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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Can anyone help me understand the difference between childhood emotional neglect and narcissism?

14 replies

Rainbow03 · 13/06/2024 13:15

I suffered Childhood emotional neglect. I married a man (a narcissist) who also suffered and it was a disaster. From what I understand at the core both of us are the same. I took up little space and he took up lots of space. But we suffered a very similar childhood so why did he turn out to think he mattered more and I grew up to think I mattered less.

What happened to cause this difference? All I can think of is empathy, I have a lot of it.

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MyPearlAnt · 13/06/2024 14:18

You say you have suffered similar childhood, but children in the same home to the same parents can have different experiences so I wouldn't be so sure your childhood was that similar. So his emotional abuse dynamics and environment, how he coped were different to yours. Emotional abuse as you must know can manifest in different forms. I couldn't find the article that I had read on this, it was basically saying how people emerge differently from abuse, some being ultra kind and some as bad as if not worse than their abuser and it's down to many factors but this article was explaining it from attachment theory. I couldn't find it so I used Poe.com AI to help, I hope this is allowed by MumsNet rules:

The relationship between childhood emotional neglect and the development of narcissistic, people-pleasing, or codependent behaviors in adulthood is complex and influenced by various factors. There is no single definitive answer, but research and theories suggest that individual differences in temperament, attachment styles, coping mechanisms, and environmental factors can contribute to these different outcomes.

Here are some potential explanations:

Temperament: Individuals with a more sensitive or introverted temperament might be more prone to people-pleasing or codependent behaviors as a way to cope with emotional neglect. In contrast, those with a more extroverted or assertive temperament might be more likely to develop narcissistic traits.

Attachment styles: Emotional neglect in childhood can lead to insecure attachment styles, which can manifest as either anxious (people-pleasing) or avoidant (narcissistic) behaviors in adulthood.

Coping mechanisms: People-pleasers and codependents tend to use avoidance or accommodation as coping strategies, while narcissists may use more assertive or aggressive strategies to meet their emotional needs.

Environmental factors: The presence or absence of positive role models, social support, and additional stressors can influence the development of these behaviors.

Genetic factors: There is evidence suggesting that personality traits, including narcissism and codependency, have a genetic component. Thus, a person's genetic predisposition might play a role in determining which traits they develop in response to childhood emotional neglect.

There are several studies and articles that discuss the relationship between childhood emotional neglect and the development of narcissistic, people-pleasing, or codependent behaviors. Here are some resources to consider:

"Childhood Emotional Neglect and Adult Attachment: Associations With Parental Verbal and Physical Abuse" by Susan Crockenberg, published in the Journal of Marital and Family Therapy (^www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1752-0606.2008.00052.x)^

"Childhood Emotional Neglect as a Predictor of Adult Attachment Styles and Interpersonal Problems" by Wei-Chung Chen, published in the Journal of Child and Family Studies (^link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10826-012-9565-0)^

"Childhood Emotional Neglect: A Neglected Component in the Development of Narcissism" by Craig Malkin, published in Psychology Today (^www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/raising-narcissism/201504/childhood-emotional-neglect-neglected-component-the-development)^

"The Role of Childhood Emotional Neglect in the Development of Codependency" by Ross Rosenberg, published in the Codependency Journal (^rossrosenberg.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/The-Role-of-Childhood-Emotional-Neglect-in-the-Development-of-Codependency.pdf)^
^^
These resources offer a starting point for understanding the relationship between childhood emotional neglect and the development of narcissistic, people-pleasing, or codependent behaviors. However, more research is needed to fully understand the complex interplay of factors that contribute to these outcomes.

Girlmom35 · 13/06/2024 14:20

It's about what helped you survive your childhood.
We all develop strategies to help us to have as many of our emotional needs met as possible. Your personality will have an influence on this, so will your upbringing.

For example: Some children live with an unpredictable, explosive parent and learn to become invisible, because they learn that being invisible helps them avoid the outbursts. But some abusive parents will still come looking for the child when they hide, so those children will rather develop a strategy for escape, always having an exit plan. If that only angers the parent more, maybe they will develop a people pleasing side so they can prevent outbursts by taking care of everything their parents need and being a perfect child.
Some children only have their needs met if they are loud and demanding, so they become loud and demanding adults.
Some children learn to shut down emotionally and never share anything.

If you find out what helped you survive your childhood, you also know what your strategy still is to this day. And most likely, it's not doing you any favours. Because we attract partners who are complementory to our survival mechanisms and who take on the same role as the parent who abused or neglected us.

MyPearlAnt · 13/06/2024 14:22

so your emotional neglect in childhood caused you anxious attachment and his emotional neglect in childhood caused him avoidant attachment. That's one possible theory explaining this...

Can anyone help me understand the difference between childhood emotional neglect and narcissism?
Rainbow03 · 13/06/2024 14:51

Ah cool that makes sense, we all have a disposition and a personality. I forget this is something we are born with. All our brains are different.

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TwoThousandAcresofBlueSkyThinking · 13/06/2024 15:04

Also be aware that a big part of narcissistic behaviour is lying (and they can be very believable) so all that he has told you may not be true. They are ever the victim.

Rainbow03 · 13/06/2024 15:51

@TwoThousandAcresofBlueSkyThinking hmmm didn’t think about that. I know the abuse happened because his mum mentioned it also.

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Amendment · 13/06/2024 16:00

Girlmom35 · 13/06/2024 14:20

It's about what helped you survive your childhood.
We all develop strategies to help us to have as many of our emotional needs met as possible. Your personality will have an influence on this, so will your upbringing.

For example: Some children live with an unpredictable, explosive parent and learn to become invisible, because they learn that being invisible helps them avoid the outbursts. But some abusive parents will still come looking for the child when they hide, so those children will rather develop a strategy for escape, always having an exit plan. If that only angers the parent more, maybe they will develop a people pleasing side so they can prevent outbursts by taking care of everything their parents need and being a perfect child.
Some children only have their needs met if they are loud and demanding, so they become loud and demanding adults.
Some children learn to shut down emotionally and never share anything.

If you find out what helped you survive your childhood, you also know what your strategy still is to this day. And most likely, it's not doing you any favours. Because we attract partners who are complementory to our survival mechanisms and who take on the same role as the parent who abused or neglected us.

Good post, @Girlmom35.

Rainbow03 · 14/06/2024 09:28

In real life a mum (emotionally non existent) has two children. One has zero emotions, hoards and the other has to have to best, works shit loads of hours to get the money to have the biggest house, only designer clothes etc etc. Anything less than expensive means it’s not worthy. Does this sound like a response to the non emotional upbringing. The mum avoids me like the plague and any emotional situation is missing. Anything emotional mentioned and she literally avoids it.

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redskydarknight · 14/06/2024 09:34

Rainbow03 · 14/06/2024 09:28

In real life a mum (emotionally non existent) has two children. One has zero emotions, hoards and the other has to have to best, works shit loads of hours to get the money to have the biggest house, only designer clothes etc etc. Anything less than expensive means it’s not worthy. Does this sound like a response to the non emotional upbringing. The mum avoids me like the plague and any emotional situation is missing. Anything emotional mentioned and she literally avoids it.

Remember the two children won't have had the same experience even if they had the same parent. There may well have been a scapegoat/golden child dynamic.

Those both sound like responses to trauma - one person feels unloved and has shut themselves away emotionally and hoards as a way to cope with anything that might be thrown at them (so they don't have to rely on anyone else). The other may be perfectionist or trying to prove that they are "worthy" via their achievements.

Rainbow03 · 14/06/2024 09:40

Oh @redskydarknight the hoarder is my partner. I never thought of it like that. I always thought he was ND but that’s just 😞

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Rainbow03 · 14/06/2024 09:49

I’ve wondered if the mum ignores me because she knows I know something “strange” is going on! I know I’m part of the dynamic although I try to pay little attention to it.

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redskydarknight · 14/06/2024 09:55

Rainbow03 · 14/06/2024 09:40

Oh @redskydarknight the hoarder is my partner. I never thought of it like that. I always thought he was ND but that’s just 😞

Well he might be ND of course. I don't know your partner and clearly you shouldn't take the suggestion of a random on the internet as gospel. :)

However your description was basically myself and my brother (I'm not a hard core hoarder but I keep a lot of things "just in case" that most people would throw away) and it very much is a response to knowing that I can't rely on others, that I learnt from emotionally neglectful parents.

Baaliali · 14/06/2024 09:56

I am not sure that narcissistic behaviour and codependency are as different as people might think they are. Both DH and I come from very narcissistic backgrounds and we have put a tonne of work into recovery from them. I would say that some of our family members vere towards narcissistic behaviour and some codependency but neither is easy for others to tolerate. My extremely codependent MIL and SIL are ruthlessly manipulative about getting their needs met covertly via all sorts of manipulation where as my grandiose Bro, Fat, Moth and FIL are cruel and merciless about enforcing others to meet their needs.

Rainbow03 · 14/06/2024 10:06

@redskydarknight he has got a huge amount better since moving in together. It’s mostly now just the possessions from childhood to us meeting he has collected. He still has a tendency to worry that something we throw he may need but with a gentle it’s ok we can always get later usually works.

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