Why is my mum beign such a bag and what can I do?

[bohemianbint]

Recently have had a few issues with my mum; she's done some crap things (cutting DS's hair without asking, telling everyone I was pregnant when we specifically asked not to, to name but two) which I have had to bring up with her.

I've been very diplomatic and every time she has responded by being incredibly defensive and angry, and really quite horrible to me. I can't leave DS with my parents until we iron a few things out but it doesn't seem possible to have a rational conversation; the t&c's of them looking after him seem to be that they can do whatever they like, ignore everything I say and if I do dare to raise issues with my mum I get my head bitten off and told I'm all kinds of pathetic. (We're not talking small things here either, she actually won't fasten the car seat in, won't learn how, won't call us to ask for help with it.)

We're getting married in a couple of weeks and wanting immediate family and no fuss - parents blew it into something massive and started dictating who must be invited. So we said we wouldn't bother having anyone there. We have since sorted the situation, but my mum came round all shitty last night having a go and saying she "wasn't being blamed for us not doing anything", when actually no one had said anything of the sort and my dad had been as bad.

I just don't know how to handle paranoia and aggressiveness like that and I really don't need the stress at nearly 6 months pregnant. She won't help to sort any of the issues that need straightening but you can tell there's a very thin veneer of civilty under which she's dying to have a go at me. It's leaving a very bad taste and souring the whole wedding thing.

What can I do about this? Would really appreciate some advice as it's really wearing me down.

Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too.

ATM - Good post....

I get quite a few of these on a regular basis...

A few days ago, I told my mum that she might as well be done with it and shove a TOMTOM up my a*se so she'd know where I was at any particular second.......

She wasn't impressed and I got the whole 'how can you do that / say that to me'

Trouble is, if the kids of toxic parents found it that easy to stand up to their parents, it would probably not have got to this point in the first place..

It does (IMHO) make it much worse when there is a sibling who accepts the behaviour hook line and sinker, as they are constantly wheeled out as 'the example' of a good child............. that's something you can;t argue with because, if you were to ask my sister, she'd tell you (and honestly believe it) that the problem was mine and our parents are perfectly rational!

Your mum sounds EXACTLY like mine, was total control freak growing up, I moved far away when I went to uni to get away, got on better for a while until it came to planning my wedding, she ruined the planning experience in so many ways, telling me what to do and who to inmvite, even had to move the wedding date to a week later cause her best friend was on holiday the week we wanted to have it! She caused me so much stress and was horrid to my husband too. Basically a problem arose whenever I stood up for myself/expressed an oppinion on what I wanted for my wedding - she too kept calling me pathetic and childish etc. As this cause lots of arguments she started slagging me off to my best friend, brothers sil etc and when they refused to agree with her or back her up she started being nasty to them too. My dad was no better, backing her up in every silly argument and even having a go at me 'for her' the night before my wedding. Anyway, we just about scraped through the wedding with them there despite me threatening several times that if she didn't change I didn't want her there (she didn't change). She carried on after wedding being nasty to me and both my brothers and all our partners and then tried to ruin my brothers weeding the following year. I have no contact with my parents and haven't done for 2 and a half years, neither do my brothers, they're not invited to my other brothers wedding either.
Can't see a way to resolve it as shes so unreasonable and my dad backs her up so she thinks she's right!
Anyway sorry thats not really advice but just wanted you to know i'm in the same sort of situation. They don't know i've had a baby as I didn't want the stress whilst I was pregnant and I wouldn't trust them to look after him either

It's ironic, though, isn't it: Expressing an opinion (the one sign of independence) will bring on a slew of 'oh, grow up / be an adult / don't be silly' comments!!!

My mother still blames the person closest to me (usually DH now) if I express an opinion that doesn't fit with hers.. She's still largely incapable of believing I actually might have a rational / independant / adult thought of my own!!!

I think you are right though: There are two choices: Cut off contact or draw a line in the sand and stick to it........ My mum keeps going on about being with me for the birth of my baby... I just laugh and say No... She doesn't know which hospital I'm going to, just to be careful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not ready (don't want to) break off contact, but I refuse to let her take over my life..........

Hi youcannotbeserious,

Re your comment:-

"Trouble is, if the kids of toxic parents found it that easy to stand up to their parents, it would probably not have got to this point in the first place.."

I think though it would have got to such a point regardless. Standing up to them and confronting them is often not done without much agony of the toxic parents' victim beforehand. Many children who are now adults of toxic parents often painfully realise themselves the full reality of their childhood when they themselves become parents. It's very painful in an emotional sense.

Children (now adults) of toxic parents do find it very difficult. If you read the "stately homes" threads you will see many examples of toxic behaviours shown by parents to their children who are now adults.

I think you are right to keep saying NO to your Mother.

As your sister agrees with your Mother she is still favoured. As you have realised that your Mum's behaviour is toxic you are scapegoated as a result. Its typical in such dysfunctional families; everyone has a set role. Often the men in such families are active bystanders to the poor treatment meted out to the child.

You may also find reading "Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward helpful as a starting point. Toxic parents can often become toxic grandparents as well. This is all about power and control. If your Mother has a narcissitic personality she will never accept you as an individual with your own feelings and thoughts.

Do you? I'm not sure - I mean, if I'd started to deal with my mother the way I do now say, 10 years ago (or even better, 20 years ago!), surely she wouldn't be as entrenched now? The problem is, for a long time, I kept thinking that she would get better. It's only quite recently I've come to the conclusion that it won't change ever... I can either deal with that or I can stop contact and as I said, I'm not prepared to stop contact with her. I don't think she means to be the way she is......... and I think she is largely driven by fear.. I have wondered whether I too would become like my mother - but I think DH will be on my case at the slightest hint of that happening!

My father is soooo typical - active bystander is a perfect description for him!!

I keep meaning to get into the Stately homes thread - I really must!! thanks!

Elope. Move far, far away.

I'm serious.

You can't let them look after him while this is going on. TBH, I think the hardest thing of growing up is to accept what you are willing to accept and what you aren't. She is clearly a controlling woman, and still has a strong hold on you. If someone else on Mumsnet was asking for advice related to the car seat issue - admit it, you would jump up straight away and say - there is no way the child can flap around in the back seat - sort it out!

I know about controlling parents, and would strongly recommend that you remove yourself from the situation. Do not discuss anything, just present as a fait accompli, and do not ask them to look after your son. Inconvenient - yes, maybe on the face of it. But by asking for their help, you are opening the door to interference.

Parents can adapt to the new regime - trust me! But only if they know you are for real and that the controlling is not going to work on you any more. Your family is no longer them, they are your extended family. So everything you consider has to be based on yourselves, with only secondary consideration of outsiders.

One final word of warning - do not get into discussions, but also, do not tell lies. My sister used to make up all sorts - just to fill the space I think, and then would end up later telling them what they could see would be likely to happen anyway - e.g. moving job, emigrating, having more children etc. Best to say nothing IME. Then you don't look foolish. And it sends a stronger 'none of your business' message.