Am I over reacting?

[itshappened]

So my husband of ten years has turned out to be another middle aged cliche. He went on a work trip a few months ago where he met a client. Since then he has mentioned this woman a few times... how amazing she is, and how if he could he would love to hire her as she is awesome and so much fun. Typically he doesn't talk to women outside our friendship groups and this has been the case for nearly 20 years, so when he went on about this woman it just seemed a little off. I shouldn't have looked at his phone but I did and saw some flirtation, joking, heart emoji's... mainly from her but he was not exactly discouraging her either. I didn't mention to husband I had seen them and after that trip they didn't speak again... so I put it down as a bit of a crush that would fizzle out.

But last week when he was away for work again it turns out she was there too. We had been out for the evening and after we got back he casually mentioned that while he was away that someone had made a random comment about him fancying a woman and he said it was weird and he took himself home... so I checked his phone this morning.

There were lots of missed calls between them but no messages at all from her, even the old ones had been deleted. The thing that upset me the most is that there are hardly any other calls between him and his actual colleagues and other clients, so it couldn't be a coincidence. So I did something I shouldn't have done and retrieved them from the archive as i just knew that didn't feel right. Sure enough there are lots of flirty messages about meeting up... telling her to hurry up as he was bored... that kind of thing. I tried to stay calm but I just couldn't keep it in and have confronted him.

He started off by saying I shouldn't be looking and he can't believe I wouldn't trust him as he told me the story so had nothing to hide. Later he admitted it looks bad, and on reflection he probably was flattered by the attention as he thinks this woman fancies him, but that nothing happened. Apparently he only deleted the message because he knew if I read them out of context I might get the wrong idea.

I think I do believe nothing sexual has happened, mainly because they were clearly called out on their flirty behaviour... but I feel so hurt and let down. He keeps saying he can't believe I don't trust him and that he is a good man and a good husband. He can't believe I would react like this and accuse him of cheating. What do I do now? He keeps going on about how bad he is feeling but I honestly just don't think he is considering how it has made me feel.

@itshappened I always think in these situations that the behaviour after is as bad, if not worse than the actual betrayal. It’s one thing to mess up and be completely remorseful, and be open to questions and want to reassure the betrayed partner as long as needed. It’s another to be deceitful, break the trust then act like the victim and gaslight the other person. I also think if nothing physical has happened with this woman, it’s only a matter of time…..

To me it feels like he has broken the trust even if nothing physical has happened. he says he doesn't fancy her and was just a bit intoxicated by the attention, and I know that simply isn't true because he has never behaved like this with any other woman. I instinctively suspected something was off a few months ago as it's just so out of character for him to be texting a woman, and i was right all along. The worst thing is she is also married and has clearly been as up for it as him. But can I really break up my family over this?

The only reason nothing physical may not have happened yet is because he was caught before he had the chance to. I reckon if you left it as if you didn't suspect anything, it may eventually have gone that way OP

He yoyos so much I've caught whiplash through my screen.

He doesn't get to do what he did and then act contrite for 0.5 seconds and then make you the bad guy for not trusting him.

He.broke.the.trust.

It's not about cheating. It's about him flirting with another woman as a married man. That's a betrayal and it's broken trust and trust takes time and work FROM HIM to rebuild.

The responsibility is on him to rebuild the trust (not you to brush what he did under the carpet). And he's failing at that.

Personally I think the initial flirt was one strike, the secondary follow up, two strikes. His reaction now...strike 3. I'd be telling him to leave now.

I agree... but I just couldn't sit back and let that definitely happen. I had to call him out on it when there is at least a chance we can move past it. If he had slept with her there would be no coming back from it. Although honestly right now I feel as if he may as well have done it, because I'm disgusted by him.

@itshappened only you can decide that. I think a major red flag is the deflection he’s doing though, saying how bad he’s feeling and that he can’t believe you don’t trust him. Think he’s given you plenty of reasons there why not to trust him. His behaviour now is the reason I would end things because it doesn’t sound like he at all remorseful or that this woman is out of his system.

But is isn't you breaking up the family is it?
All the blame sits at his door

Sounds like an emotional affair at a minimum.

I don't think they know each other well enough for it to be an emotional affair... I think he just really fancies her. He admitted she is funny and good company... but all it really means is he thinks she is hot and he hasn't been able to resist being around her/ flirting with her. despite knowing it's wrong.

‘He keeps saying he can’t believe I don’t trust him’
omg.
You don’t trust him as he’s behaved in
a totally inappropriate way that’s hurt you and damaged your trust. That’s totally on him. You don’t have trust issues. He has inappropriate behaviour issues. Absolute classic behaviour to try and turn it on you to deflect the blame on him. You are very very right to be angry and upset. I’d be livid. He deleted the messages as he knew ‘you’d take them the wrong way’. No - he deleted them so you wouldn’t see them as he knew you’d rightfully be livid. His ‘confession’ was a crappy half story and he’s probably said it incase word gets back to you somehow. If you do want to move past this he has to admit he’s been out of order, massively apologise, accept it’s going to take a while for you to trust him again, not reply to this woman’s texts, not go out if this woman is there, and give you access to his phone if you ever feel you need to be reassured he’s sticking to that agreement. He’s completely crossed a line don’t let him mess with your mind you’re NOT the one who’s in the wrong here. Sending strength - been here myself and the pain and head fkery is all consuming I know.

It is typical cheater behaviour to turn it around and make you the problem. It's a deflection. I would say it is highly likely that they had sex, but in the unlikely event they did not, they still crossed a line. The trust is now gone and he's blame-shifting, so there is no real remorse on his part. His behavior with this woman is unacceptable to you, which is what matters, not whether or not he put his penis in her.
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Exactly. An emotional affair is just one that is not sexual yet or they are not currently having sex.
My ex had an affair where there had once been sex, but she stopped wanting to. He continued to see her and planned to leave me for a woman who wasn't even having sex with him. This went on for five years until he was caught.

He would be the one who broke up the family, not you. If you can't trust him, what other option do you have but to end it? You can't stay in a marriage where you have to live in fear of him cheating.

I'm just so humiliated... he keeps saying he told me what happened in the bar because it was so weird and not at all what the situation was. He apparently just thinks she is fun to hang out with... he never considered fancying her or sleeping with her... and that's why he called her more over a few days than he has called anyone else in his phone all year. But he is very angry I took his phone he thinks I've invaded his privacy and it's totally unacceptable to do what I did looking for deleted messages etc.

It's making me so mad that he is going on and on about not doing anything wrong and that I would be crazy to break up our marriage over something that didn't happen.

@itshappened honestly, his actions now would make me furious. There is nothing worse than someone who plays mind games and tries to gaslight someone. He is also full of shit and knows full well he had intentions of sleeping with her (if he hadn’t already). As someone above has said, to me he’s already had 3 strikes now. Would I want to be with someone I can’t trust on a work trip - no, would I want to be with someone who betrays me then tries to deflect, manipulate and gaslight- 100% no!

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this. Of course you didn't trust he was being truthful, he admitted straight out that it would look questionable so he deleted messages,and behaved in an untrustworthy way.
Tell him it's got nothing to do with not trusting him, but the fact he has behaved inappropriately and then was quite happy to be deceitful, once you'd found out he conveniently forgot this didn't he.

Sounds like it's time for a massive pair of pointy boots and a running kick up the arse, tell him to get his morals and his loyalty and honesty sorted out.

Maybe this is going to sound hookie cookie but...I want a partner who has a healthy soul. Who can admit mistakes, take responsibility, learn from them. Who respects my right to feel betrayed if they have fucked up.

Someone who strives for good. And lifts me into good places. Not someone who, falls into a mire...continues to roll in it...and then blames me for calling them out for stinking.

I can see that no person is perfect. That sometimes people might cross lines they shouldn't in moments of temptation and weakness. But, they need to be able to a. Pull themselves out of those places. And b. Take accountability for their mistakes. And c. Not just expect forgiveness. Because it isn't 'owed'. Even when they've taken accountability.

To me...he's a lesser evolved creature.
He's failed on every count of the above integrity examples. And that isn't good enough for me. And I don't think it should be for anyone tbh.

We should strive for people who...strive for goodness, decency, integrity and self understanding.

I hope you got copies of the messages between them. Your job is to forward them onto her husband.

This friendship, emotional/sexual affair needs bringing into the open so all concerned arn't being taken for a mug.

I hope her husbands a big chap.

And yes they do know one another very well, him texting "get a move on I'm bored" shows they are very comfortable with each other and you know its not just friendship because of the flirting and hearts.

Don't allow him to silence you, he has behaved very badly, he has effectively ended your friendship with him and maybe your marriage.

I'm sorry to keep sharing this with you all but I'm just so confused. He keeps screaming at me that he didn't do anything wrong and it was just banter with this woman, and that I should believe him after all this time we have been together. He can't believe I was suspicious about her because he told me she is impressive and great company... when not once in 20 years has he said that about another woman he has met. He is apparently devastated by my accusations, and I think he still can't believe I have gone rooting around looking for evidence when he told me what happened. But a random person doesn't just accuse you of fancying someone unless your behaviour suggests that you do in my opinion. And you don't delete innocent messages because they make you angry that someone thought that about you in a bar.. He just won't take any responsibility for this mess.

‘Hurry up I’m bored’ and heart emojis aren’t standard colleague to colleague communications. He’s also rang her several times. He’s getting defensive as he’s terrified you’re holding him accountable.
what do you want from this? Do you want to move on from it and if so what would he need to do to allow you to do that? That could be a starting point for the next discussion. Start from how you feel about it, rather than what he did. It can help diffuse a situation if you use ‘I feel’ rather than ‘you have’ eg ‘I know you are telling me nothing has happened and I want to believe that but at the moment I’m hurt and confused. It would really help me if you could xyz right now to help me understand this more and start to process how I’m feeling. I love you but this is really difficult for me to deal with, seeing messages from my husband to another woman. It makes me feel xyz’
thats how I approached it when it happened to me. Hope that helps xx

I don't know what I want... I want him to take responsibility for crossing the line and causing this mess instead of being blamed for ripping apart our family over nothing as a starting point though! I'm just very sad as honestly trust has never been an issue before, and that is why I knew this felt different.

I have experienced very similar. Never had an issue before but this one person set my senses on alert. I got told I had the problem. And I thought I was the problem for a while…then realised no actually I wasn’t, his behaviour was out of character and disrespectful to me. He finally got it. But it took months to get past the defensiveness. Maybe just go quiet on this for now, don’t bring it up again for now. Give yourself time to think and process. It’s a lot to get your head around especially when your ‘proof’ is being denied and is plausible to deny, too….you’ll find yourself on a rollercoaster of emotions. I know I did

There are always going to be moments where we might get a bit of attention from the opposite sex. He has chosen to cling on to and engage with that, rather than instantly brush it away and ignore. That in itself would hurt me a lot, and I'm so sorry you are in this state of confusion. Whatever you do, do not let him put any of the blame on you. No matter what he says, he has felt some degree of flirtatious connection to this other woman. He should not be engaging like this with another woman. End of. This is not your fault.

I hope you're ok @itshappened

It sounds like he admires this woman for whatever reason, that's what normally happens either youth, beauty or wealth. Not very comforting for you but she's a married woman with poor boundaries and morals, she's really not something to be admired, maybe in a few years he'll recognise what a idiot he is and see that this woman is just a new shiny thing but not for now.

Still he's in the thick of it, his head has been turned and the fool is taking you for granted, he's in denial at the moment and trying to turn blame on you for not trusting him, these words are trotted out by every man who denies an affair or crush.

No woman would trust him with the evidence you have.

You are not going to feel safe unless he stops working with this woman, even if he changed jobs, his working away would have you feeling hyper vigilant, this will affect yours and his relationship forever more and you would be the one doing all the work of forgiving, it's so very hard.
I hope he steps up.

Sending support