I'm the cheating husband

[BeCandidPanda]

I have been with my wife for 14+ years and we have children together. Our life is setup well now, except for one area, sex. It's always been an area of mismatch between us. Now I'm thinking of ending the marriage for another woman. I'm entering mumsnet knowing you are going to judge me and hate me, and perhaps this is what I deserve. Please at least try to be polite in your attacks. This isn't easy for me even though I'm the one causing all the pain.

The story of our downfall starts with me. When we had children together, I did not step up as a father and house worker for the first 2 years and sex and even emotional connection essentially froze for us. In addition, I was absent, neglectful, a work-a-holic, bad at setting boundaries with work. What she got was the broken left overs after a pretty tough work week. What I got was her totally spent from being with the kids all the time, day and night. She was cruel to me, I was absent and detached.

At that point in the marriage, we were exhausted and fighting the whole time, she was hating how little support I gave her, and I was focused purely on bringing home money for our large mortgage. I could see we were heading for a divorce after some particularly bad fights, sometimes in front of family, and doubled down to save the marriage and chose to hold my tongue after every lashing. I've since spoken to her about this time, and she swears divorce was never on her mind, and she would have continued that existence forever, even if I hadn't of improved.

I changed jobs, made time for her and the house, learned a lot of how hard it is to raise kids and run a house and the exhaustion was more fairly spread, although my career took a hit from the job move. After 2 years of me working on the family, she started to open up, talk to me like an equal again, and we occasionally had sex. Perhaps once a month.

For reasons I don't know why, we were so foolish, we had our first chat about libidos and sex drives at this point in our marriage, a house and multiple kids in. My wife revealed her ideal amount is once a month if things are going well. And for her it was real work to have to do it more than that. Mine is multiple times a week. We settled on once every 2 weeks as the compromise. By this point, I'm a more skilled house worker, the kids are a bit older, we're sleeping more, the mortgage isn't cripplingly high and life is better.

In the back of my head however, I completely panicked. I had no idea she could go a month without sex. I honestly thought missing sex was due to me being a terrible husband and father which partly I worked on to save the marriage, but partly I fuelled my sex drive into the marriage and improving myself. Now in hindsight, the flags were there before we got married that her sex drive was low compared to mine. Early on, it was once a week, I didn't raise it however. The sex quality was easily the best I had ever experienced with anyone, so once a week didn't seem as big a deal. Of course now it's become essentially a chore for her and the frequency has dropped. Of course, all the exciting elements have been stripped back to the least possible while still allowing for orgasm for both. If I raised my concerns, we fought, and sex went away. If I didn't fight, sex was infrequent and there was peace in the house. For years I chose peace.

I don't know when exactly this started, but eventually I started looking for sex hookups online, and discovered a few things. I'm not as attractive to potential sexual partners as I used to be, I'm old and a weirdo online looking for sex. Humbling and slightly humiliating but fair enough. I also discovered many of the women online who want sex, at least where I was looking, have really serious issues and as I got more desperate for sexual attention, I found myself lowering my own standards to try and have sex. I was successful in convincing a few online women to meetup, but when it came down to it, the guilt and the obvious mismatch in the kind of sex we wanted made it impossible for me to go through with it. For example, one woman desired a married man and that turned her on. I played along initially, but I didn't enjoy the idea of cheating on my wife and she started to sense it. Another woman was young and liked me to be as old as possible, yes she was attractive, but I found the whole thing creepy. Another woman was extremely aggressive and wanted me to completely abuse her, I half played along to my shame, but we both figured out that I'm actually completely harmless and am just not a sadist. I enjoy when my sexual partner enjoys sex, so it really made no sense. Even in my frustrated horny state, I had the intuition that if I practised harming women to relieve my sexual tension, I would over years become someone really bad. So I continued to seek online for women who wanted sex, but continued to not follow through when I realised there was something really wrong.

Eventually I stumble on a woman who I really click with. It's a slow burn at first, and we just chit-chat about life. Chit chat over time becomes more emotional and flirty. Flirty becomes sexting, and sexting became nudes. I was floored when I saw her, she's beautiful, and apparently she fancies me as well. A couple of embarrassing points, she's 11 years younger than me, and she even has some similar features to my wife. I didn't plan for that, and it's not the reason I'm with her, but it's worth mentioning, so you can judge me even more.

We have recently made our emotional affair physical, which I see now was possible because we were both vulnerable with each other before we had sex. We have a lot in common, sexual desires, but also outlook in life, some overlap in our anxiety and neediness. We're not quite in love yet, but it's clear we have strong feelings for each other.

She however doesn't have children, and if she wasn't with me, I think she could find someone just like me, but younger and without a family already. She however seems still keen to have me, and honestly from my side, I'm keen to have her. There's only so much I will push her away.

We're still figuring each other out on big things and it's slower going because of the affair context. There's only so much time in the day to figure each other out, and maybe in this time we will discover a boundary of the other which is unacceptable and this will fizzle out. The biggest decision I will need to make is whether I'm willing to go through the whole creating children phase again in order to have her. Almost certainly if she doesn't desire children, then I will be all in. And even if she does desire children, I suspect for her, I could be convinced. This time round, I know how to be a supportive husband and father. I know to prioritise the family. I think because we had the sex drive chat early, even if sex dried up for years because she was looking after children, I feel confident I could raise it with her as a need and we could negotiate it back eventually. She's open to discussing sex as a need. I see now, discussion about sex with my wife is a such a fragile topic that we both leave more hurt than when we started.

Other things worth mentioning, we do both have some childhood issues which will likely mean we both suffer from low confidence issues. I think we have both struggled to state our needs in relationships clearly as needs. That eventually has resulted in us being unhappy in our separate relationships and ultimately cheating. I think we have to each accept the responsibility that we created a situation with our partners partly because of our weakness to negotiate for a need that we felt was important, it's really not the fault of my wife for example that I don't have a lot of sex. I could have left her years ago when the cost to her and me was lower, but I didn't. I think I'm now old enough and mature enough where I can do that with a partner and state my needs, and I'm really of the opinion I need to service my partners needs. I've never treated my affair partner as a young woman or patronised her, but one worry I do have is that she's still figuring herself out. We're both people who by definition didn't get their needs met within a primary relationship and now wish to convert the affair into a real relationship. We're going to face so many more hurdles than is necessary to be a couple, and yet, when I talk to her, it feels right. I should be less hopeful, but I think she's worth it.

I don't really know what to expect from MN. I've read a few threads on this topic of mostly women laughing at these stupid older men chasing after younger women. I can't believe I'm the guy at the end of this joke, I'm most annoyed at myself for having gotten myself into this situation. So there you have it, yet another sad story of a middle aged man doing middle aged man things.

I know I won't get sympathy here, but it is true I feel terrible. I don't exactly have the biggest circle of friends anyway, but for a topic as dangerous as this, I literally have nobody I can confide in.

💯 I would bet money this was written by a woman.

totally agree.
it’s not real. Doesn’t even read like a man wrote it!

i think the real issue here is that you are not getting your needs met within the relationship with your wife. You claim it’s your sexual needs “I was desperate for sexual attention” but I wonder if there’s a lack of deeper connection and love missing here.

You have now met someone who is
“open to discussing sex as a need. I see now, discussion about sex with my wife is a such a fragile topic that we both leave more hurt than when we started.”

Its slightly skewed that you can talk about sex with her but you have no idea if she even wants children! It’s also rather telling that she also cannot be honest with her own partner. You both seem like avoidants.

You and this new woman both have “low confidence issues. I think we have both struggled to state our needs in relationships clearly”

How the hell will you navigate the truly treacherous waters of an acrimonious divorce, and the inevitable difficulties that any new live in relationship brings? Have you had a row yet? How do you handle conflict? Not well I guess.

You are confused and unsure and have turned to MN for help.

my advice would be - spend the £100k that the divorce would cost you on firstly sorting out yourself and then trying to salvage your relationship with your wife and children.

You say about the gf that you “were both vulnerable with each other before we had sex”.

I wonder if you cannot be vulnerable with your wife? If she could be vulnerable with you?

Your inability to be honest with her has led to the fake agreement that you are ok having sex every 2 weeks.

Spend the money on a therapist PLEASE. Find out why you can’t be honest. This character trait will not suddenly disappear in a new relationship, nor will your low confidence.

There’s obviously a lot that’s good between you and your wife. Please don’t break her heart and potentially destroy your children’s lives when I guarantee there’s another way. Yes it will be difficult to face your emotional challenges and be truly honest with your wife about your needs, but given the right support you will be able to do this. And if she is encouraged to find her own support she will be more loving and reciprocal to you.

Explain to your wife that your unhappy, don’t tell her everything just yet, tell her you have been desperate for sexual attention and have been looking for hook ups, but you’ve decide to seek therapy instead.

Whatever the outcome, this path will be cleaner & less acrimonious for all parties

If you were making as much money as you claimed to have been, why didn't you just hire a nanny to help her out?

Check out John Gottmann, the part about dynamics after having children and own parental role. Get therapy ASAP and work on getting to know your kids better, bonding with them deeper. It will satisfy a lot. You sound like such a mess, all over the place. Troubled. But a typical male also. Take hope in that. You are not abnormal but normal in your f* up. Human. Learn to repair, start in yourself. Stop seeing the other woman to be able to do so. Get to do more sport to switch off your brain a bit whilst getting positive reactions in your brain and balance. Try new things. Try new things with your kids. Ask them about their day. Their dreams. Their fears. Build love maps with the family you have. All the best

If your wife only wants sex once a month, you're doing something wrong. She's not getting off and doesn't see the point of doing it. Make it enjoyable for her and she won't leave you alone. The fact that she's ok with not doing it means you are likely just in it for you, like you are in your marriage.
Try thinking about her for a change.

I think im in the minority here, im not going to call you a piece of shit. We all deserve to be happy - if you think you could be happy elsewhere, go for it. But in the meantime, be a decent person to your wife. Talk to her, tell her whats missing, give her a chance. Its only fair.
ps - the grass isnt always greener, even though it may look it.

OP, no where do you mention the welfare of your DC.
Surely you could continue in your marriage for your DCs emotional well being and development?
You've come this far so why not you thinking about waiting until they are nearer 18 than now?

Had to reply to this post from a slightly different point of view, the “other side” if you will.
I was married to my now ex husband for 15 years, we have four children together. Met when I was 18, first baby at 20 and the rest is history. There were so many red flags that I now kick myself for ignoring that I won’t go into but what’s important is that like you admit, he was a truly s**t father and husband. Selfish, abusive, lazy. He never so much as changed a nappy, didn’t work and put his own needs before anyone else. I was pushed to breaking point and when I say I was in the darkest place imaginable I mean it, if it wasn’t for my children I truly wouldn’t be here now.
With all this in mind, do you think I wanted to have sex with someone who broke me like this? Someone who offered me no emotional, physical or financial support? No. Here’s a lesson you evidently haven’t grasped in your “woe is me, my wife doesn’t give me sex” post… women NEED some sort of connection to have sex, maybe one night stands are just that but when you are fully involved with someone, committed, there are little things building up daily, resentment, anger, it’s no wonder your poor wife didn’t want to do the most intimate act with you! Sounds like to you, sex is just sex but for most women it runs deeper than that. For me, sex was a massive part of mine and my exes relationship early on, several times a day, whenever we possibly could. I would say I have quite a high sex drive naturally but as the resentment and hurt built, we didn’t have sex for FIVE years (after this I finally found the strength to divorce him) I wonder… is this similar to how your wife feels? Consider that. Neither of us bothered to initiate sex in the end and as the years rolled on, it was easier to let it happen that confront it, I suspect this is what has happened with you and your wife.

Cut to the next scene, my ex is still an awful, selfish man who puts himself first, he sees our children every two weeks for an hour as he’s so “busy living his new best life” yes that’s a quote! Contributes nothing financially or any other way, claims to be skint but has had 4 holidays so far this year with his girlfriend (who is really lovely by the way!) and wears an £850 belt to all the festivals and concerts he attends while claiming poverty to the CMS.

Me - I have been with my new partner for over 3 years now, he is the opposite to my ex in every possible way, calm, attentive, helpful and loving. He’s a wonderful step dad who stepped up in ways I could only dream of to love, encourage and support my children. He shows up each and every day (and night) the father they never had. And guess what, we have lots and lots of sex! This is because I feel safe with him, trust him, any issues are spoken about and not held for years. Why did you let it go on for so long? I know, for an easy life, I’ve done this too! And now look at your situation.
You don’t love your wife, you don’t put your penis in another woman if you do. You know this already though don’t you?
I was shocked at the lack of mention and consideration for your children in your post. Don’t you think they can pick up on the resentment and bad mood in the house? What are you teaching your children about how to treat women? Do you have daughters? Can you imagine what you’d think of your son in law if this happened to your daughter one day?
You have put yourself first for so many years and continue to do so. You have ruined so many lives for what? Sex?! An awkward conversation that should have happened years ago?
Do the right thing now, cool things off with your girlfriend (that won’t last by the way, when it comes to the crunch she will see what a bad dad you already are and once the new shine has worn off will see your true colours and decide to have babies with someone who hasn’t already proved their worth in fatherhood) leave your wife in the right way, you know in your heart there’s no going back now, you have moved to the dark side mentally and physically. DO NOT break her heart, confidence and soul by saying you’ve met someone else or by having some sort of soul cleanse by admitting your mistakes, honestly isn’t always the best policy. Say you haven’t been happy for a long time and can see she hasn’t too. Then just leave, please don’t make her stay in the house with you, my ex hung around for months after I told him it was over and it was excruciating for myself and more importantly the children. Have somewhere already set up. EXPLAIN to your children please don’t just walk out, admit you’ve been a selfish father, promise to do better and MEAN that. You have one shot at being a dad, please remember messed up children make messed up adults.
For once please put yourself and your selfish needs LAST and do the right thing with as little damage as possible. Good luck, I fear you will need it.

This is a very outdated and untrue view, children aren’t stupid. It’s much better to have two happy parents apart than to live in an environment where the tension is palpable. To live in a high state of anxiety and tension is incredibly detrimental to a child’s developing brain and nervous system. Please consider this before tricking your children into believing they have the “perfect” family then assuming at 18 they’re going to be okay with knowing their childhood was a lie and have the ability to process it. Do you know that the brain doesn’t actually fully develop until mid to late twenties? Perhaps we should all stay in unhappy relationships until our children reach this age?!

And another post written by a woman pretending…

Whatever you think of us, we are not stupid

you could not of predicted or explained this better than any one else
this is exactly the reality
he’s a selfish disgusting man dis loyal and doesn’t appreciate what he’s got i hope his wife finds someone lovley who she can enjoy and have fun together with and her children are happier seeing there mother happy x

In summary
half of us think you’re a woman
the rest know you’re a despicable sh*t
good luck
youre going to need it !!

Praying for you all you are all a mess and need JESUS CHRIST messing up one’s life for SEX sigh your wife needs therapy you and the other female sigh

Bonjour.

You seem to have set up the logic of your reasoning around the key point that you and your wife’s sexual needs (frequency needs) are fundamentally different.

The whole reasoning seems to be based on the assumption that you think “even at the best of times she only needs sex once a month while you need it at least once a week, so you are better off finding yourself a partner who’s sexually frequency disposition is more similar to yours”

I hope you agree with my summary.

Let me ask you this:
Do you know what jokes your wife laughs at? Do you send her a quick message on the way home if she needs anything from the store?
If you see a funny story, do you share the link with her?

Thing is, sex drive is not that simple that you can put a number on each person.
the same person could want it multiple times a week because her relationship with her partner is irresistible. Or in the other extreme they could go dry for long periods and be fine with it.
Often, its about companionship. Trust. Excitement about every day life. With an emphasis on trust, that you’ll have her back.

Often its seems easier to embark on a new journey and build trust (or perhaps better to call it hope), than to repair trust and companionship in the relationships where we already messed up a few times.

My guess is: you might be this time around better prepared to be a better husband, but unfortunately what you may have gained is experience you will probably lack in time.
You will still have another family to care for and that’s a very messy thing that can put a lot of stress on your “new” relationship.
With all that added stress its likely to go downhill sooner or later (which will in turn have an effect on your sex frequency).

Also: You started the affair before being sure what you wanted to do about your marriage. You are putting this younger girl in a toxic situation: she becomes the other woman (whether she wanted it or not) which will put a lot of the guilt on her, although it was a decision made by YOU.
You are setting this new relationship off with a bad start and its likely going to erode her trust in you. And just like that

TBH I read about half way through, then gave up - this is a long post - forgive my lack of persistence and fortitude. IMO if youre unhappy, you should leave before you have a better deal lined up. I'm in a similar position, wife with limited libido (shortly after marriage funnily enough), kids etc. It's not my ideal, but my family (as a whole) pretty much makes up for the things that I miss.
In reality, your role changes throughout your life, once you have children (and have fulfilled your biological purpose) your role changes from pro-creator to provider, teacher, defender, role model, father.
I've been married for 20yrs, had kids for 10yrs (too complicated to go into here), sex is at best now an annual event (not even birthdays are guaranteed), but I've got a great relationship with my wife and kids. No its not exactly 100% what I'd want, but it's plenty good enough, and I simply couldnt live with myself if I turned that upside down for the most important people in my life.
Fortunately, for me, my brain is about 3ft away from my nob, so I can differentiate between 18yr old me from 50yr old me.
I'm guessing you are of less advanced-age, so your brain and nob are more closely located, so this is harder for you (no pun intended).
My advice: Grow up, or realise that you're never going to grow up and get a vasectomy (sorry but my empathy gland is pretty withered these days and now only secretes for my very nearest and dearest)

OP I am floored how you didn’t see any of these aspects on your own.
The recognition of what you will lose if you end your marriage really came from MN?

Also the complete lack of apparent understanding for the needs of your AP, whom you claim to care for:
If she really care about you as you say, its probably not what will throw her off that you move into a less glamorous place.
What will more likely throw her off if tgat she would be getting a fraction of you at best.
While you are navigating feelings if shame (for leaving your kids and wife) grief (for the life you left behind) uncertainty (as you obviously have lots of history and complicated emotions for your wife (that frankly you should not expect a new person to sit and wait through) while she might be more and more impatient to start building a life and eventually resentful of you for missing out on things that she could have had with someone else.

You said you were in a leadership position at your work. Didn’t that require at least a little bit of foresight to the challenges that you are navigating the company towards?

Where’s your ability to put yourself in others shoes?

Not all marriages last. I won’t call you the bad person for wanting to exit the marriage you are dealing with it in the worst way possible.

I also want to say please be careful you are not throwing away 80% for the 20%.

It’s easy to get fixated on what your marriage is lacking (sex) but ignore all the benefits you get from your current marriage and whether they will exist in a relationship with the new woman you want to leave your wife for.

My ex-husband was like the old you, I was virtually a single parent and I cannot remember any happy times in my marriage. Sex was 10o’clock on Sunday. Sometimes. (his instigation) I hated the monotony, not the act - it reminded me of the silent lip sync of someone hearing an oft repeated tale! [Might this be behand your DW’s lack of enthusiasm?]
I stuck it out for 16 years because divorce wasn’t the done thing in our family but I wish now I’d had the courage to divorce earlier.
There were affairs I could have had, but my cardinal rule is that you never play with someones happiness by hedging your bets, having an affair behind your spouse’s back and and thinking it’s OK to return to the marriage if the new relationship doesn’t work out, is as selfish as a person can be
If you truly think your marriage cannot be salvaged you should discuss your feelings with your wife, but on no account keep seeing this woman. Maybe if you have a separation you will have a taste of what life will be like without your family. Ask yourself honestly if you would still want a divorce if you hadn’t met this other person, would you be happy living on your own?
New relationships are always bright and sunny and sexual attraction is intense, but when real life returns to the humdrum (and it will). Might you be mistaking your feelings of sexual attraction as a basis for a long term relationship? You need to extricate yourself from one relationship before starting another.
When I met my DP, he had moved in with a friend next door. Neither of us wanted a relationship, I was very happy living with my ACs as they came and went, and he was twice divorced, but we talked over the fence and discovered our views and hobbies were mutual - I say this to emphsise that neither had the reason to appear as anything but ourselves to impress the other. We never expected to be living together and therefore when it happened knew all about the warts and all! 25 years later we’re together literally 24/7 and the relationship is working as well as it did in the beginning even though we have been through really difficult external circumstances individually and mutually.

I can understand your dilemma if you think a divorce will solve your problems - it won’t necessarily. Even if you are the person who wants to leave the marriage, as I did, you may still feel regret that your marriage did not work out, the upheaval to your children which (will be considerable) and financial consequences of funding two homes. Neither you nor your DW will enjoy the lifestyle you enjoy now.

Take time for breathing space to work this through to be sure you are actually doing the right thing. You can only do this if the person you are seeng is out of the picture. If you eventually divorce, when the dust settles you will be free to embark on another relatiinship, I hope you, wife and DCs eventually find happiness.

Wow. None of us needed to know about your sexual desires or the full timeline of your infidelity. It's almost as if you are bragging.

You want to know why she never wanted to have sex with you? It's because you left her to do all the childcare and house upkeep by herself - that is extremely mentally and physically draining. And then to have an adult child of a husband (who from your description sounds more like a roommate than a life partner) pester her for sex on top of that.. It's not that she has a low sex drive, it's that you give her no reason to want to have sex with you. You put no effort into your relationship or your family and yet you feel entitled to her body. Instead of continuing to talk to your wife about this, instead of working things out, you cheated. No amount of remorse changes such vile actions.

It's hilarious you thinking you're avoiding someone with issues just because you and your mistress "clicked" - anyone who knowingly pursues a married person with kids has serious issues. I highly doubt the relationship with your mistress will work out long term but I hope she was worth losing your family over. Do you even want someone you can have an emotional connection with, or do you just want someone in your house you can bang whenever you want?

Tell your wife the truth, she deserves as much. Seek counseling. Ugh

This - you sound like a real waste of space.

I’ve realised one thought I haven’t shared which is relevant and important here.

knowing woman and having had my ex cheat on me I will say

in all probability your wife already knows what you’re doing !

so ask yourself this - why isn’t she saying anything

i would suspect

1/ she no longer cares and doesn’t love you anyway

2/ you’re a breadwinner and convenient for now

3/ she’s stuck but planning her escape with the children which she will then refuse to let you have contact with

I strongly suspect any or all of these factors will be at play. Women usually know when their partners are lying cheating and when childen are involved often opt for tactical game play. Especially when there is no love lost between the couple.

she may be secretly milking off money, enlisting support of family and friends, building her team….

i think you’re in trouble here. You’ve made mistakes you can’t undo and opened a book you can’t close.

one things for certain- you’ve destroyed your marriage and likely your children’s opinions of you forever. You will never be the father they deserve and you have to come to terms with that and make rhem your top priority now !!

OP if you are still having sex with your wife, once a month or twice if you’re lucky, presumably the other woman knows and you’re not lying to her? And do you really know whether she is still having sex with the other person in her “primary relationship” or indeed, other people shes hooking up with online?

I don’t agree with posters suggesting you work on repairing your marriage. I think you’re revolting, ridiculous, pathetic and selfish, and deluded to imagine there’s a happy-ever-after with the younger woman who currently seems keen to have children with a deceptive cheat and liar. Ten years down the line you’ll be getting your kicks with another online date and you’ll still be bleating on about your dissatisfaction, while another kid or two knows precisely what a prick their father is.

The sooner you are divorced the sooner your wife has some chance to rebuild a happy life, and she’s never going to be happy while you’re living together. You didn’t have the decency to move out before getting your leg over elsewhere. To be so gutless and vile to decide you’ll invest in therapy while continuing to screw both women is laughable. You’re amazed that your affair partner seems to think you’re some sort of a catch? Yeah, ok. You have SO much to bring to a second marriage - in your dreams.