He's lying to me...

[IJustCannotThinkOfAName]

That's it. I'm not really posting advice. I know what my options are. I think I'm posting more to process, decide and understand. But any feedback would be welcomed.

I've been with my partner for 3 years.

There have been a couple of times when I've suspected he wasn't being completely honest with me. I've not said anything at the time because they haven't really been about important things or it was just that a couple of things didnt quite add up/sit right but there was no proof it was a lie and there would have been no point in saying anything because I'd have looked ridiculous.

I have felt more recently though that the weight of these inconsequential 'white' lies has been building. My experience is that, if someone is willing to lie about stuff that doesn't matter, they are definitely going to lie about stuff that does. I've found myself feeling mistrutful of things he has said. Is that true or just what he's telling me?

Last night was the first time that it was obvious and the 'evidence' was right in front of me. It was a stupid thing to lie about. Small and inconsequential (seemingly) but then, why lie?

I did challenge him on it for the first ttime and he just denied it. If he was telling the truth, he's an idiot and he'd have to think I was also one if he thought I was going to believe it.

We've barely spoken since. My mind is racing with other the other little lies (that I still can't bring up because the moment has passed and I still have no proof) and why he would have felt the need to lie last night. I have no idea what he is thinking but he did deep clean the kitchen last night. It looks phenomenal!

No. Definitely not pinned.

Her name is always on the list of recent conversations but only at the top when she's just messaged him.

Have any of his exes been controlling/abusive? If you’ve been with someone who checks your phone/always demands to know who you’ve been with etc, it can be hard to get out of the habit of being defensive/telling white lies to protect yourself. It’s a complete headf**k having a partner who doesn’t trust you to the extent you stop trusting yourself and it can change your behaviour for years afterwards.

You need to give yourself a line that once it's crossed it is over.

Whether that's you calling out his bs three times, or whether it's calling him out once but it takes an hour of you doing that. Don't be wishy-washy about it otherwise you will find yourself 10 years into the future wondering where your self esteem has gone and why you are so anxious, and hitting the antidepressants hard because they don't seem to work. Your reality would have tilted enough by then so things that others deem weird and unacceptable would feel normal to you. Just read 50% of the Relationship threads and you'll see someone who started off like you.

I wouldn't hang around for calling him out 'another time' or 'every time' it happens.

His honesty and integrity is obviously on the floor. And it's probably not going to get better.

It's all just stupid stuff that would make me look paranoid/controlling/insane if I mentioned it.

Things like... (again, sorry for the length and detail but, without it, the point would be missed).

We moved in together just before Christmas. Last summer, he still had his own place around a 30 mins drive away. This was around the time I first started to notice inconsistencies but nothing concrete or major and I wasn't sure if it was just me... 🙄

He was staying at mine for the week and needed to pick something up from his flat. This was a fairly frequent occurrence. And he was usually gone for just over an hour. 30 mins drive there and back plus a few mins in the flat.

He went over one evening last summer and was gone for 2 and a half hours. It was so very out of character that I had started to worry that he might have been involved in an accident.

He came back and we had a few mins chat about what he'd picked up and did I want a cup of tea etc.

He brought the tea out into the garden and I said, "You were gone a while! I was starting to worry you'd been in an accident."

He told me that he'd bumped into an old school friend who'd been living overseas and they'd chatted for about half an hour on the street outside his flat. I said, "Oh, you should have gone to X pub for a proper catch up." X pub is run by another of his old school friends just around the corner so they would have all known each other.

He said that he hadn't because the conversation had been a bit awkward, old friend hadn't had much to say, they had nothing to talk about and he just wanted to get away as quickly as he could.

He then immediately changed the conversation to give me a blow by blow account of his journey back - complete with car makes and colours and exactly how badly other people had driven on the road. There's a notoriously bad stretch of road between the two places where people drive like idiots (either <30mph in a 50 zone or recklessly fast and all over the place). It was always worth a passing acknowledgement but rarely worthy of a detailed account.

So, hang on, you and this old friend had nothing to talk about? It was awkward and you just wanted to get away? But you spent half an hour talking to him at the side of the road? Doesn't add up. Half an hour is a long time to make awkward small talk for! Either one of them could have made an, "Anyway, nice to see you but I've got somewhere to be!" comment and ended it after 5 awkward minutes... if it had actually happened...

But by the time he'd spent 10 mins detailing the other drivers on the way home, I didn't feel I could go back to question this. Which was obviously the intention.

If he'd said he'd just sat in silence in the flat for an hour, that would have been fine and understandable. If he'd actually popped into X pub to see the landlord, that would have been fine too (and he knows that because hes done it). So why the obfuscation? Why the deflection? Why the lie?

It all sounds very tiring and he sounds childlike. Thing is, there's no trust from the off and that is crap.

Unpopular opinion…. I would be careful about ending an otherwise good relationship because of a few inconsequential white lies.

the reality is everybody lies about little stuff sometimes. When you live with someone or spend a lot of time with them you of course find them out.
we are shown in movies and books that relationships are 100% honest, true love conquers all and marriages last forever. It’s hogwash.

if you trust him on the big stuff then try not to let a few little pointless lies get in the way (I’m talking like no I didn’t get a sausage roll for lunch, or yep I called the plumber but they didn’t answer) love is hard to find and when you find it it’s hard to hold because we often have too high expectations of relationships.

hope you figure out the happiest path for you

I have no reason to suspect this.

He has never said so. I've met his ex wife and his most recent ex who was a kind, gentle and lovely woman.

But it did start leading me to think this...

His ex wife believed he adored her so deeply that she was shocked when he ended the marriage became of her infidelity. His most recent ex also believed he adored her and trusted him implicitly. She was very ill for a while and he cared for her and treated her with the utmost respect.

So either, he also lied to them but they trusted him so implicitly that they never noticed or questioned and just accepted his word on everything. Or he didn't lie to them.

Thank you and I know you're right.

Unfortunately, it's not as cit and dry when you're in the relationship becaise in every other way, he is literally perfect for me. If you removed this one thing (which I know I can't), it would benthe best relationship I've ever had.

But a relationship based on lies and an insecure foundation is nothing.

That's why I'm processing it all really.

Idk OP but I suspect control.

My stbx was/is very similar with all the low level lies that aren't really important. The constant omitting of truth. But eventually the lies get replaced by "I forgot " or "yes ill do it tomorrow " (but tomorrow never comes). It sends you insane. It makes you anxious. It makes you question reality.

At the moment mine keeps telling asking if i need anything from the supermarket (we have shared kids), then he returns to tell me the supermarket has run out of most of the things I ask for. I end up going to the same supermarket to look for alternatives and guess what. Shelves are full. According to him they must have had a delivery within the last 30 minutes (and the staff to put it out). Why ask me if I want anything if he doesn't want to get? Why not get the items instead of saying there is none? It's about creating confusion and upset, then he gets to claim victimhood by DARVO. A classic script for an abusive, controlling person. They do it because they can.

That is why I said make sure you have a line that cannot be crossed. Not all abuse is obvious but the final result is the same. You end up a shell of who you used to be.

My exh got too comfortable lying. About small stupid stuff..
Then told a whopper that by luck I was walking past him (behind) and saw his open laptop with banking app open...
What I saw had me filing for divorce the next day...
Been lying about his wages for a year. While I was borrowing odd family to pay bills he was living it up.

It's not really the white lies that are the issue though, it's just when someone keeps lying even when challenged on something, it just leads you thinking if they lie about all these things why would you believe anything they say? With my ex I would literally be able to prove in black and white sometimes that he'd lied and he would still double down on it and make me feel like I was going mad. In the end I just couldn't believe a single word and was always second guessing everything.

Of course everyone tells the odd white lie but when it's a regular pattern and they don't own up to it when asked that's a deal breaker for me.
Also there is always a reason for someone to lie and it's usually to cover their arse.

This is the crux of it though.

How can you trust someone on the big stuff if you know they lie about the small stuff?

There's a reason he lied about when his ex wife messaged him. If it's just that he thinks she/they message a lot and I wouldn't like that (I've given no reason for him to think that), it would be inconsequential. If he's actively hiding something he knows I'd end the relationship over, it's not.

If he was so late back because he'd fallen asleep in the flat, watched a bit of telly, had a wank, whatever, that would be inconsequential. If the old friend had actually been an old girlfriend (that's only just occurred to me!) and he'd invited her up to the flat for an hour for old times sake or he'd gone to see a prostitute, that would end the relationship.

So none of these lies are definitely inconsequential. They could be but there is no way of knowing.

That's why they're so damaging.

But you’re creating a damaging scenario in your head.
it could equally be that he was late because he had a wank and he’s too embarrassed to tell you.
or he said his wife text him a few days ago and you challenged him and he didn’t want to look silly by admitting than he impulse lied.
or he really likes pot noodle and doesn’t want to admit it when you first started dating
people tell daft lies that’s just real life. If he’s perfect for you in every other way stop torturing yourself

This is it isn't it. Like if ever I've told a lie to my partner I've always end up admitting to it usually whether I'm asked about it or not. For example I told him I'd still managed to not have a vape one day and actually I had. Later on I admitted I'd failed at quitting but was too ashamed to say. I hate telling lies and it makes me feel awful but sometimes it does just happen. But it's when someone constantly lies and doesn't own up to it or give any explanation as to why. That's what's so frustrating.

It's not really the white lies that are the issue though, it's just when someone keeps lying even when challenged on something, it just leads you thinking if they lie about all these things why would you believe anything they say?

It's this.

Lies is one of the things that killed my first marriage.

I had no reason to suspect him of anything. I'd known him since school and trusted him completely. He was like an extension of myself. Only, it turned out that everything was a lie. He grew up with alcoholic parents and I now know the impact of that. He thought "happy wife, happy life" and that, as long as he said the right thing, I'd be happy.

The stress was too great for him. He ended up carrying the weight of redundancy processes in secret (which affected his behaviour towards the children and me) when I could have supported him - but he didn't want me to worry. He started spending excessively to manage his own feelings. We ended up in thousands of pounds of debt. All of which he also had to lie about. He blamed me for the lies because he was only lying to protect me. But I'd never asked him to. He eventually lied about absolutely everything. Even agreeing to holidays he hated because he didn't want to upset me by saying he hated camping!

He had therapy after we split up (actually looking for support for how badly I treated him!) and ended up taking full responsibility for it all and apologised. But it was such a shame. The lies completely eroded our marriage.

I can't do that again. It's what has made.me.more aware of/sensitive to being lied to but also why I had held back from saying anything in case I'm clouded by past experiences.

I'm the same.

I don't lie but occasionally something that isn't quite true comes out. Usually because I don't have time or the headspace to answer properly or I'm a bit embarrassed. But I always fess up later. It plays on my mind otherwise and I hate it when he's just accepted what I've said as the whole truth when it isn't. Because I don't like feeling like I'm lying to someone I care about!

I gor up really early this morning.

He's jut come downstairs and offered to make breakfast. He's back to normal now and that will be expected of me too.

He won't mention last night again now so, if anyone brings it up, it will have to be me.

Lies just erode your peace of mind over time. I've ended relationships because of lies. I couldn't be with a liar.

Ask yourself honestly (with no little white lies to yourself):

Is this the kind of unsettled life I want to live for the next ten years?

It's either a yes or no answer. Do you?

No. I don't.

I want to address it with him properly and at an appropriate time.

I want to tell him that I know he lies to me. I want to give him a couple of examples (even though a couple of the best ones are from last year!) I want him not to deny it. And I want the truth.

I want to give him the opportunity to reflect and answer honestly. I want to hear why he thinks he does it.

I don't know; I don't remember; I wasn't lying are not good enough answers.

Exactly this.

Well good luck, and I mean that. Based on personal experience and from reading multiple similar threads on here you won't get what you want or need. You are trying to clutch at wispy bits of smoke and seem surprised when you open your hand to find nothing there.

However, I really do hope your guy is the one in a million who sees the light, promises to change and actually does so. I could do with a decent happy ever ending on this board

I have 2 exes who would consistently lie.

Turns out both grew up in a household where the dad would consistently lie to the mum, mainly about going to the pub and would share the lie with the children in a "don't tell your mother" wink wink nudge nudge way.

Both blokes lied when there was no need to because I didn't give a shit that they were in the pub or out with a mate, but they literally couldn't help themselves. It was ingrained in them that they were doing something wrong and they had to lie.

The first ex, who's the father of my kids, lies so well that even when you know 100% he's lying he will not back down and would probably pass a lie detector, he's that good ☹️

My ex used to tell silly lies all the time, stupid little things like he walked home but had really got the bus, stuff that there was no reason to lie about. It turned out he also told some pretty massive ones too, like telling me he was paying the council tax then a year later bailiffs turned up. He was also lying about cheating multiple times, which is when I kicked him out. So yes OP the small lies would definitely bother me, because lying becomes a habit.