating and pushy. She likes to take charge and excepts other people to listen to her (she runs a business and her employees absolutely worship her. She does a lot for them but she expects everyone else to treat her like that as well). Over the years I think we have found a way to get along well. She tries not to be too pushy and interfering with me and I am getting better at saying no when I really don't want to do something. I don't often say no and when I do I feel very bad about it but I reckon that is my problem and not mil's. Dh has a very strange love hate relationship with her. He absolutely craves her approval but also hates her pushiness and interfering and need for constant contact (she will insist on talking to him every day at least once and starts sending him stinker messages and emotionally black mailing him when he doesn't). She has no sense of privacy or boundaries. Like absolutely zero.

She lives abroad but comes to stay with us every year once or twice a year for a few months. I know that seems long but I don't have a problem with it. My parents used to do the same and it's normal where we come from. She is also very hands on and helps where she can.

Now my problem is that now that when she is here she basically acts like a 3rd parent, not the grand mother. She insists on being involved in all decision making around the kids. Well, she has always inv9lved herself in. all decision making (eg which house to buy, etc) but it never troubled me with the other stuff. However, with the kids I think dh and me should make the decisions though I'm always happy to listen to her opinions and take them on board and often adjust my actions if I agree with her or don't disagree too strongly. On the other hand I think very carefully about everything I do when it comes to the kids and if I think I'm right I don't want to back track just to please mil (e.g. things like she doesn't want the kids playing with soil in the garden or getting muddy whereas I think it's good for them or I encourage physical play and taking calculated risks (like doing normal stuff at the playground. I'm not encouraging them to jump off a building) and mil thinks I'm putting them in danger.

She openly overrides dh in front of the kids and bad mouths him. A lot of the things she says are true but I don't think she should say them in front of the kids. She rarely does that with me or at least not in front of me. No, that's not true. She actually overrides my decisions as well. Eg if I tell dd she doesn't need a plaster for a little scratch and mil will say that dd does need one (in front of me). If I then reiterate dd doesn't need one she acts as if I'm opposing her wilfully. Or as i mentioned above i tell the kids they can dig up a patch in the garden and she immediately tell them not to because of insects or something other nonsense. She actually told me once thst I need to back her up when she says something because otherwise it's confusing for the kids whereas I think as the parent she should be backing me up or say nothing at all. I'd never ask her to back.me up but it does get tiring to have to tell dd everything several times because mil will tell her the opposite of me. And zome things that mil asks for are just unreasonable
Like having to wash their hands everytime they slightly touch a shoe or their hair, etc. And it's confusing for dd as well of course.

We have a younger ds as well but it's not so bad with him maybe because he is just 18months. Dd is 9. Somehow she is fixated on dd. She will follow dd around the house. She comes on all school runs. She has made friends with all of the school parents ( and all of our friends. She independently of us makes plans with them now and they humour her out of politeness and also because she just commands a lot of respect. She is very charismatic. She is also very helpful. She is a bit like the God father. She will absolutely go out of her way for anyone but then expects loyalty and thst they do what she says in return). I get rhe feeling thwt she likes collecting people. She loves having a massive network and she loves being needed. She needs to be needed.

Anyway, dd is very close to her and I have always encouraged that but it does worry me. She is very controlling and always telling dd what to do whereas I want dd to be able to grow, rhink independently and find her own way. I worry thst like with others in her family she will insist on dd proving her loyalty ahd affection to her. She is already insisting on speaking to the kids at least once a day on the phone when she isn't here. I worry She will interfere too much in her life and she will get toxic if dd tries to pull back in any way as she does with dh and others in her family.

I also worry thst she will push me out and this is rhe part i feel so stupid about it. I shouldn't feel threatened right? And it's good for kids to be close to their grand parents, right? Mil's intentions are good. I don't doubt she loves the kids and I know she'd take a bullet for either of them. Why do I feel so worried then?

I wish the kids were closer to my parents but I'd never accept this level of interference from my parents and my parents are much older. They used to be very hands on with the kids but are now very unwell so can't even visit. Also dh doesn't like them (which to an extent i don't blame him for..long story) so he'd never allow them to play such a big part in their lives. So I resent even more all the liberties that mil takes. When I point out the hypocrisy to dh he just says thst he does tell off mil as well but he is tired of arguing with her. It's true. He has horrible arguments with her but at the end of the day he will always do what she says.

Mil has form in driving a wedge between people. She has alienated her nephew from his mum, her sister. She says it's because her sister is too selfish and not good for her nephew. I used to agree with mil but now I worry if her sister has become like that because mil had always interfered ij her and her kids' life.

Mil has told dd that dd will.inherit her business and before that dd should stsrt working with her (on the other side of the planet). Now mil has started saying that dd should visit her on her own. Both points are Perfectly normal for a grand parent right? But why does it make me so uncomfortable?

I'm just rambling now and I suspect no one is reading anymore anyway.

Can someone please tell me to stop being so insecure and give my head a wobble?

You are aware you can just say No right?

If you can't advocate for yourself now, how are you going to do it for your children?

Be ballsy, and stop letting this woman walk all over you.

I say no but I don't want to say no just for the heck of it. Also, mil is not an easy person to say no to. She will push till you either give up or till you get annoyed and it becomes unnecessary drama. Actually, she isn't too bad with me. Dh gets it much, much worse.

Also, a lot of the times before I can even say no she will have already done the thing she wants, e.g. given the kids food, dressed them, made plans and I don't want to be unnecessarily confrontational e.g. by saying every time: "wait mil. Actually, I wanted them to have / do something else today." I do it when I have a very good reason (e.g. if I've already cooked a big meal or made concrete other plans) but if I don't have a reason I won't oppose it but then it becomes just another thing that she feels she is "in charge of".

My problem is I'm not sure if I'm.being reasonable feeling threatened or worried or wanting the kids to maintain a bit of a distance from mil or if I'm ruining a beautiful close relationship the kids could have with mil because of my insecurity and jealousness.

I want to do what's right by the kids but also, I didn't have kids to outsource them to someone else.

It's very intense, full on when she is here. (There is zero privacy. We have plenty of space but she will just come wherever we are and i also try not to exclude her. It does annoy me though that i cant have a single conversation with dd or dh without her interfering). But anyway that is just for a few months a year. It's more now because for the last 3 years I have had to go see my parents for a week or two a few times a year as they are very ill. So then dh asks mil to come (he isn't well so feels he can't look after them on his own especially the little one) and then she stays for a month because the flight tickets are so expensive. I'm grateful for that but also (probably unfairly) annoyed with dh that he can't cope with the kids on his own. And then she comes in summer for a couple of months. She has now figured out how to run her business from here so can stay for longer.

"Mil has told dd that dd will.inherit her business and before that dd should start working with her (on the other side of the planet). Now mil has started saying that dd should visit her on her own. Both points are Perfectly normal for a grand parent right? But why does it make me so uncomfortable? "

I don't think this is normal, no. It's fine for them to be close but not for MIL to be telling dd what her future career will be or controlling her future life.

You sound incredibly passive and unsure of yourself. Perhaps you need to sit down and have a good think about what is reasonable and what you don't think is reasonable. Then you and your husband need to sit down and you need to express this to him properly without being made to feel like you are unreasonable. You feel what you feel, some of it might be reasonable, some of it less so but you need to sort it out somehow.

As he is getting more criticism than you, the pair of you should be able to come up with a way that you deal with MIL together. If MIL is quite forthright, perhaps all that is needed is a really honest discussion with her where you set down as a team what is ok and what isn't ok. For example, you can say "sorry you think we are undermining you MIL, but when we say something to dd and you immediately say the opposite we feel it's up to you to support us in our decisions". She might be hurt, but she might think about it anyway.

You say she's very difficult to say no to. Ask yourself why that is and what it is she is doing that makes you unable to say no. Really, it's not up to her. If it's a no it's a no.

Some of what you describe about her undermining you in terms to washing hands all the time could be anxiety on MIL's part? Or could this have a hat cultural? Try and think through where that's coming from and it might help you to tackle it.

On the driving you out from your dd, this does sound a bit paranoid. But it sounds like it comes from a lack of confidence on your part. Concentrating on how to build your own confidence might be the thing. You might even be able to recruit MIL eventually to be more of a support in that.

You say, "She is very controlling and always telling dd what to do whereas I want dd to be able to grow, rhink independently and find her own way. I worry thst like with others in her family she will insist on dd proving her loyalty ahd affection to her. She is already insisting on speaking to the kids at least once a day on the phone when she isn't here."

Again this does sound a bit OTT. What I suspect is that however winning this is now, that when dd is a teen she might not take so kindly to being so bossed about. I suspect you have no threat in terms of being pushed out affectionwise and you don't have to feel jealous in any way. Remember you have a lot of influence on your kids maybe less by bossing them about and more in terms of how you behave. If you aren't controlled by MIL that shows them they don't have to be. If you are relaxed and confident and your own person, this will show them how they also can be. If you can even laugh at how bossy MIL is rather than feeling jealous, this shows a different way of dealing with things that shows them you don't have to let people get so under your skin.

Lastly - visits for months at a time sound quite extreme. You say it's normal where you come from. So I don't know about that. But this I would find extremely difficult. Can you have shorter visits which might be more fun and less undermining for you?

Have more confidence, and don't be down on yourself. But also don't be pushed around.

Hmm, from your last message it's a bit more complex isn't it?

If she is basically looking after your kids for a month at a time then it is clearer why she would be so organised and in control of everything with them and it's not very fair not to acknowledge the big sacrifice she's making coming to help like that. This puts you in a tricky position as you need her help but don't want her overstepping. But she is doing you a massive favour really.

But it's almost like she is the one supporting you and enabling you to go and see your family rather than your husband?

There is nothing wrong with your husband needing some help, but if she comes for such a long time each time that is a big ask of her and puts you both in her debt and not feel so able to draw boundaries round those visits.

Your husband being unwell is another complicating factor and you didn't really mention this and I don't know how bad that is.

If you are relying on her to cover your visits each time then I'd say she is doing you a massive favour and maybe your feeling of being pushed out is more to do with feeling torn and not able to be in two places at once?

It's hard to see a solution in the short term. Either your husband calls on her less, or you find ways of getting a network closer to home so you aren't so reliant on someone abroad coming for such large chunks of time? Or you look into taking your ds with you to see your family. Obviously there is also a complication about your family you don't want to go into with your DH so it's hard to know or advise.

I don't think you need to give your head a wobble, but I do think you are beholden to someone helping out like this and enabling you to visit your family. On the other hand, it could be that this "beholdeness" is something that can be used to get even longer visits and makes you feel you can't be straightforward or clear in your decisions about your children. It's tricky, but try to separate out your own confidence and decision-making abilities from the favour your MIL is doing you. You can be extremely grateful and respectful and also state that you don't want each decision contradicted and be clear that dd's future is up to dd.

Stop her visiting you for months on end, she is not an emotionally safe enough person to be around. Children need emotionally healthy grandparents and this woman does not fit the bill. Controlling behaviour is abusive behaviour and this woman demands and expects absolute loyalty. Your h and you need to present a united front and be consistent in this. He has had a lifetime of her and he is afraid of her too. He still seeks her approval, not that she would ever give him this anyway. It’s all conditional.

You do not mention fil in all this. Where is he?

This type of person is toxic and is already affecting your eldest, she will indeed try to steal her heart and mind in front of your very eyes. Driving lessons, college fees: she will
Throw money at your dad at the expense too of your youngest who will be ignored. His mother is not a person you at all want in your lives. Make yourselves far less available to her going forward. Do read Toxic In-laws by Susan Forward.

You already have physical distance, time now to put far more mental distance between you all as a family and his mother. Women like this cannot do relationships at all and it’s their way or no way as far as they are concerned. Do not let your daughter become her mini me, all this about her wanting your daughter to take her business on needs to be stamped on and hard. You cannot be wishy washy with someone like this because she has and will
continue to use your family as she sees fit.

Your h could do with therapy re his mother .

Thank you. Brilliant advice. I especially liked what you said about modeling to dd how to confidently deal with pushy people without making it a big deal.

It's complicated. Dh is not so ill that he can't look after the kids himself but it's definitely easier for him when he's got help.

I try to time my trips when mil is coming here anyway so she doesn't have to come just for that but probably once a year she does come to cover my week or two away and then stays for about a month. I'm very mindful that she is helping out so I try not to upset routines that mil or dh have established in my time away.

I don't think though that's the reason why mil is so pushy as she has always been like this and i have known her for a very long time (and all of her close family members have problems with her pushiness) but it might be another reason why I find it so difficult to see what is reasonable and what isn't on my part.

Err.. she is not that bad I think. She means well and she's got this thing about having to be needed. I think a lot of her self worth comes from that. She's a very complicated character. Extremely generous and helpful on the one hand but very controlling and demanding on the other.

Fil comes at different times as he doesnt get along with mil. He is.much more "normal" in the sense that he will help when we explicitly ask for help or will help with little things but won't overstep and won't involve himself too much.

Also, in mil's defence, she doesn't ignore the youngest. She is very affectionate to him as well and with him too she interferes in everything (e.g. medical decisions). But I think interacting with very young kids doesn't come naturally to her and he likes high energy, silly games so she doesn't monopolise him as much as dd.

Such people never mean well. Your mother in law has done much damage to your h and his own family unit. Not all relatives are nice and kind and some of them are actively abusive. Am not at all surprised that she and her husband do not get along because women like her cannot do relationships at all.

This.
What I picked up skimming the op - is you say she's loving -
From what you've written - she isn't.

It's nc or strong boundaries.

No. The way your MIL acts is not normal. She should not be talking to your children like this and certainly not contradicting what you say to them. The normal thing to do would be for her to back you up, whether she agrees or not - that is what I, as a grandmother, do regarding my grandchildren, because I brought my own children up how I wanted to and I respect the right of my daughter to do the same. But I’m afraid I don’t see how things will ever change unless you have a difficult conversation with her and are firm about what you will tolerate. Your DH would need to support you in this.

Given the way you know she acts, I wouldn't let your daughter go and stay with her on her own. You wouldn't know what nonsense she might be telling her.

She doesn't 'command respect' she's a bully who thinks the world revolves around her. Stop this now and either she doesn't stay with you or when she does she follows your boundaries. You sound like a nice person who just wants to please, your DH sounds like he has deep routed trauma from being raised by this woman. She is not your priority your DH and children are, don't let her rule your lives

Boundaries. Your house, your rules, your kids. Thank her for the input but be firm. If you want them to play in the dirt, let them. Find out why she is against that. Then say ‘good to know, but it doesn’t bother me’. Tell her not to bad mouth your hubby in front of the kids. Be strong! You’ve got this.