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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Marriage Problems

18 replies

LegoCity2024 · 18/08/2024 07:27

I’m in an unhappy marriage - from my side it’s not been right for ten years or more, however we have three children and I’ve stayed because of them. I’ve tried to talk to my husband about it on three separate occasions but he always persuades me that we need to stay together.

He’s not aggressive towards me, he's financially supported the family while I’ve been a stay at home mum (recently gone back to work now the kids are older).

My main points for wanting to separate are his negative behaviours. I don’t feel comfortable around him and I don’t really enjoy his company. The house feels so much brighter when he’s not in it. I find myself not wanting to be in the same room as him. Aside from the kids we have nothing in common. We don’t agree on anything, but we don’t have big arguments (mainly because he won’t allow raised voices in the house), his attitude towards the rest of the world is mostly negative and judgemental. Me or the kids often get the blame for most things that go wrong in the house - even if he breaks something - it’s usually because I didn’t put it away properly. If I’m washing up, loading the dishwasher, cooking tea, he comes in and tells me to do it a different way, or asks me why I’m doing it that way, so much so that he does most of those things now, because I just don’t want to. He mocks my hobbies (but then says it’s only a joke). He gets angry at the kids for the tiniest things, dropping crumbs, spilling drinks, making loud noises, running up and down the stairs. If me and the kids are doing something creative and causing a mess, it upsets him, especially if we don’t clear it up straight away. I’ve called him out on all of these things and he tries to reign it in for a while but after a period of time he defaults back to factory settings.

And things like when he nips to the shop to get a few bits and bobs and rings me to ask if I want anything from Greggs, and I say no thank you, but he comes home with a donut anyway, then gets upset when I tell him I didn’t want anything. It’s nice that he bought me one but am I right to refuse it because I didn’t want one!? It’s like I’m made to feel guilty for not wanting this treat but I specifically said I didn’t want one.

An outsider would see him as a caring, fun loving Dad and husband, and a good time person - he's funny, generous, friendly. And he definitely is all of those things, the kids love him and would be devastated if we separated.

When I question his behaviour he says it’s genetic and he was raised that way so can’t help it. When I say I want to leave because of all these things, he says he’s spent years bottling everything up because I’ve not given him what he needs in the relationship. He has loved me and I’ve not loved him back so it creates a build up of tension inside him which causes his negativity and angry outbursts.

I said that’s all the more reason to separate, but he wants to fight for our relationship. Do I need to stay because I’ve made him this way? Do I need to stay for the kids? Do I need to stay because it’s upsetting him that I want to leave? Is it okay to ask for a divorce simply because I’m unhappy? Is it right to cause unrest in my children’s lives because I feel uncomfortable in my own home? Should I wait it out?

I’m paranoid that I’m magnifying his personality traits to make it sound a good enough reason to leave. But I did try to leave 13 years ago and he persuaded me to stay. So from his side it’s me that’s the problem because I’m cold and don’t give him enough affection, but he made me stay when I didn’t want to. Maybe it is my fault.

Somebody please offer me something in the way of advice, experience or just some words. I’ve not talked to anyone about this, my mum passed away so I can’t talk to her. I’ve got hardly any friends. I’m just completely lost.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 18/08/2024 07:31

It sounds miserable and stifling.

You can't stand being in the same room as him, you need to end it.

EVHead · 18/08/2024 07:32

You can end the relationship for any reason or no reason. You’re unhappy - that’s enough.

He sounds horrible and he’s abusive. Your kids are growing up in an abusive household.

If I were you I’d make plans to leave.

VenusOfTheKitchen · 18/08/2024 07:35

I'm no expert on happy relationships but would it be worth trying couples counselling to see if anything improves?

ACynicalDad · 18/08/2024 07:42

There just sounds like too much wrong to be solvable. He’s a (possibly low level) narcissist doing just enough to make your life a misery without doing a single totally awful thing, which makes you feel you should stay. Well done getting a job, I think you need to build an exit plan, I don’t think this will ever change.

TipsyJoker · 18/08/2024 08:22

Read this.

https://ia600600.us.archive.org/31/items/hybridphilosophy-collection/The-Covert-Passive-Aggressive-Narcissist-by-Debbie-Mirza.pdf

Your husband sounds like a covert passive aggressive narcissist and abusive. Yes you can leave him if you’re unhappy. He’s been subtly gaslighting you for a very long time and that’s why you can’t trust your own judgment. And if he’s causing a horrible atmosphere in the house, he’s damaging your children too. What do you mean the doesn’t, “allow” raised voices in the house? This man has you so controlled you can’t even use your own voice as you’d like and the kids can’t be children because he dictates how everything must be. And him ignoring your boundaries by bringing you things you’ve said you do not want is just a subtle way to corrode said boundaries and your right to autonomy. At the same time it allows him to say, “look what a loving thoughtful person I am bringing gifts to my ungrateful wife. Woe is me. I am the victim here.” No, he’s not. He’s abusive. People think abuse is loud and violent but some of the worst abuse is quiet and insidious. It destroys your self of self whilst making you seem like the problem. You are NOT the problem here. Read the book I’ve shared and then contact women’s aid to help you make an exit plan. Knowing what I do about abusive men, when you do split up with him he will likely play the victim and try to destroy you. Be prepared for that. Document everything. Write down in a book, everything he’s done that you can think of and how it made you feel. It will start building back your self whilst also servicing as evidence of his history of abuse should you need it. If you both own/rent your home, apply to the court for an occupation order so you and the children can remain in the house and he will have to leave. Do not tell him anything as you don’t want to tip him off about what you’re doing because covert narcs are the sneakiest of all sneaks and he will use any information you give him against you.
olease seek support because it sounds like you need it. Women’s aid can help and doing the freedom program will be very good for you. Best of luck.

LegoCity2024 · 18/08/2024 08:29

Just reading your comments is making me cry, I've no idea how to go about this. Really appreciate the advice. I'm going to start making a plan I think. Just a terrifying prospect.

OP posts:
TipsyJoker · 18/08/2024 08:47

LegoCity2024 · 18/08/2024 08:29

Just reading your comments is making me cry, I've no idea how to go about this. Really appreciate the advice. I'm going to start making a plan I think. Just a terrifying prospect.

It’s a lot to take in and it will be hard to digest. Take your time and let it sink in. Contact women’s aid. Have a look at their page first and do some reading. Listen to some podcasts about surviving narcissistic abuse. When you’re ready, contact women’s aid and get the support you need to leave the relationship.

https://www.womensaid.org.uk

Also there are domestic abuse support pages on here I believe and Facebook have a page called Freedom Flowers Domestic Violence and Freedom Programme, which is run by survivors and helps many women. You might consider joining that.

If you have any family or friends you can speak to, please do. I realise this can be difficult but you need all the support you can get.

It’s scary but getting free will be the best thing you’ve ever done for yourself and for your children. Living in a peaceful home without his negative energy will be like a weight being lifted. You can do this. You are stronger than you know.

Home - Women's Aid

Women's Aid is a grassroots federation working together to provide life-saving services and build a future where domestic violence is not tolerated.

https://www.womensaid.org.uk

TipsyJoker · 18/08/2024 08:50

Also, PP suggested marriage counselling but this isn’t advised with abusive partners because it gives them ammunition to use against you and further abuse. Just keep that in mind as he may suggest it too in order to stop you leaving and make it seem like he’s going to change. He won’t. These men never change. Read the previous book about passive aggressive narcissists and also read this

https://dn790007.ca.archive.org/0/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf

It will help you see how these men’s minds work and how they never change.

https://dn790007.ca.archive.org/0/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf

LegoCity2024 · 21/08/2024 21:34

I don't know if anyone will see this now, but we had the talk about us splitting up, and as predicted he doesn't want it to happen. And I'm really worried that I'm being completely selfish. All those things I said in my original post are true, but he's not like that all the time. And he says he just wants me to be happy. He's really worried about how it will affect the kids, he can't believe I would want to put them through it. He thinks I am not thinking straight. He wants us to get help. Thinks I need help. Hormones etc. He says he loves me, and has always loved me and that he has been patient with me when 'I've not been myself' and has been happy to stay with me, even when I've had problems (I've not really had any problems, he's been my problem!). And when he says that we should get help, I really don't want to. I REALLY don't want to try and make it work. It's like all these years have led me to this point, and I'm at the point of no return. Can I be that selfish to not want to save a long lasting marriage? Can I be that selfish to cause disruption to my kids?

OP posts:
TipsyJoker · 22/08/2024 00:14

LegoCity2024 · 21/08/2024 21:34

I don't know if anyone will see this now, but we had the talk about us splitting up, and as predicted he doesn't want it to happen. And I'm really worried that I'm being completely selfish. All those things I said in my original post are true, but he's not like that all the time. And he says he just wants me to be happy. He's really worried about how it will affect the kids, he can't believe I would want to put them through it. He thinks I am not thinking straight. He wants us to get help. Thinks I need help. Hormones etc. He says he loves me, and has always loved me and that he has been patient with me when 'I've not been myself' and has been happy to stay with me, even when I've had problems (I've not really had any problems, he's been my problem!). And when he says that we should get help, I really don't want to. I REALLY don't want to try and make it work. It's like all these years have led me to this point, and I'm at the point of no return. Can I be that selfish to not want to save a long lasting marriage? Can I be that selfish to cause disruption to my kids?

You are not being selfish. He is gaslighting you. He is also blaming all of this on you. Look up DARVO. That is what he is doing here. He is making himself out to be the victim who has stayed with you, (the problem) but the reality is, he is the problem. He is the one who is putting the kids through a shitty upbringing where they have to walk on eggshells and aren’t emotionally safe. Not you. If he wasn’t abusive then the children wouldn’t be going through anything. He is using them as a weapon against you. He is using them to guilt trip you into staying with him and putting up with more years of his abuse. Is that what you want for your children? Is that what you want to model to them as healthy? Abusers aren’t horrible all the time. It’s called the cycle of abuse. They will be good to you some of the time to keep you there.

https://www.domesticshelters.org/articles/identifying-abuse/what-is-the-cycle-of-abuse

https://www.choosingtherapy.com/darvo/

You cannot work on anything with this man. He will not change. He will only get worse. Don’t tell him you’re ending the relationship because that is the most dangerous time for women. Contact women’s aid and make an exit plan. Stay safe until then. Get all important documents in order like birth certificates, passports, bank stuff, house stuff, etc and keep them together in a place he won’t find them. If you drive and have your own car, keep them in the book out of sight. Don’t listen to his poison. Notice how he says he wants to work on it and then proceeds to blame everything on you. He takes no responsibility. And he never will. It will always be you who is the problem, despite that being completely untrue. Did you read the book, “Why does he do that?” I shared before? If not, I would highly suggest that you do because it will peel off the veil and show you what exactly is happening and who he really is. Please stay safe.

What is the Cycle of Abuse?

Domestic abuse often follows a four-stage Cycle of Abuse, but victims don’t have to stay trapped.

https://www.domesticshelters.org/articles/identifying-abuse/what-is-the-cycle-of-abuse

XChrome · 22/08/2024 00:28

He's manipulating you OP. It's all a bunch of bullshit.
It's ridiculous for him to say leaving him would be worse for the kids than staying with a man who loses his temper over normal kid behavior and is negative all the time. I think you should leave not just for yourself, but for your kids. That is not a happy home with him in it. You must be walking in eggshells and so are the kids.

Noseybookworm · 22/08/2024 00:45

He doesn't get to dictate to you that you have to stay in the marriage. I think you need to be very clear and say - I'm not happy and haven't been for a long time. I don't love you any more. I'm going to see a solicitor and file for divorce.

Then you can refuse to engage in any more conversations about it. Just tell him you've said all you have to say and you're not listening to any more of his opinions. You are done. Say it and keep saying it. Get yourself some legal advice asap. The next few months will be tough but you will be fine and your children will be fine. Don't let him sway you.

TipsyJoker · 22/08/2024 12:58

Noseybookworm · 22/08/2024 00:45

He doesn't get to dictate to you that you have to stay in the marriage. I think you need to be very clear and say - I'm not happy and haven't been for a long time. I don't love you any more. I'm going to see a solicitor and file for divorce.

Then you can refuse to engage in any more conversations about it. Just tell him you've said all you have to say and you're not listening to any more of his opinions. You are done. Say it and keep saying it. Get yourself some legal advice asap. The next few months will be tough but you will be fine and your children will be fine. Don't let him sway you.

I wouldn’t advise this. Having worked with women experiencing domestic abuse, ending the relationship is the most dangerous time. It’s better to contact women’s aid, make an exit plan and not tell him anything. This way op can get her affairs in order and leave the relationship safely. She can do things like get an occupation order to allow her and the children to remain in the family home and for him to be made to leave for example, causing the least disruption and giving them a safe place to stay without having to leave.

LegoCity2024 · 22/08/2024 16:40

Thanks for all the advice I really appreciate it so much. I think if I say nothing else to him he’ll assume I’m staying, because it’s clear he thinks I’m crazy for wanting to leave - he can’t comprehend it. So I’m going to gradually make my plan to separate from him one way or another. Just need to start the ball rolling. Just being on here has really opened my eyes, and yes I read both books which were very interesting!

OP posts:
TipsyJoker · 22/08/2024 22:21

LegoCity2024 · 22/08/2024 16:40

Thanks for all the advice I really appreciate it so much. I think if I say nothing else to him he’ll assume I’m staying, because it’s clear he thinks I’m crazy for wanting to leave - he can’t comprehend it. So I’m going to gradually make my plan to separate from him one way or another. Just need to start the ball rolling. Just being on here has really opened my eyes, and yes I read both books which were very interesting!

Please let us know how you get on. I wish you all the very best. You’re doing the right thing.

LegoCity2024 · 02/11/2024 08:43

I filed for divorce yesterday! Just wanted to say thanks so much to everyone, if I hadn't posted on here I think I would still be in that miserable situation. There's a long way to go, but I can see light at the end of the tunnel now.

OP posts:
nfkl · 02/11/2024 08:51

Happy to read this OP, wishing you the best

XChrome · 02/11/2024 20:43

Great news, OP. It won't be easy, as this sort of person always causes problems during the divorce process, but remember that the pain is finite. The pain of staying would have been infinite.

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