Therapy and sister

[Flyhigher]

My sister wants me to go to therapy session with her when she tells me all her issues with me.

And then she feels heard and can forgive me.

She has told me all her issues. I have said sorry.

But it feels like getting beaten up by her.

She drills down and leaves me no space.

I say sorry I feel like I'm begging.

I have not spent as much time as her looking after my mum.

My mum is very traumatic to be with.

Sister says put your big girl pants on.

I have and just call the Samaritans repeatedly when I'm with my mum.

Or go out to pubs and bars and find people to talk to. And cry mostly .

My sister also finds my mum hard. By It lives closer so doesn't spend as much time with her.

I just think this therapy session is another way for her to make me feel even worse about myself than I do now.

It can't help.

I feel bullied into doing it and cannot see it's helpful.

She will give a huge list I will say sorry.

I will give a list of her things against me , she will refuse or double down in accepting them.

If you can't talk it out between you how can a therapist help? Her therapist will take her side.

Has anyone ever done this ? Did it help?

I know this is a bit rambly. Am very stressed.

There's no good reason for you to go op, tell her you've said sorry and she either accepts that and moves on or you're done

I've never done it but I asked my father to do it (he didn't). My idea was the therapist would be a neutral observer and could create a safe space for me to hear my father as well as be able to tell him how I felt. I wasn't suggesting we see "my" therapist though.

Very hard to know what her intentions are as an outsider but a decent therapist shouldn't be taking sides. Can you contact the therapist to ask them how they would run the session? Is it only 1 your sister is suggesting? Rather than joint therapy to repair/explore your relationship? If just one then I would be cautious it is just an opportunity for her to dump on you. Which doesn't sound therapeutic.

She has told me her issues.
I have said sorry and then gone into detail about how bad my mum makes me feel.

She did listen. Then said mum won't change. You have to.

I went to see my mum. It was hell.

I feel like my fragile mental health gets ripped apart.

My dad died and she said I haven't got a credit card. She didn't even cry at all about him.

There is no way her therapist can be neutral.

She can't. She's had sessions with her a lot to them. She knows more about her. And will be facilitating her needs.

If I raise anything my sister has done it will only make her feel bad about herself.

She has been aggressive, mind you dealing with my mum and her husband and her stresses she's lost her job. And probably can let work in a well paid job again.

I have made mistakes. Out of terror and fear.

My mum shouts so loudly says lots of crazy things. She's not educated. And just makes statements and argues.

Anyway. I have said sorry. I felt so bad I got in bed for 6 months.

I cannot stand the bullying. And this session is just another form of it.

I agree I'm awful. I'm shit. I'm sorry.

She's also very controlling and difficult. What's is the point in me making her feel worse.

This is hell.

She suggested I get my own therapist too.

This just sounds mental to me.

Two outsiders witnessing our family shit and my weaknesses.

I will just feel utterly humiliated and degraded.

I do not see this going well.

I don't. She wants to be heard.

This is what will happen.

I've heard you. I'm shit. I agree.

But then you are a controlling domineering person that is almost impossible to do any team work with.

You make me so stressed I shake all over. And stress sweat. Every comment is nasty and competitive.

Yes you've loads for my mum. So I put up with it for about three years now.

My mum has caused all this. It's ripping me apart.

It will just get ugly.

What can anyone get out of it.

I have agreed I'm shit. And awful.

What more does she want?

I do think she genuinely thinks she will feel heard and then will be able to move on.

She has told me all my failings and I have agreed and said sorry.

OP it does sound like you also need therapy- could you ask your GP for a referral? A therapist would be more helpful than the samaritans, who aren't allowed to give input. You should absolutely refuse to attend your sister's therapy session if you don't want to go.

Do not do therapy with your abusive sister. I would have nothing further to do with your sister or mother (who has caused this dynamic in the first place). She see to be a carbon copy of your mother.

Completely agree.

No one should rise above or be the bigger person when they’re abused.

I understand how hard it is to walk away or keep distance, it’s necessary to have the boundaries though.

Your sister's therapist should be helping your sister to workout how best to deal with her distress. One option might be to explore family / relationship therapy, but this would require family members to want this too. Failing that, the therapist and your sister should find ways to resolve the issues without co-opting others.

If both you and your sister did want relationship counselling then I suggest a relationship counsellor should work with you both whereby they can attend your the dynamics and what happens between both of you. I don't think your sister's therapist (unless family therapy or relationship counselling trained) is the right way forward.

If you feel you would like counselling or therapy, this is a decision for you to make and take forward.

I have had therapy. I didn't find it very helpful.

I did find it helpful when they said it's not all my fault.

It's never just 1 persons fault.

My sister isn't abusive, I don't think, she is very very stressed.

My mum is very very difficult.

The only way to cope with my mum is to control and dominate her.

Nothing else works.

I have said to my sister yes I'm wrong.
And I've failed. And my mum is awful.

She then said I can't hear that.

Which is fine. I get it. No one can hear negative things all day about their mum.

When you do everything my mum wants she's then a bit nicer.

In the winter she's awful.

I just don't see relationship counselling working

How does it work?

What happens is my sister says I'm awful.
I agree. I say sorry.
Then she's hard on me again. And I can't cope.

She's hard on me for ages. I take it, get worse.

Then she gets really mad.

I retreat. Get submissive.

She can't cope with my mum either.

She's doing a better job than I am though.

Awhile ago she said she was in a horrible place with my mum. Then found a way to manage her.

She says she lies all the time. (It is the only way).

And praises her. And does her bidding. All the time.

When she can't cope I guess she gets angry with me. It's a nightmare. It's like a living nightmare.

Has anyone found relationship counselling to work?

I realise that. It's just my mum is horrible that when I'm with her I need to talk to counsellor. Or someone every hour.

And you can't. My husband used to do that function for me.

I need specialist counselling. And I need it more than once a week. Especially when I see my mum.

On the one hand she's an 82 year old needing help. On the other she is nasty aggressive not very bright but very opinionated person.

It's hard to explain.

She very very difficult. She is old. She is my mum.

Well she's the woman to gave birth to me. And looked after me well until I was 11.

You say you've 'failed' a lot and say sorry. But what have you failed at? How old is your Mum? Is she in poor health or quite capable of looking after herself? Why do you and your sister need to keep seeing her at all if she's that bad?

If its physical assistance she needs, social services and home care are the answer. If she can't manage in her own home, then it's a care home. I remember my mother years ago telling me that if she ever needed looking after, just stick me in a home. She's 80 but fit, as is my 82 year old Dad.
Given that the pair of you have needed therapy, sounds like some sort of trauma bond keeping you doing things for her. So she gave birth to you, and she's now an old woman, so what? She can still be a nasty person who can be left to sort her own shit out. The pair of you should just leave her to it rather than arguing over who does what for her.

She can't do internet things.
Increasingly everything is online.
She's starting to lose her marbles a bit.
She doesn't understand the modern world at all.
It is harder now. She's not Uk born.
She's not educated.
So she's no clue about modern life.
So.. without us she'd fail.
She can't use her phone properly without help.
She rents out flats. Her tax return. She just can't do all that stuff alone anymore.

What are the 'failings' you've said sorry for?
Is this all related to caring for your mother?

Yes it is, I didn't see her much in Covid and after.
2020 to 2023 I saw her about 1 a year.
2022 I saw her for one horrific week.
2023 for 2 days.
I ring a lot. My sister has done much more for her.
I live 200 miles away. Sister lives 24 miles away. But it takes much longer now for her to get there via public transport.

Your mother created this dysfunctional dynamic and your sister is a carbon copy of her. Why do you agree to her calling you awful?. It does not stop her abuses of you.

You need to drop the rope your sister holds out to you here. You appear to have physical distance but you need also far more mental distance between yourself and they.

Your mother rents out flats so is not completely incapable of doing things for herself; she just wants a willing slave to do all her other stuff for her. Without you or your sister around she would have to learn to manage her life; she cannot expect you both to carry her. Whatever you do for her its not and would never be enough because she is an unpleasant emotional void of a person. If she needs care you two do not actually have any obligation to do this for her either but she has installed that sense of obligation along with fear and guilt in you. Indeed the two of you should leave her to it rather than just argue over who does what for her. That's what she wants too.

OP, you don't sound awful to me at all. You sound like you have an abusive mother (anybody who shouts and makes you feel in constant need of mental support is abusive, regardless of their intentions). . It is completely acceptable- in fact, very wise and strong to choose to be no or low contact with an abusive parent. If you worked with a therapist, I suspect the therapist would be hoping to help you get comfortable with having no contact with your mother, helping you realise you have every right to make that choice, and that does not make you a bad person at all. You never need to apologize for not spending time with an abusive person.

Your sister has the same choice to make. She can be no contact too. She has decided not to be, but that is on her. She has no right to be angry with you for being low contact, yes, I get that you both feel duty to your parent. I get that she feels the less you do, the more she has to do.
But no- for your and your sisters sake, stand by your position of having no/low contact, and do not accept criticism for doing so.

As others have said, your sister also sounds abusive, and you have every right not to see her or go to her therapy sessions if you don't want to.

I was invited to a therapy session by someone I was in an abusive relationship with. I did go, and actually I didn't regret it. I think it was probably useful for the therapist to see the problematic behaviours in action. It can be hard for a therapist to know the truth of how someone is acting when they are just listening every week to one side. But I knew I was strong enough to do it. (And I ended the relationship almost immediately afterwards).

If you know if would damage you, then don't do it, if you DO, then I would not apologize to your sister. I would listen, then tell her you have made the decision about your mother that you need to for your own mental health. And you encourage her to do the same.

The therapy idea with your sister doesn't sound as though it will be beneficial for you.

Spending intense periods of time with your mother isn't beneficial for you.

Listening to your sister blame you isn't beneficial for you.

Prioritise yourself. Apart from your mother and sister what else do you have going on in your life?
Do you have time amd space to give to supporting your mum? If not, then don't. Allow social services to step in if she needs care. If she has rental properties then she has an income and could pay someone to manage them for her, or to sell them.
If your sister wants to be involved with her, that is your sister's decision. You don't need to do the same thing or provide the same level of support.

Be clear with your sister - you aren't in a position to support your mother. You won't be doing any more. And if your sister wants to step away from providing care to your mother too then you support her in that.

The bittom line is that you are very unwell. The crying, shaking, depression, and retreat to bed for months are signs of that.

With the best will in the world there is not mych you can do from 200 miles away while unwell. It would be nice if you could help out with your mother, perhaps, but you can’t because you are not mentally and physically up to it.

Practically speaking you must prioritize your health—you must put yourself first.

You should try to go back to individual therapy with someone who can give you a diagnosis and a workable plan.

You seem to be unclear on what is going on and how/why individual therapy is necessary.

For whatever reason, and without laying blame, you seem to have the symptoms associated with someone who has suffered extensive pain in family relationships: high anxiety, depression, shaking, collapse, inability to advocate for self, avoidance, submission, confusion, A somewhat histrionic style. All of these are best understood as generated by or stimulated by your family when they mske demands on you, complain to you, attack you.

Books to read and consider:

Pete Walker’s Complex PTSD: From surviving to Thriving.

Keisin Neff’s Mindful Self Compassion

Will I Ever Be Good Enough? For women with difficult mothers.

If you like youtubes you can look up Dr Rahmani in n Narcissistic Abuse.

The bottom line is that you can’t help your mother or your sister without helping yourself first.

Look for a therapist who can offer you a diagnosis of your symptoms based on a bio/psychological/social history. This will help you understand yourself snd your violent reaction to your family’s demands better. Only when you understand and can protect yourself will you have the ability to decide whether to offer help to sister snd mother.

Op you should have therapy yourself first so you feel more able to cope with your situation.

Tell her you will do that for a year first. Then reevaluate X