My marriage is crumbling

[Nooneshome]

So my DH and I have been pretty absent from each other for a long time, not even sure how long.

BACKGROUND: I gave up pretty good career to tend to home and kids. Domestic front has been go go go with pretty huge property renovation that I took responsibility for and was well out of my depth - about 2 years of my life consumed with the crap that this entailed. 2 great kids aged 5 and 2 that we adore and I'm 3 months pregnant, both happy about this.
Whilst I've been doing home stuff his career has gone from strength to strength and he's been very very busy,often abroad and very successful. Generally I feel left out and that there is never any time for me. He's on a career break at the minute and is helping at home a lot whilst I feel crap with early stages of pregnancy. But we've not really done anything just the 2 of us. He's also been away on his own alot with mates playing golf and skiing etc. This has been fine with me as I know he wants to travel. We have done a lot of travelling as a family and I am not really interested in doing more until things are happier.

Anyway on of these recent trips he started up a 'platonic relationship' with a woman I sort of know through our extended circle of friends. In the course of a night out, just the 2 of them he told her we were having marital problems and listened to her talking about her ongoing divorce. It then went further when he got home and the contact continued so that he could give her career advice - standard stuff for him he's good at that kind of thing. THey started texting and emailing each other a lot. He looked into her joining him or meeting up with him on a couple of further trips he was thinking about and discussed it with her, one with his sister and one with our daughter. They were texting on my daughters birthday, on the way back from taking her on a birthday treat and as we were packing up from her party, on morning of a scan I had privately as I am worried I might miscarry again - although no medical reason to worry, as well as first thing in morning and last thing at night and throughout day but not everyday. Only a couple of actual phone calls. They also emailed and she has passed comment about me 'such a shame I am unhappy about him taking our 5 year old away without me'. This went on for about 2 weeks and I found out. I've seen his phone records so know about how many calls and texts from him and have seen some of the emails and heard one of her messages - she signed off lots of love. Her last text said 'I know I probably should not be sending this but I will anyway' and she attached a cute photo of her together with her nephew and niece on London Eye. I insisted he told her to stop contact and he did and it has. He said he was flattered by the attention and he has been in bits with the state of our relationship and my rejection of him. I have been telling him for ages that I was unhappy and wanted things to change and have been hurting a lot by his lack of interest in me, probably all made worse by a miscarriage last August and feeling physically very exhausted until about December.

At the same time as all the flirting was going on he has been looking at internet and books to try and see a way forward to saving our marriage. He has also been trying hard to give me a hand on the domestic front - quite a change from normal.

He says he wants to save our marriage and feels strongly that divorce would be disastrous for the kids. I have previously threatened divorce but only because I am so desperate for him to recognise how unhappy I am, a threat I think I wish I hadn't made as he said it has had a huge effect on him.

I can't resolve how I feel about all of this. I don't want to split for any of our sakes but do not know what a good relationship would be like with him - it feels like its been so hard and unrewarding for so long. We have feelings for each other and the sex is still great but we are both hurting so much and blame the other.

I am not really jealous of the stuff with this other woman she is older than me and not a great looker!! I don't believe he fancied her or was looking for sex. But I feel really betrayed by the attention he was giving her. I had father and stepfather run off with other women and betrayal-infidelity is a huge thing for me.

At first I felt sorry for him and how crap he'd been feeling but now I'm so angry and hurt. He says I need to forgive and forget. I'm worried it could happen again. And I also am not sure how I feel about us....

How do we move forward?

I think you would benefit from professional help - god that sounds insulting! I mean Relate...they really are the best way forward. Sometimes you just can't struggle and sort it on your own, you need a third person - professional, trained, neutral....

what are your main reasons for feeling so unhappy? (female out of equation)...spell it out if you can. you mention lack of interest but aren't very specific.

you sound knackered. x

I do feel knackered and have done for a long time. I am hopeful that physically I am just starting to feel better. My head feels numb and tired on the issue of our marriage. I just feel like we have been going round in circles and living separate lives.
I think its the separate lives thing that gets me and the inequality in our relationship. He has his great career, opportunities, social contact and the expectation (until recently) that he can go out whenever he wants and I will be there for kids. I've given up loads of my old social contact and I think self-esteem through giving up work. I have loads of new Mummy friends and live in an area of London where there are hundreds of kiddy activities to go to and have as much company as I want in the day. But I don't have an active husband. There's just a man who shares the house and parenting. Although we do have sex there is no real intimacy between us. We don't discuss things, go out, do things together. He pays so much attention to his friends, sports mates, work associates and various others - he always on the phone making time for people and being lovely to them but not to me. If we spend an evening together its in silence or else bitching about our marriage.
If we do things together I arrange them and have to carefully coordinate with his diary. But I've stopped doing this kind of thing as we generally don't have much fun together.

On the counseling thing - we've discussed it and with a couple similar to us who have gone through it and are fearful that it would not work and could do more harm than good. My husband is really into self help and I am willing to give it a go. We met a lovely couple at a wedding who are in the counseling line of work and they counsel with a view to making the marriage work and not dealing with the blaming of why it gets in a mess and we think that is the most positive way forward The problem I have is having faith that it can be a lot better in the future, I feel that so much has been taken out of me and I think he has such a low opinion of me that seems to be very established now.

I don't know how to move on and try to view things differently.

Nooneshome, I would definitely advise you go and see a trained therapist. There can be a long waiting list for Relate, so if you can afford it, think about going private to a couples counsellor. It will be hard, but it sounds like you do both want this to work. That is the best basis from which to start. Don't feel shame at going to see someone to help you struggle to resolve your issues. Whatever happens, I am sure you will come out of the counselling happier.

Good luck.

I am already starting to feel happier. Its been so cathartic writing here. Although I am still very confused about my husband and marriage, I can see that I have been wallowing in it and his recent behaviour has given me an excuse to do this more. I think I've got to pull myself out of my misery a bit!!

I get an impression that this is about two things- firstly, you sound tired and under-stimulated and secondly, you feel somewhat neglected by your partner. Overall I get a feeling that until you sort out the first thing, the relationship will always be under stress...I think some time spent thinking about what YOU want to be doing with your time and energy and how to restructure your life so that you feel you exist as a human beyond mummy and wife. What job did you do before? Because you're pregnant obviously you're somewhat restricted, but you have choices and options. Do you have any money to spare for developing interests/extending childcare?

You sound left behind even though I'm sure your job as a mother is fulfilling and rewarding- it's not only who you are and your husband's whizzing around is no doubt making you feel resentful.

If your DH is into counselling, you'd be mad not to give it a try. You need to make some bold moves here to jolt yourself and your relationship out of the rut that it's in.

sorry, also meant to mention, the OW situ sounds like there wasn't alot going on but definately a bit of circling round each other and flirtation which is bad enough to make you feel shit...the counselling would help you to express that anger. I can see how it happened though but it doesn't excuse it. I doubt he's going to have an affair though- it does sound like he loves you and wants to make it work.

The miscarriage must have had an awful impact on both of you and consequently your relationship- as the grief of that dealt with?

I had a very early miscarriage before my first DC and was so surprised at the depth of my feeling for something that was only a few weeks old- it knocked me for six... you've had alot to dealt with, no wonder you feel drained.

as = has

Nooneshome, the marriage you describe sounds like the marriage a friend of mine had. She got into the 'baby trap' and SAHM life while her dh took off in his career and simply left her behind even though they had the same education, similar jobs before she got pregnant. Over the years the rift deepened and after 2 affairs he walked out on her and her kids and into the arms of OW. She saw the relationship moving out of sync but didn't know how to stop it, sort of kidding herself that this was just the way longterm relationships go. She also stopped putting him before the kids and didn't want to accompany him to job events, client dinners and other things because she wasn't interested and thought she had noting to say anyway. We (her GFs) have all had to pick up the pieces for her and her dc and felt utterly sad and betrayed for her. Yet we also think she should have done something to break the vicious cycle which she was in because we told her for years that he seemed to be slipping away.

I think you're definitely ahead of it all with realizing this is not the way you envisage your marriage and you want thins to change. I'd suggest a counsellor asap and some much needed time out from being a mother 24/7. What were you and your dh like when you still worked, when it was just you two, no kids? What inspires you as a person? What do you feel strongly about? What does he enjoy that you could do together? I think you just need to bond again. Feel as a couple, not just as parents.

I'm surprised by how you've hit the nail on the head MrsMacaroon and Alexa808. I think this situation probably does have a lot to do with how I feel about myself. I do love being a Mum but am missing being the successful centre of attention figure I used to be when I worked as a lawyer. I'm tempted to go back but doubt I could hack it now. I went back when my DD was 5 months working about half the hours I did previously and loved it but the stress of managing the domestic scene and working got to me so I stopped after about 18 months. I've already started thinking of alternatives and have thought about some voluntary work that I could do. I also intend to get everything set up for a business (part-time from home I've already got the qualifications) I've been thinking about for about 2 years and will try to get everything ready for when DC no 3 reaches 6months. Its working as a personal trainer so I can't really do it at the minute as I can run for about 5 minutes but look fairly challenged - not impressive to clients!
I think sorting myself out and regaining my own personal happiness is my priority at the moment. Hopefully in the course of that I will start to work out how I feel about the husband and get some optimism back.

My husband has read all of this and was aware that I was posting. He was very worried that I'd get responses having a go at him and he's been very impressed by the quality answers - he agrees with you!!

I've got a couple of friends in similar positions, like your friend Alexa808, its probably a bit of a classic. You start out with the same hopes and opportunities as husband, kids come, things change, couple start moving in different circles and things start going wrong.

We may try counselling - anyone been through it?

Nooneshome, you know what, I might as well be you in a few years. I think that's why I feel so strongly about the situation you were in. My dp and I meet through work, we both held jobs in the City. He was overseeing operations globally, I was a Sales Trader and then headed a carbon team. When he got the job in Singapore I gave up mine to be with him, I'm also nearly 4 months pregnant and even though I tried, there's no immediate job for me here (even though I worked in Singapore before). Already I can feel the balance of power shifting. Ad I'm depressed about it at times. Thank God we're in Asia where maids, wet nurses and drivers come at little cost - yet giving your baby into someone elses hands is tough and my dp is quite traditional in his way of thinking.

I agree with MrsMacaroon, the MC must have definitely left an empty place between you and your dh. The counselling could open up a dialogue on it and the issue of you finding a new compass/orientation in life. What you are planning sounds really exciting and feasible. Also, if you added nutrition planning or a home studio you could spend some more time at home drawing up plans for your clients, you wouldn't have to leave the house. (I'm intrinsically lazy...).

I think it's great you are sharing this with your dh! This is such a good base of love and trust. I think we all like a compliment and appreciation but that is healthy as long as the marriage with you is strong and the main outlet for feelings, physical and emotional. I'm wishing you all the best for the months ahead and good luck with the counselling. I've never been through it but I'm sure other MNs will come along with answers. I read that Relate is one of the preferred groups and they do guides, too. Maybe you could read a guide first and then decide what suits you best.

Alexa808 - How long have you been in Singapore. Were you in London before? Is this your first baby? I too can associate with you. My DH earns good money and we have cleaner and part-time nanny. But an easy life is not necessarily a happy one, especially if you start getting bored and feel left behind, trapped and stuck.

I think I'm OK with the mc. It was an unplanned pregnancy and we've never had any bad luck on that front before and all is well so far this time although I am overly anxious for my 12 wk scan next Friday. But at the time I had a hard time. I'm generally used to success and so found it hard to bear plus my emotions were out of my control for a while and my husband just didn't get it and was fairly useless, I still blame him a bit for that. But a counsellor I saw at the time explained that men are generally pretty bad at that kind of thing, they like to solve problems and if they can't, they don't know what to do and it makes them feel crap so they withdraw or ignore the problem!

Over the last few days I've realised that I am in a rut and that this is probably the biggest factor in my marriage being in a mess. So I'm planning on getting legal\political charity work and doing a little bit of light very part-time courtwork (the latter option just for a couple of months) to keep my options open for returning to work when baby no 3 gets to the right age. Also I aim to get everything set up whilst pregnant to really go for the personal trainer business when I am recovered from pregnancy and birth. If I do both of these I've got options for 2009 and beyond. I've already done a nutrition course and I have a home studio that is largely unused at the minute. I did all the courses ages ago but just started to feel knackered and lacking in enthusiasm so nothing has happened to get the business going.

I hope if I start to feel better about myself, I can feel better about my husband and marriage. He is a good bloke and I was once crazy about him wheras recently he has just been driving me crazy!

We are going to give counselling a go, DH is to arrange it. I think I've got perspective on the flirting with the OW business and my anger is subsiding. It didn't amount to much and I don't think it ever would have and it has turned out to be a conduit for both of us to really engage and face the mess we are in.

About your situation I know so many women who have given up good careers once kids came along. Many of them are struggling some far more than me. One I know was a city lawyer doing M and A work - she just hit the bottle and was basically a drunk for the first year of her first baby's life. Just yesterday my husband met her husband and she is doing a lot better now and has just had a second baby and things are completely different. But apparantly another woman we know is self-harming, clearly hurting a lot living out in sticks having left London in preparation for first baby, but husband is in Asia a lot and she is alone.

Do you want to work in Singapore? If you don't think its a good idea with the baby or its not possible, can you use your present situation as an opportunity to do something different. Overseeing a property renovation and training as a personal trainer sustained me for a good while until about a year ago. At that point my husband was seriously ill. I put everything on hold, but he's been fully recovered for months and I've lost my way. but at least I'm starting to see that now.

Thanks for your kind and supportive words Sometimes its good to hear stories like that of you and your friend just to know that what I'm going through is common.