Is it common for the narcissistic parents golden child to become narcissistic themselves?

[Paddingtonbear83]

Ive definitely come to the conclusion that my BIL and family have always been a golden child. The way we are treated I’ve never been able to understand but I know that I am the scapegoat. My MIL has always hated me, she has never wanted to make any effort in a relationship with me. It was upsetting but now I know the role I play I’ve pulled away.

We don’t even get visited or bothered with whereas they are always around the other son’s house. The son rings his mum every evening and they talk all day long over WhatsApp. Every family decision he runs past his mum and she has full control over them.
It’s very clear that he is fully enmeshed with his mum. They can do nothing wrong and the mum is always telling him and his family how
amazing they are, they are the perfect family etc etc. I think they have given them a large sum of money also so they could have a big house, the mum seems to need them to look
amazing.

The brother talks like the mum. He talks about having the most money and everything must be the best. They have the best most well behaved children. They have no friends, the parents or adults because they aren’t good enough. Other people’s children haven’t been raised as well as theirs so they can’t mix. The mum posts constantly on SM about how her kids are perfect. How kids are a
representation of their parents and her kids are so kind and perfect. The kids have zero identity, they are exactly like the mum, extremely kind but blank faced. I don’t agree with this, kids have their own identity.

To me they are sounding narcissistic, does this sound like it? They don’t really want to be around us because we are the scapegoat. My kids are not perfect, they are wild adventurous little animals and that’s how I like it, they are finding their own identity.

Narcissism is partly genetic so can be passed on, over 50% chance in some studies.

A couple of things stick out here. My husband has a very weird 'golden boy' type family dynamic so I know this a bit.

The online social media mentions of 'perfect family' etc seems to be the nub - do they really talk face to face like this? If it's mostly annoying online I'd just mute them all and ignore it. One of my friends was constantly posting about how brilliant, varied and fun their family life is; obviously it was hiding the truth, and in fact it all kind of fell apart recently. The audience on social media is basically other people's approval so you need to ask why they need external validation. If their lives were so great wouldn't they be busy just enjoying it?

On another note, calling children 'blank faced' seems quite judgemental.

If I were you, I'd just see them three/four times a year so the cousins can play together, remind yourself that all is not what it's cracked up to be, and just let it wash over you. The thing with scapegoats is that they need to stay in the family fold, otherwise another scapegoat has to be chosen. So just opt out and leave them to it, but be polite when you do see them.

@TomWambsgansSwans oh no they talk like this in real life. The DIL actually said that naughty children haven’t been loved enough like she has loved her children. They need to raise their children like she has. I tried to input that children often have their own personalities, some have been through trauma or ND but they wouldn’t have it.

Sorry I didn’t meant to sound judgemental. I’m trying to get across in as few words as possible. The kids are lovely and kind, they both dress the same as each other and the mum. They are late primary age. They sit in the corner and don’t speak really when they do they speak like adults.

It's very common to copy the behaviour you see growing up as that's all you know. (A more usual example is that of physically abused children becoming abusers themselves).

I'm the scapegoat in my family dynamic, but I also have a lot of narcisstic traits which are basically learned behaviour. However, in my case, once I'd identified that I'd been brought up in a toxic family and that this behaviour wasn't ok, I consciously decided to try to change it. A true narcissist is incapable of self reflection and doesn't change.

So it's hard to know if your brother is a true narcissist or simply displaying behaviour that he's grown up with.

What is so noticeable about your post, OP is that the supposedly enmeshed relationship is about a son not a daughter. One thing I have noticed on MN, is the different attitude taken if a woman is very close to her parents. Warm, close, living in each other's pockets between a woman, her family and her parents is encouraged and celebrated.
There was a thread recently about a woman being so involved with her mother and sister. Her husband wanted to move and start again because he felt so insignificant in their relationship. Every single poster told her to stay near her mother. I can link the thread. Again and again there is the notion on MN that the ideal is to live near the female partner's family.
You hardly ever read about a Mummy's girl on here but there are so many more of them in real life. Amongst your friends are there more women living near their mothers than near their husband's family?
MN is hugely supportive of the maternal family.
There are so many calls on here for men to be more empathetic and emotionally open. For them to be more involved in family life. From an early age, men are told that being involved with their birth families is to be sneered at. They are Mummy's boys and they are enmeshed with their birth families. Yet it is bound to have an effect on many men, close family relationships are sneered at or forbidden by so many women, particularly on MN.
The relationship you describe is unusual but it would be very typical between a SIL, her mother and her children.Few people would object to it on MN. It is expected and normalised.

@Grapesichord I get close relationships, that’s lovely. I think a grown man shouldn’t be talking to his mum about sexual things he’s done to his partner, or get his mums opinions on everything. It seems way too much doesn’t it?

God ! No! Definitely not.
I am surprised on here at how much women confide in mothers, sisters and female friends yet damn any man who talks to anyone except for his wife.
In fact I read a thread yesterday on here yesterday and was surprised at how much the woman shared with her mother.
In real life have you never met a friend's MIL and not listened to a boasting session about the MIL's daughter and her family?
I know my own MIL made me feel that our children were inferior in every way to her daughter's family. It is incredibly common.

It sounds like your (and your in law’s ) views on parenting are at extreme ends of the scale.

I don’t necessarily agree with either extremes. You describe your children as “wild little animals” whereas your sil prides herself on her dc’s impeccable manners.

Accept you’re very different and don’t like each other. Distance yourself a bit. There’s no need to pore over their SM accounts.

Narcissism is a genetic personality disorder so in answer to your question- yes it runs in families.

That said, the NPD label is thrown around far too much as an armchair diagnosis. Everyman and his dog claims to have a narcissistic mother in law on social media. 🫤
Narcissism affects only a tiny percentage of the population- less than 2%

ex MIL had a tentative diagnosis of NPD which she poo pooed as 'poppy cock'
One son was golden child, one the scapegoat
Golden child exhibits classic NPD behaviour, interestingly scapegoat also exhibits similar personality traits but covert

My MIL displayed several narcissist traits, the most obvious of which was only ever thinking of herself and being unable to comprehend that her actions / decisions may impact on anyone else - or if they did - so what ?

Now the same traits are emerging in SIL, even same language. I believe that’s simply learned behaviour from her dear mother.

I don’t think my parenting is extreme at all. I’ve got an 8 year old who doesn’t listen and a two year old death wish child. What I don’t do is teach them to be afraid of people and that they are better than anyone. I don’t not let my children play with other children. We are no better than anyone, definitely not extreme. The other DIL has actively discouraged our children playing because they are too good for us and just about everyone. No I definitely don’t really like what they preach that’s a definite.

That’s interesting you say that. My partner, their other son does exhibit some behaviours also but not as strongly. He has what I would say is much more of a separate identity to his mum. His mum and brother are much more similar. He struggles with empathy and he hoards. I think his mum sees them as objects that are to make her look and feel good. We don’t make her look so good as we aren’t perfect (which I’m ok with as no one is) We don’t project perfection so we are scapegoated. I feel for my partner. The other family project perfection, they are closed to any imperfection.

Yes, my mother is a narcissist, my father the enabler and my brother are is the golden child. He is now also a covert narcissist.

I was never wanted as I was a girl I'm the black sheep and forgotten child.

I'm no contact with the entire lot now, best thing I did - shame it took 40 years to do it but it was like an instant weight lifted.

If he talks to his mum every day is that why they get visits? Do they ask? Do you ask them to come over? I’d say talk to your mum x

You have a role to play as the scapegoat; but you wake up and take action. The Golden Child has no amunition for lifes stumbling blocks. They grew up in a world where everything was ' perfect' ( apart from the scapegoat) Everything they do is Perfect, Everything they say is phenomenal. This is all possible because YOU are viewed as vehemently flawed; You cant do anything right no matter how you try. Poor you but you dont realise how this pack of cards collapsed when you withdrawn your presence. Then The Perfect family suddenly start to hone in on itself It really dies not take that long before you hear little titt3s of strife running through it. But its not your fault anymore. But a word of caution before you relax and become complacent : The Venom will be even more evident if you choose to return.

@Vonesk from what I can tell me withdrawing doesn’t seem to have made any difference. All I’ve done is remove the faulty one and they are all carrying on as usual. They so still absolutely perfect.

It's not her mum, it's her MIL.

Just hide the SIL's social media, and then you won't see any of her vomit-inducing boasting posts.

I'd also keep yourself and your dc as far away as possible from the lot of them. If your partner wants to continue to be the scapegoat and maintain a relationship with his toxic family, then that's down to him.

That’s not really hard as they don’t ever visit us. I don’t understand why they don’t want to spend time with their grandkids like most grandparents do.

In spite of what the good citizens of Mumsnet tell you, in order to diagnose narcissism you need to be a psychiatrist or psychologist with extensive training, and you need to be able to observe/work with them and the people they are ‘close’ to for a period of time. Diagnosing people with narcissism on here is mostly just about throwing a lazy label on people we don’t like or who we perceive to have mistreated us in some way. Almost everyone will have some traits associated with narcissism - vanity, selfishness, grandiose behaviour, for example, but in themselves they don’t constitute narcissism unless they’re extreme.

In your case, it doesn’t matter whether they are narcissistic/have narcissism or not because you cannot control their thoughts, feelings, or actions. The only thing you can control is your actions. Acknowledging that the MIL likes the other better family is a good first step, as is noting that you do not get along with her and she appears to hold your DH in lower regard than his brother. So what are your options? Confront her, carry on seething inside, drop the ball and just stop flogging the dead horse, or go no contact? That’s your choice. Your DH can also make a choice separately- e.g. he goes over on a Saturday with the kids for an hour or two and you go and do the shopping/have a bath/do something nice, etc. etc. but you need to do something that works for you as a family as well as individuals.

What you say really does make a lot of sense. I just can’t get rid of this feeling that I’m just sad that this isn’t the family situation that I thought we’d have. It’s not nice to be part of this dynamic. I get on with life but it’s just not what I wanted for my kids.