Sex, Swinging and lots of conflict (long)

[Latelybaby]

Hi Mumsnet,

I want to preface this by saying that this is not my husband’s fault at all. I am to blame and you will realize why.

We have always had an amazing sex life. I am a SA survivor, so I never had much confidence or even enjoyed sex before. In fact, I would avoid it. My husband and I are like twin flames and have a connection in every aspect of life.

There was a time we went through a rough patch and I found out that he had been making comments to women on Twitter. Not conversations - just camgirls but the comments that he was making hurt because he wasn’t saying that stuff to me anymore. Anyway, we worked through it and I decided to forgive him. He didn’t see it as cheating, but he saw how hurt I was and I genuinely believed it was a mistake that he thought was harmless.

We have always talked about bringing other people in. We only talked about it when we were ‘in the mood’ and when we weren’t, we both kinda shyed away from the subject. He had always said that if it was to happen in rl, the circumstances would have to be perfect.

Lately he has wanted to do it in person. When I am in the mood, it is like I have an alter ego. I will be really dirty and talk dirty. This is where I think the confusion came from. We talked about it seriously. I think he believed that it was a fantasy of mine that I kept hidden (the fact he thought I wanted to), but in reality, I go along because it turns him on.

He talked more and more about doing it and I started to try and tell him how I really felt. I think men and women see sex different. To me, my body is his because he has earned my trust and I only want him touching me. I don’t think I was clear enough though because one night, I ended up doing it with him and another man. I felt disgusting, ashamed and literally wanted to rip my skin off. I was crying afterwards. It felt like I cheated and he couldn’t understand that because he had given me permission, why I felt like that. I didn’t tell him the extent, but I found out that the other guy was complaining because I locked myself in the bathroom and couldn’t bring myself to come out. I felt just as powerless and out of control of my own body as I had many times before. What’s worse is that he ‘accidentally’ did not sleep in the same bed as me ❤️‍🩹(that was something I was very particular on).
After a while, he just couldn’t understand why I was becoming withdrawn. I was terrified that he would go to Twitter again so I ageed again! Same episode having panic attacks in the bathoom. Made him wait 2 hours for me while I put make up on. Somehow me putting makeup on makes me disassociate with myself so I thought it would be easy. I told my husband no ‘sex’ and just other stuff. This other guy kept going on about it and asking repeatedly. Then he kinda forced my head down and I was terrified. I am sorry this is long. I just needed to get it out. I don’t want him looking else where for someone into what he is.

Oh OP, I'm so sorry. You've been coerced into doing things you're not OK with.

I know this isn't what you want to hear but it is your husband's fault. If he really loved and respected you he wouldn't push you into doing things you don't really want to do.

No loving husband would watch his wife go through panic attacks in the bathroom over something he had asked her to do and not cancel it. Your husband is absolutely the problem here. It is not okay for a husband to make his wife feel pressured into doing sexual acts in order to please him, when the other man kept going on about sex after you’d said no your husband should have shut that down and if he kept going on about it made him leave. Your husband should want to nurture and protect you, not put you in a vulnerable situation.

Leave you husband, it is almost like he is prostituting you out to other men for his own sexual pleasure which is so far from a loving act. It is his fault, he is abusive and it is not okay. You should never, ever have to do something sexual that you don’t want to to please somebody else. You should never feel like you have to agree to sexual acts you don’t want to so that your husband doesn’t cheat. The fact you feel like this just shows how unhealthy the relationship is. No marriage is worth feeling like this, leave him and let him find someone else, you are worth far far more than a sexual abuser like him.

OP this is all a bit confusing so you must also be confused. You say that you talked about having a threesome but only as a fantasy to turn your husband on. How did it move to reality? You obviously told your husband that you weren't being serious, but he went ahead, found another man, organised an evening and it went ahead. Did he simply not listen to you?

Dissociation is common after SA, the panic attacks and fear sound like flashbacks. The whole thing sounds horrendous. I'm sorry you're going through this.

Has he been talking you into it? Convincing you that this is what you want? Is that why you ended up in the situation again? Or did you just feel powerless to stop it all?

The man forcing your head down is sexual assault. You being coerced into threesomes is rape. Coerced sex is rape. Does your husband have more plans? This all sounds dangerous and has already got out of control. He's bringing strange men into your bedroom, anything could happen.

Is there a history here? Does your husband coerce or get you to do other things you don't want? Is he planning to do this again? For your own safety I would just get away from him.

Do you genuinely believe you're at fault? If so he's done a number on you, compounded no doubt by the abuser in childhood.

A man who ignores your boundaries and forces your head down IS an abuser, a criminal. One to run far away from.

You can ring rape crisis for non judgemental support in the meantime.

Sweetheart I wish I could give you a huge hug.

May I ask If you have someone to support you IRL?
I ‘ll try to say this in the most sensitive way I can. First I will agree with the PP that it is his fault. Second I ‘m afraid you are being abused. I doubt a man who is a twin flame and loves would ever demand sth like this from you. Fantasies are just fantasies and it doesn’t mean we should act on them. Making love with someone you love and desire is the most beautiful thing in the world and honestly you don’t need anyone else. Just the two of you.

I think you need some support to walk away from this marriage and honestly, If he goes on Twitter to find someone else he is making you a favor. Even If you expressed your fantasies to him, you being locked in a toilet for 2hrs crying should have given him the hint.

So sorry you are going through this. I hope you have friends/family to support you.

As far as I’m aware (I’ve never had one), when threesomes happen, the boundaries are agreed and communicated to all parties beforehand. And anyone can stop at any time—this is known. ‘After’ arrangements are also agreed beforehand…will the 3rd person leave immediately after DTD? Will they spend the night?

So either the 3rd person didn’t know the agreed boundaries beforehand, or chose to ignore them and push past them. Red flag. And DH watched you get pushed past your boundaries. Red flag. What were you and your DH’s ‘after’ agreements?

This all sounds dodgy AF to me. Coercive consent isn’t actually consent. Time to have some serious discussions with DH.

It's totally your husband's fault.

Normal men would firstly understand the difference between fantasy and reality.

And most importantly they would understand that if an activity they were doing for fun was giving their wife panic attacks, it wasn't fun anymore and should be stopped immediately.

www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/twin-flame-meaning

I read a brilliant book on the subject which was recommended by a therapist. I'll need to have a look to find the title, but meanwhile this article might be helpful.

I'm so sorry this has happened to you.

Jesus Christ lovely this is awful and it absolutely IS your husband's fault. Nobody needs to swing or have threesomes. He's bullied and coerced you into this knowing perfectly well you don't want to. You're doing it due to fear of losing him. This is very damaging to you.

I am a swinger - my DH and I do swing sometimes but only when we are both 100%. I understand the idea of the intense sexual connection and the 'dirty' side of you coming out when you feel safe. But he's not your twin flame because he's abusing the fact that you feel safe enough with him to share fantasies into coercing you to do things you don't want to do.

It’s not your fault, you’ve been abused before and he knows you can be abused again and that’s what he’s doing. No loving dh thinks his wife crying is ok.

Fucking hell op this is bad. I have had so many instances of hearing about women who have been persuaded into trying threesomes etc and also had that pressure myself, all these swinging sites and porn is just making it seem the usual thing to do and it's crossing lines from fantasy to reality.

But this situation is downright abusive, your husband is literally watching you be assaulted by another man and just does nothing, what the fuck. Most guys even if they are into watching their partner with someone else would want to rip another blokes head off for doing that.

You need to leave, there's no coming back from this.

Your husband does not love you op. He doesn't respect you either. No loving human being would do that to you.

This is honestly one of the most upsetting threads I’ve ever read on Mumsnet.

OP, none of this is your fault. You are being coerced and your husband is abusive. Please seek help.

I want to preface this by saying that this is not my husband’s fault at all. I am to blame

No

You are not to blame

Your husband is abusing and coercing you

He is fully to blame

He is an abuser and you are in an abusive marriage

Definitely don't do it again and make it clear it is something you don't enjoy. I say this as a swinger myself, me and my DH started slowly to see if we were both okay with it. We had the rule that we stop at any time and once, one says no it stops.

It was not OK for the other guy to pester for sex or to force your head and your DH should have reinforced it.

If he's not willing to drop the subject or carries on making comments to other women, that is not your fault. You should never be made to feel worried that he's going to do that because you won't fulfill his fantasies.

You're not twin flames OP, whatever that means because he has coerced you into doing things you didn't want and you're going along with it because you're terrified that otherwise he;ll be looking at and commenting on other women on Twitter. This isn't even a 'good enough' relationship let alone some idealised, perfect twin flames thing.

A good relationship doesn't involve coercion, it doesn't involve feeling terrified, It doesn't involve panic attacks in the bathroom. None of this is even vaguely normal. Feeling desperate to do anything to hold onto someone who is treating you badly is completely dysfunctional and unhealthy. Thinking you are to blame for all this is also completely wrong - it wasn't you who started all this by commenting on camgirls was it? Would you ever dream of doing anything like that?

You're vulnerable OP and it's not twin flames but emotional dependence you're feeling - and that's not healthy. But you're a survivor and you can escape and survive this too. Do you have any supportive family or friends around you?

He's done a total, selfish number on you OP, which is even more unforgiveable as he knows your past history of SA. You won't want to hear this, but he's putting his sexual predilictions above your MH and indeed, safety. Noone does that to someone they love.

Please get all the support you can from people in RL. You have done nothing to be ashamed of,but he has.

OP, you are not to blame for this AT ALL. You locked yourself in the bathroom for two hours because you were upset and scared and pressured, and your arsehole husband, rather than telling the man to leave and looking after you, just waited and told you how the other guy was complaining. Not only that, but after seeing how upset you were about it the first time, he pushed you to do it again. Is that really the actions of a good man? Could you ever imagine treating someone like that yourself?

OP, this is abuse and coercion. Why can't you see this?

You need to leave. Your husband does not love you or have your best interests at heart.

No nice man does this.
Someone who loves you would not have continued with this - to be honest, anyone with any sensitivity at all would not have suggested it.
He’s creep. He prioritised his sexual gratification and that of another man over you and your safety and mental health.
He is also an abuser. I’m sorry.

This isn't the book I had in mind, but it looks good: www.goodreads.com/book/show/51625633-attachment-theory
Also, when you're ready you might want to look up Brene Brown- she is excellent on shame.

I hope you are safe, and can find some space to process and think.

I mean you doing all this to keep him from cheating again isn’t great. They aren’t just camgirls it’s him seeking a connection with another woman when he’s got a wife at home.

Your husband sounds awful.

This is terrible, OP.
You must recognise that he's coercing you into this situation. You clearly aren't interested and are terrified, but yet he orchestrates it again. With a man that then sexually assaulted you with your husband condoning it!?
Please don't allow this to happen again, and seek counselling. I'd leave him if I were you. At the very least his sexual preferences don't align with yours, at worst he's an abuser with zero moral compass.

Your husband has coerced you. "Twin Flame" is an entirely manipulative agenda. Watch the Netflix documentary. You are being abused. You were forced into sex acts which is sexual assault. You need to leave this man, he will ramp up the abuse more and more. He has you blaming yourself, is is making YOU responsible for his fetish.