Heated disagreement about gender affirmation

[NeatBiscuit]

My partner and I got into a heated disagreement tonight about gender affirmation for children. She supports it but I do not support the surgery part in children. I don't mind someone pretending to be the opposite gender but I can't get behind bottom surgery in children.

My concerns with bottom surgery in children are as follows:

a) children and doctors can be wrong
b) the decision is irreversible
c) there could be complications from surgery
d) not knowing the long term effects of hormones and puberty blockers

I'm not an expert on the topic but I do feel my concerns are valid.

My partner is admittedly more knowledgeable on the subject than me. Her father is trans gender. She is also involved in the LGBTQ community. However, whenever we try to talk about the subject, she gets emotional, accuses me of listening to far right political commentators, and storms out of the room. We can't have a calm, civil discussion about the topic without her getting emotional.

We don't have children but we have been talking about it. My question is should such a disagreement be a deal breaker for a relationship? It bothers me that she won't acknowledge my concerns on a topic that is already very controversial to begin with.

Dealbreaker for me too. Being accused of being a far-right supporter when you’re expressing serious concerns about the mental and physical health of children is unacceptable in any relationship or friendship.

I have no problem with adults deciding that they want to live as transgender and I will always support their right to live a life free from judgement and discrimination.

But it is insanity to suggest that a child or a teenager is mentally and emotionally equipped to make such a decision and have irreversible surgery.

I am a member of the LGBTQ community and a lefty but that does not mean I support something that is so obviously harmful and nonsensical.

Once someone is over 18 and has a bit of life experience and knows their own mind (rather than being influenced by peers or trends), then they can do as they wish but before that parents and society need to protect kids.

So back to your partner OP, I would find it difficult to live and have kids with someone who has these views.

I wouldn’t want to have a coffee with her, let alone a relationship and definitely not a child. You quite obviously can’t have a child with someone who thinks cutting the cock and balls off little boys for the “crime” of being effeminate is a positive act. Part of parenting is facilitating your children’s comfort and happiness within their own personality and skin so parenting with someone who tells their dc that they are “wrong” for their temperament or hobbies or body is difficult. If you don’t want children and take belt and braces precautions to ensure you never have any, then maybe a relationship is possible but only you can decide that. There are plenty of people in relationships that are baffling to outsiders. The Trumps spring to mind, or Matt Handcock, and there are obviously far darker examples. It would be a hard no from me though.

Hard agree. I couldn't live with someone who was prepared to sacrifice their own children in service of an ideology that is completely detached from reality.

Whatever you do, don't have children with her! Thank your lucky stars you got a clear warning early enough to dodge that bullet.

Oh sadly it happens. Google Susie Green who took her son abroad to be castrated for his 16th birthday. She gave a TED talk, since removed, blatantly saying her son’s father was not happy that their son liked My Little Pony etc. He said by letting him have those things the mother was encouraging him to be gay. He didn’t want a gay son. So they transed him. Quite shocking. Terribly sad.

Bottom surgery is the rather childish terminology used instead of ‘penis and testicle removal’ or ‘castration’ or ‘sewing on a fleshy tube to the groin (dissected from the arm or leg) that looks a bit like a penis’. In my opinion deliberately to down play the seriousness of what is going on. They call double mastectomies for girls who want to be boys ‘top surgery’.

I know about susie green. That was an anomaly. Even Thailand doesn't allow that any more.

Can’t bear the coy euphemisms used to talk about removing healthy body parts. “Bottom surgery” - so twee. It’s anything but.

Why isn’t the correct medical terminology used? (Rhetorical question) This euphemistic language only ever seems to be used in the field of magic rainbow thinking aka trans ideology. You have breast cancer? Perhaps you need a mastectomy. You are deluded enough to think that having your breasts removed will turn you into a man? Knock yourself out with “top surgery”.

You are arguing on a hypothetical situation, as the chance of your children ever questioning their biological gender is slim. Our view is shaped by our experience, so your partner's strong view may be because she had seen her trans father's struggles, and for me it's not necessarily a red flag. My main concern would be how you are dealing with this argument. We are living in a polarising world, sooner or later one of you will adopt a radical view about something. If the attitude is "my way or the highway", I'm not sure the relationship can work.

Just to clarify by you I mean you both.

you're not alligned, time to say goodbye to this relationship, i think. It is not going to change much

@NeatBiscuit Does your partner think that genders need to have certain types of body to go with them? Why? Surely that is either hugely sexist, or transphobic, or both?

Can she explain why "who someone is as a person" means their bodies are flawed and necessitate changing? What is it about a person that means having, or not having, certain body parts is essential?

Can you sound her out on this because I've never understood it - unless of course she is confusing gender identity and biological sex (which is common, but not helpful when talking about gender).

It's not hypothetical.

You either believe its OK to surgically mutilate children based on a false narrative or you don't.

The children are hypothetical. But the view is not. And lots of people can't reconcile with someone of the opposite view on this.

Me and dp will never have children. If he thought children should be allowed this surgery or hormones, because they think they might be trans, I wouldn't be with him. Same as I wouldn't be with him if he didn't see the problem with FGM.

Is her father actually her father, or is her mother now a trans man that she calls father?

Surgery isn’t performed (in the UK) on children.

Puberty blockers are damaging enough.

But in answer to your question, if you can't have a reasonable discussion about things, its not a good relationship.
Times are changing around all this anyway, thanks to The Cass Report and the beginnings of a dialogue about it all, in the UK at least.

I personally agree with much of what's already been said, however in the interests of trying to solve your communication impasse... When you say you are trying to have a conversation with her... are you actually curious about her views, and listening to her, or are you trying to 'win' and force her around to your way of thinking?

Perhaps asking why she thinks something is a good idea, asking if she thinks it is always a good idea or if only in some cases, how those cases should be determined, what should be done when it isn't the best option, what happens if a mistake is made and someone regrets their choice etc... You may not agree on everything but I think you will find some things you do agree on and take some of the heat out of the discussion.

It is personal for her and if she feels you are attacking her parent in your arguments (even if that's not your intention) she may end up defending a view she doesn't actually hold or being too emotional to continue the conversation.