Grief over partner not being ready for a family

[Lillie1313]

Ok, so hear me out - I (31F) have a slightly complicated one here. I have two partners. I’ve been dating them both for the same amount of time (2 years) though one i’ve known for 7 years in total, whereas the other was a dating match meet 2 years ago.

Let’s call them M (30M) and F(39M). M was someone that felt like a great, stable choice of partner - great job, romantic, adventurous, and importantly London based like me. F is a much more free spirit and we share a global community of friends spread across Amsterdam, Portugal and Germany. So it made sense at the time to keep things more casual with F and start making more of a nesting partnership with M. (They both know the situation by the way, but i’m the only partner for each of them)

When I met M I wasn’t sure if I wanted to have children, but 6 months ago I really started to get the ache. My dreams are filled with children I imagine having or even sometimes I’m dreaming of crying at the idea of not having them. Since this came up; M and I have discussed and he’s been honest about the fact he doesn’t like the idea of children and it stresses him out to consider having them. Despite being loving, romantic and adventurous - i do notice that he is very easily stressed by responsibility, hates it when anyone puts expectations on him and generally seems to be to be a bit immature in his outlook on certain things - sometimes coming across quite selfish like when friends ask him for favours that would put him out a bit (whereas I would usually move mountains to help a friend in need). Despite this, he would do most things for me and really gives me so much love and support in most other areas of life - he tells me he loves me multiple times a day and takes me out once a week on date nights and randomly buys me flowers, which all makes me so happy.

F has started making it known to me that he sees things increasingly more family oriented in his future and wants to settle down. He sends me pictures of him with his Godsons who he loves and spends a lot of time with (5 and 2 y/o) and has made jokes about me marrying him and moving to Germany to get around this stupid 90 day EU policy we have now post-brexit. We’ve even taken his godson to the beach to play and he made a comment saying “imagine if this was our son…” I’m not going to lie.. it’s getting my womb doing something for sure.

The thing is, I look at F and I can see us actually making a great family. I see the way he looks after his sisters, and he’s straight there helping out with the 2 year old whenever he can to give his brother a rest. He’s attentive and loving. The thing is; he hasn’t got a great job, and he’s a smoker - two things my family would hate. The other thing is that to be with him I’d have to move to Germany. He visited the UK and honestly he just looked like a fish out of water completely. I think i’d be better off over there than him here if that’s what we did. Also, and very importantly, I love him, and have probably loved him for a long time in all honesty: he said he’s had feelings for me for 7 years even before we started anything actually romantic together.

Coming back to M - am I mad to be feeling grief stricken for a relationship that seems stunted when I have another quite beautiful option waiting ? I have a feeling that if he could heal his strange behaviours around responsibility and expectation then he might actually one day want children - but that might take him another 10 years, and I don’t know if I have that long ?

Right now I live such a comfortable life; I have spare cash to buy whatever I want (within reason). I go to the gym for 2 hours a day, I party, I go to events and the theatre and out for dinners. Wouldn’t I be giving all this up if I choose a path that has kids ? Or do you (mothers) find a way to do all this stuff still ?

Part of me wants to crush down this feeling of wanting kids and just stay in this kushty life with M, and the other wants to throw it all out and go and start building the rest of my life with F.

Has anyone got advice ?? Should I just freeze some eggs and wait this all out longer ??

I don't think bringing children into this situation is a good idea for them.
I think your suggestion of freezing your eggs and waiting sounds like the best option.

So you have two long term sexual relationships with two different men who know about each other and don’t mind that you’re not exclusive? That is unusual.

I think if you love F and you both genuinely want children, that’s a better option than trying to bend M into a different man than he is.

My main concern would be what would happen if you have a child in Germany and then split up. You wouldn’t be able to leave Germany with your child unless their father agreed to it. So you would be stuck there.

I would break up with both of them and start looking for someone suitable.

m doesn’t share your life goal of having children. It’s a nonstarter.

f is a smoker which would mean exposing your children to second and third hand smoke. It also means your children are much more likely to become smokers. He doesn’t have a good job. You would have to emigrate and give up your stability to live with someone who isn’t prepared to step up and support you financially if needed. Both moving abroad and motherhood make you vulnerable.

Is F German? when I went to Germany, I noticed that many people smoked there. It seemed much more common and acceptable than other places. I don’t think that would put me off - provided he didn’t smoke around any children you have it inside.

I loved Germany and would love to live there. I think it would be a great place to have kids.

I don't think I would set up home with a man who was happy to share me with someone else.

FFS just grow up and stop trying to be so cool.. at least of you want kids.

Just that. Any child will be fucked up by this nonsense.

You're be banging two guys at the same time and you're judging him for smoking?

If you can’t commit to either one man at the moment what makes you think you’ll be able to sustain any relationship that involves children?

Personally, I wouldn't want to date a smoker, but that was harsh.

For the large part, you won’t find a lot of sympathy for polyamory setups on MN, OP.

Set aside your ideas about M; he doesn’t want kids. Assume that, if you and F do, there will be a while where you are exclusive to each other (lack of time!) and that you and M will probably break up or at least dial right down for a bit.

So then it is: do you want to have kids with F or do you want to seek a new anchor partner, whether monogamous or not?

I don’t think you should move to Germany (unless you would otherwise want to) - he might be a fish out of water here but he may adapt with time. I would think about asking F to move here for a year, say, and see if he works as your anchor partner. Then go from there. Don’t rush into it.

P.s. I think you should let your German bf go and find someone more suitable for him ( and in the same country!) he’s obviously ready for kids but I doubt there’s any likelihood that you are going to be ready anytime soon and it’s selfish to keep someone dangling.

I don’t think you sound anywhere near mature enough to be thinking about having children. Freeze your eggs and think about therapy

Neither man is father material. One doesn’t want them and the other seems to be stringing you along or is just playing at being a Disney Dad.

At 31 if you’re serious about having children you need to dump them at start looking for someone to have children with.

Sorry, but you do sound immature and too idealistic. You are considering having children with a man you are currently only 'casually' dating, while being in a more serious relationship with someone else. If you truly see yourself having children with F, then move to be with him and make a good go of it for minimum 2 years. If by the end of that time you have a happy and stable home then I would consider starting a family.
Also: "Right now I live such a comfortable life; I have spare cash to buy whatever I want (within reason). I go to the gym for 2 hours a day, I party, I go to events and the theatre and out for dinners. Wouldn’t I be giving all this up if I choose a path that has kids ? Or do you (mothers) find a way to do all this stuff still?".
Of course you can't do all the stuff you did before children. Your lifestyle will change hugely (as it should because another being becomes your priority). Grow up.

I think if you truly loved either of these men you wouldn't be dating the other one.

I certainly wouldn't be moving to another country to marry and have a baby with a man you've only been dating casually. If you have a baby in Germany and then you split up with F you may well find yourself stuck in Germany until your child is an adult.

I would end it with both of them and look for a monogamous relationship with a man who is on the same page as you and who you love enough to actually be exclusive with.

You seem to enjoy your life as it is. I don’t think that you’re ready for a baby. You may never be. And neither of these men are the right candidates to be fathers, they sound immature and both seem happy to have an arms length nonmonogamous relationship with you.

None of this is meant as a criticism btw. Live and let live! There’s no “right” way to be. But kids need an element of stability.

I'm assume you're a very affluent, or even rich person, and that this type of relationship is more common in those circles.

What kind of job does F have? Does he have a regular job, as opposed to investment banking of being a director of a large corporation? Bit sad that your family wouldn't approve if he's ideal in other ways.

Being around a limited amount of wealthy people, there seems to be a disproportionate amount of them that come from emotionally neglectful or chaotic or chaotic childhoods, existing in units that seem quite detached and lacking in warmth, support & closeness. Take note if this is you, to stop patterns and make sure you don't repeat them.

You are feeling lost right now, so that's coming across, but there's something a bit chaotic about the way you write as well. I'm wondering if you've spent a really large part of your life enjoying the romantic drama of this set-up and now it's a bit of a shock that you might be with two men and neither, for your own reasons, are ideal for having children with.

I would stay well clear of M. He's nice & romantic to you for now, but the way you describe how he is to his friends make him sound naturally stingy with his time and emotional support. His other qualities are really not suited with being a good father. I think you'd have a lot of strife and with him.

You say you love F...but really it sounds to me you'll be turned off by him, eventually. You describe his good qualities to be a father, but otherwise, your description of him is extremely minimal and luke warm compared to how you describe M.

I would ask yourself - do I respect this man, or do I simply love how he makes me feel when I'm around him, for the things he does for me or gives me, rather than him as an individual, whole person?

Also.....don't be sure they're not seeing someone else, at least occasionally, and that they would repeat that dishonesty once you have children.

Realistically, no, you won't be able to go to the gym 2 hours a day and parties and events, you would be working and then rushing back to pick up the baby from nursery if they are in one, or looking after them at home. Even if you have a supportive husband, your lifestyle would not resemble what it does now, not for many many years.

I agree with everyone, neither sounds right- M sounds a non-starter as he doesn't want kids, and F seems to be playing fantasy relationships, but note he just says imaginary stuff like 'oh it would be nice if...', no concrete plans to move you to Germany and marry you and build a family at all. It's all just speculation and he might run a mile if you actually turned up.

I don't think either of these men is quite what you are looking for, and that's why you have two of them, to make up one whole one you like, but that's not sustainable for you long-term, especially if you settled in the UK and F is in Germany and doesn't 'work' over here (I don't get this, German people do fine in the UK no?)

I get the vibe that the only thing turning you on to F as a permanent/main partner is his (supposed) willingness to have children. But I think there is a reason you haven't moved to Germany to be with him, that he is more casual and that you've chosen to be in a "main" relationship with someone else. Also - does he even want this? He's made no commitments to you, presumably also for a reason.

You can't wait on M to start wanting children, something that may never happen. And because he is your "main" partner, you are not freed up to be with anyone else.

Children ideally need parents in a stable relationship who live together. At the moment that rules out both M and F.

I would break up with M, because he doesn't want children and you do.

You can keep seeing F as you are for the time being, because that arrangement works for you. But I would not be in a rush to up sticks to Germany.

Go out and try to meet someone you like better than just casual who also would like to have family. Accept that such a person is probably not going to be okay with you continuing a romantic/sexual relationship with F.

I think you need to decide once and for all who you want to be with and then plan your family. You can’t have kids with 2 separate men and play happily families.

Break up with both of them and look for someone in the uk who wants DCs.

Don't stay with someone who's a man child himself.

Dont ever have a DC with someone who lives abroad. If you split you can't bring your DC back to the uk. You may not be allowed to stay abroad and so lose your dc. No man is ever worth that!

This.

it would be irresponsible to bring children into this

M sounds EXACTLY like the guy I'm dating . Except the guy I'm dating wants children . We are currently expecting & unfortunately I made a huge mistake by getting pregnant by this loser . Don't make the same mistake .

Not wanting kids would be a deal breaker for me personally, so I would definitely break up with M. He made be a good partner in many ways, but if you want kids and he doesn't then that's too big a difference to get past.

F is trickier. Personally I would want to move to Germany but maybe you're open to the idea.

Maybe neither of these men is right for you?

It sounds like neither of these guys is quite right. Rather than dating both of them, and getting some of what you want from each, break up with them and find Mr. Right. You’re only tolerating each one’s shortcoming because of what the other has to offer. That’s not a long-term solution.