Anyone cut contact with a parent without making a 'scene'?

[Wimberry]

Tried to give context, sorry it's so long!

I have a poor relationship with my dad, and he's oblivious. I want to let the relationship go, but it's difficult to do so without it putting pressure on my brother, who has a much better relationship with him & wants to keep it that way. But I'm also bored of appeasing people. Has anyone navigated something similar?

Context - never had a close relationship with my dad, parents split when I was a toddler and it was very acrimonious (from my mum's side). She restricted contact and constantly criticised him. Only ever saw him for an afternoon EOW so it was more like the relationship you'd have with extended family rather than parent/child.

Whilst my mum was in the wrong, dad also never made much effort. I cut contact completely as a teen and didn't speak to him for ten years. I later gave him a chance, aware that my views had been coloured by my mum. Accepted he wasn't the devil incarnate, but I do think he's very passive and my mum's behaviour was a handy excuse.

What I find infuriating now (and have done for years) is that he is very self absorbed, rarely makes the effort, claims to be constantly busy, but when he does want to meet he laments about how long it's been, and when we meet up he waxes nostalgically about how happy he is about spending time with family, how much he's missed me etc - then makes excuses again for months. I wish it didn't bother me but it does.

He's recently messaged about meeting up, usual spiel about how long it's been etc, almost written as though it's on me. Context - I last saw him in January and have tried several times to arrange something and this is him getting back to me. He's given a suggested date (short notice) that he's free and how booked up his weekends are. I'm not free that specific weekend and I know he'll make me feel guilty about that.

If I ghost him he quizzes my brother about why and pressures him to talk to me. He's has no self awareness so would be genuinely think I'm unreasonable and that it was uncalled for. There's also no 'big reason' to cut contact so I feel petty, but I really CBA!

Any advice?

Ps should have mentioned, he remarried and had another (now adult) soon. His 'busy' is retired (he retired young so not elderly) Active social life, healthy, good pension, travels a lot. Creates work for himself - DIY, allotment etc but all optional.
I work full time in a stressful job (eg unpaid overtime/long hours). He was the same when I was skint, studying, working multiple jobs. He's very out of touch with how much harder things are for the generations below him.

Stop making an effort. If he suggests dates last minute and you can make them, fine, if not say ‘can’t make those dates , feel free to suggest some others.’ Then leave it.

stop. Leave all contact suggestions up to him. Tell your brother you are available for contact and you are letting your dad set the pace ‘as he tends to be busy’.

I've sort of already been doing that, but even though we're 'low contact' I find the sentimentality really winds me up when we are in touch. The other year I stopped making any effort and we went nearly six months without - then when he did get in touch it was lots of 'can't believe it's been so long' 'really must set a date soon' 'life is so busy' etc with no self awareness of his zero effort. Then kept asking me for dates - but didn't commit to anything for months.

I don't know why I find even the little contact we have winds me up but it does. I think it feels a bit like gaslighting, if that's not too strong a description!

Also my brother finds it hard to believe because dad visits him monthly (they have the sole grandchild)

You know who he is, what he's like. Try to get to a point where you expect his guilt-trip manipulation and can shrug it off or laugh at it, rather than letting it upset you. Then decide whether he is actually worth the bother. No need for a big scene, and no point either.

Thanks @Rhaidimiddim I know I need to get to a point where I can laugh it off, but I don't know how. I've known what he's like for a long time, DH can't stand him as sees right through him. I'm never surprised by his actions but its still disappointing every time somehow.

Nb by 'scene' I didn't mean I wanted any drama. More that i sort of feel unjustified cutting contact completely - also worried that he won't get the hint, however little effort I make!

but when he does want to meet he laments about how long it's been, and when we meet up he waxes nostalgically about how happy he is about spending time with family, how much he's missed me etc - then makes excuses again for months.

That sounds like just words, if he's always making excuses not to see you he's not that fussed, is he? All the waxing nostalgically is to make him look good to whoever's listening.

I'm not free that specific weekend and I know he'll make me feel guilty about that.

You can't help not being free. When you understand how manipulative he is (listen to your DH) you should hopefully start feeling less guilt. You're doing nothing wrong.

He's very out of touch

He doesn't want to know.

I think it feels a bit like gaslighting, if that's not too strong a description!

I don't think it's gaslighting but does sound manipulative for him to get his own way. That is why it doesn't sit well with you.

It's not your responsibility to stop your dad pressurising your brother.

It is just words. I think he's got a fantasy of being a great family man, and he's too pig headed to accept that he isn't. i know it sounds bizarre, but I do actually think he believes that he's time pressured and busy. He talks about his allotment and all his commitments (allotment, weekends away, DIY camping etc) with heavy sighs, telling me all the things he has to do and prep and buy etc, seemingly oblivious to me having no sympathy because it's entirely his choice! I think he sees it as comparable to me and DH working full time.
Even when he did work he had it very cushy - not the sort of role and conditions that tend to exist any more.

The above, and his lack of insight make it very hard to refute him when he's manipulative though. Eg when he's in touch and going on about how we must meet up and how tough it is for him, as though months of his inaction or brush offs haven't happened.

Sorry think I'm just venting now. It's crap having crap parents.

Me again.

I have two adult daughters, whose experience with their dad is the same as yours. Lots of homilies about the importance of family ( he's on his third), the ignoring them until he wants to wheel.them out for family occasions, the poor-me guilt trips, and when he does get their time, minimal interest in them - they are there to listen to him talk about himself. They are props in his life, expected to turn up when he feels the need.

They see right through him and his manipulation, but he still has the power to pull their emotions out of shape. And, unlike you, they have someone to compare notes with.

Can I suggest you look up Narcissist Personality Disorder and see if that fits? Your dad'd behaviour sounds just like that of my daughters' dad.

This sounds really difficult for you so that it would help you to create done distance from him. Really, so when he is in contact, watch yourself reading or listening to his messages and then see how you react. By having this distance you will be able to see how he is manipulating you or trying to.

Good on DH for seeing right through him.

I agree with PP that you can 'drop the rope' with respect to communications. Let him make any effort that is made. Don't make yourself available at short notice, don't change your plans.

Enjoy the rest of your life.

Thanks @Rhaidimiddim This might sound silly, but whilst I'm very accustomed to knowing deadbeat dad's, he is one in a different way and I think that throws me. Eg my mum was with a violent alcoholic cock lodger; I work with vulnerable families and see lots of men who make minimal effort, have poor parenting skills etc.
My dad is middle class, had a professional career, accomplished, capable of maintaining relationships when he chooses to. Quite patronising as well! I think that's made it harder for me to stand up for myself and set my boundaries. But what you say about 'props in his life' really rings true. I'm sorry your daughters have had to deal with similar.
Fwiw I don't think it's as extreme as a personality disorder. I think he's just self absorbed and has lived in a fairly cosseted bubble.

Thanks @FinallyHere , appreciate your message. Is it weird to say I think he's manipulative without thinking he's intentionally manipulative? I don't think he has a game plan. I truly think he's actually that oblivious! It's a shame because his wife is actually really lovely (I have no idea how she deals with him!)

I threw my birth mother out of my life 7 years ago for something absolutely horrendous and told my brother if he had an issue with that he'd be next I did just that went no contact and blocked her.

He sounds similar to my dad. Makes zero effort. When my parents were together my mum organised everything and pushed for contact. Now they divorced I rarely get a call. When we meet up he insists on photos and puts them up on social media it’s ridiculous and so fake!!!!! Box ticked and he doesn’t bother for months again…
he also makes zero effort with grandchildren, he recently missed my ds birthday and literally texted few days afterwards “so sorry I forgot pass kisses on to him “ it’s his b day soon and he will have grand expectations 🙄 when we meet I enjoy his company and he says how much he’s missed me etc etc so it’s really confusing why he doesn’t want to see mr more often. I think he might be a covert narcissist and at 60 he’s not going to change.

your dad will never change either so you need to manage that relationship the way that works for you,
perhaps when you are declining meeting say you work 9-5 5 days a week and you have other commitments 🤷‍♀️some ppl need things spelled out

@BowlOfNoodles sorry you've been in that position. I have cut people out completely who have done terrible things - I come from a family where domestic abuse, drug use etc is rife. If it was something that significant I think I would have felt justified telling him where to go. This feels harder because I haven't argued with him, or fallen out with him, he isn't aware there's anything wrong. I'm just 'triggered' by him. I don't really have any family and I find the mixed messages and his image of a respectable man harder to deal with somehow!

@DaisyChainsandSunnyDays yeah I think I might just have to make myself as busy as he is. I doubt he'll ever get the hint though! Ironically he's great with younger kids, that's part of the reason for my brother's lack of understanding as my dad is very active/involved with his child.

Just FYI. My ex was a very successful businessman, and put the children through private school. Not a deatbeat dad, in case you got that impression.

I think we are often conditioned to believe that we shouldn’t cut someone out unless they/the situation is “bad enough”, you do not have to make an effort with anyone you don’t wish to, the reasons don’t matter other than it doesn’t make you happy.
If going NC puts pressure on your DB then that’s your dad putting pressure on him, not you, you are not responsible for either of their feelings, actions or their relationship.

I have been in your position and it did end my relationship with my sibling because they are the peacekeeper type which resulted in them becoming a flying monkey for our parent, it seemed they wouldn’t upset the parent but were quite comfortable with upsetting me , I have no regrets about the ending of either relationship.

Is it weird to say I think he's manipulative without thinking he's intentionally manipulative? I don't think he has a game plan. I truly think he's actually that oblivious!

They appear so genuine because it's what they believe, it's their truth. It wasn't until I was out of my 30 year marriage that I had the headspace and clarity to see my ex husband's behaviour for what it was - highly manipulative but so subtle, it would look so innocent to anyone looking in. All he said was "Fine" when I asked what he thought of my new dress, what's wrong with that? The tone, the message just for me. I never wore the dress. That is one very small example in a book's worth that I won't bore you with.

They appear oblivious because that's what they want people to see, including you. That's why you have the confusion and hurt at the seemingly subtle behaviour he shows towards you. It feels targeted because it is.

The main game plan is to have things his way. Control. And if he does have narcissistic tendencies (not necessarily a full blown PD), to have you doubting yourself and feeling hurt, not knowing how to sort it out. To have you wanting the happy times with him that have been in the past and that other people still have, because he's such a 'great guy'.

He's good with younger children because his brain is on a similar level as a child - see what happens when the children grow up ...

I think you have two options here @Wimberry.

You can either resign yourself to it being the way it is and over time try and mind less and less about how he is - this is how I am with my mother, but it's taken a while, and for a long time I was still disappointed...but I'm not now, I just expect her to be crap.

Or, next time you're with him and he says "it's been too long", say "I've got my diary, shall we book the next time so we have something to look forward to?"

Basically call his bluff...but be aware that if him lamenting is all just words (and it may well be), then you're going to have another disappointment when he doesn't jump at the opportunity; and then you're back to where you are now.

It is SO hard having crap parents, you are right.