Wwyd next… leave?

[Lking6795]

I’ve been with my husband for 12 years and married for 8.
We have three children aged 6 and under.
lack of affection, physical touch and intimacy keeps coming up as a problem.

We did have counselling but everything they’d raised we’d already discussed through with each other… managing expectations, initiating intimacy, resentment, flagging when it’s an issue etc.

Certainly it’s important to my love languages and self esteem to feel physical touch and hopefully desired.
At the moment we take it in turns to cosleep with our toddler whilst the other parent goes in the other double room. She still wakes a lot, it’s very tiring. We did this because my preschooler also woke up in the night and coming into the main bedroom would wake up the toddler too and it was a nightmare. But preschooler now pretty much sleeping through.

I said that we should try and get back in the same bedroom now. He asked me about it last night and said he thought it was just easier to stay as is because our toddler is waking up still, I said about us both being in that room (toddler is in cot with side off against a super king bed) and he said it would disturb her too much (not talking about intamacy there just physically being together and possibly a cuddle!).

So basically I’ve asked him to be in the same room again now and he’s just declined the offer.

Feeling sad and rejected and ignored again. He doesn’t seem to care about any of it.

I know physical intimacy isn’t everything to some people but the situation is making me really sad (I’m 38, he’s 42).

WWYD next? We can talk about it sure, we always do once I’ve gotten over the initial hurt, but I’m just tired of all this and everything. :(

Get those kids sleeping in their own room alone for a start. The kids are holding you hostage.

Three under six is hard work. I’d stab anyone who wanted sex after three kids hanging off me all day. But on a serious note, doing that parenting as a single parent you’d be even worse off.

i think start with the kids and then build up your relationship again.

Okay. We both don’t do sleep training. We’ve tried it and we’re really uncomfortable with it. It’s just not for us.

It’s not really sex it’s any sort of affection or intamacy. It’s come up as a problem a few times before the sleeping arrangements and it’s just another blow to try and get in the same room and it be a no.

Well you’ve clearly managed three times in the last six years 🙂

I’m not sure why you are uncomfortable with sleep training but it adds to my thinking that the kids are running the house. I’m not talking about Victorian crying until they pass out. If you have a toddler I assume 1-2 years and they have enough language to understand reward then you could find a system to encourage sleeping through like their bigger siblings. And if they still nap then start cutting down on that as they are too awake in the night.

Your husband may be using the cosleeping as a shield, I don’t know but either way he has turned into a night nanny and that combined with lack of sleep is probably not making him feel super sexy either.
If he had the snip that might also impact his virility.

Your love language is physical touch, what are his?

Get the Ferber sleep training book. It's brilliant.
You'll be able to reclaim your bed. And your children will sleep properly for the first time.

We’ve done Ferber. I personally don’t like the crying. We did it with the middle one and she cried for 40 minutes (we kept going into her increasing the time) and I just thought they’re only young for such a short time… just roll with it (her sleep improved but when she got ill she regressed again so it felt like it was all for nothing anyway).

When little one was a newborn and pretty onlivious we were in the same room as each other and older one would just come in it was just when the little one was getting disturbed we had to change that. So I don’t really get the reticence now.

My kids don’t rule the roost I’d say I’m quite a strict parent actually. But when it comes to sleep and they’re crying out for us it’s just something I don’t like leaving them to resolve. And neither does he. I mean a sleep consultant would laugh at us I’m sure but it’s our choice right?

My issue is more yet another rejection and physical intimacy just not being something he’s bothered about. These pages are full of partners who are in the same situation and I am just so bored of it all. And it shuts me down. Will I ask again? Very unlikely because of the crushing fallout when we don’t see eye to eye. It’s our children that suffer because I can be sad and disconnected about it (like I say not first time).

I honestly don’t know what to suggest. Are you expecting him to pop in for a quick shag and then go back to the toddler room?

He sounds overwhelmed and exhausted by the parenting experience and I’m surprised that his needs have not been articulated more clearly through all this talking and counselling you’ve had. Actually that might have eroded things further and made him feel like he is emasculated and has to rely on strangers to tell him what’s wrong with his family life.

Park the sleep issue for awhile and take time to think about what he needs and wants. Don’t ask him, enough chit chat. What are the things that would bring him back to prekid him? Does he need more alone time? Time with guys raises testosterone in men so sending them away to do man shit can pay off at home.

This was an issue pre kid.
We had counselling across the timeline of our children.

It’s not an exhausted thing (though comes in to play). It’s an mis match thing and has been going on as part of the dynamic of the relationship. Its not just sex it’s basically any sort of physical and sometimes emotional connection.

If he felt emasculated by counselling well I didn’t drag him there he was willing participant.

i don’t know what to suggest either, this relationship seems punctuated by these periods of coldness and disappointment. That’s why I’m wondering what people would do.

His love language is acts of service, and I run round for him all the time as most women do for their partners and he does things for me. But I’d rather he be more affectionate than expect that doing the school run with the kids should give me the fuzzies.

Can you try for more physical affection outside of the bedroom? Cuddles on the sofa, hugs, hand holding etc?

It sounds miserable, OP. Does he know that you're on the verge of giving up on the relationship? Sex and intimacy are important, they're what binds couples together. It's called 'making love' for a reason - if you don't make new love reasonably regularly, you may not have enough to get you through.

I'd say tell him you now think the next step is separation. He may not have realised this is where you're at. Or maybe that's where he's at, too.

Every time I say it’s the last time but it never is is it?

I know it must seem trivial but basically the lack on interest in going back in the same bedroom is on back of a history of disinterest in physical and emotional intimacy. Relationships are meant to be more than passing ships in the night.

Just trying to understand this better. So you were together four years and married two before the kids came along and already you had problems? You married an incompatible person but you also got together when you were very young and these things happen. Hindsight is 20:20 vision.

If you are prepared to go it alone with three super young kids and can come to a fairly amicable agreement with him about this then perhaps that is for the better but you should also be prepared that this may mean a long wait for Mr Perfect.

I’ll try not to colour the page too much with my own stupid ex but he too was an act of service guy but that turned out to be rooted in a deep narcissistic need to be seen as a good person. Words of affirmation and as his other receiving love language but never reciprocated.

I think it's a genuine case of incompatibility. I don't think it'll improve as this is who he is. You have different needs from one another. If it was ever going to resolve it would have by now.
Might be better in the long term to split.

Sorry it's not something more positive. I'm being honest.

If I'm reading this correctly, his emotional unavailability and lack of affection and intimacy predate the birth of your children? So one has to ask why you decided to have one, let alone three.

What is done is done, but from what you say you do seem incompatible, so separating looks to be the logical next step.

How are your finances - do you work? You need a plan.

Before we got married we did a pre marriage thing with the vicar who insisted upon it and intamacy came up and I categorically stated I would not want a sexless marriage and he categorically stated neither did he. So basically I thought we had the agreement and tools and understanding to see us through and a way to compromise. That my need for intimacy for sex and general physical affection was understood and the compromise was about me flagging when I felt it was lacking and us making an effort to meet in the middle somewhere re just enough for me and not too much for him given he isn’t a cuddly person.
otherwise he is kind, generous, hard working and a good father. I went into this marriage hopeful and with my eyes open.
i feel like regardless of what we said it has and keeps going out the window. A suggestion by me to get back in the same room and his basic response being no leaves us where? In a sexless marriage.
We weren’t young when we got together I was mid to late twenties.

I don’t know if the situation would improve as our kids get older and with childcare costs I don’t see financially how we can separate. I have no family around me they live 200 miles away so no family support at all.
i am the higher earner.

Not on that comment but fundamentally I think there is a misconception that you leave a relationship to find Mr perfect elsewhere.
That is not the case. If I leave a relationship and never have sex again then fine, but that is a better emotional prospect that being rejected by someone who is supposed to love you.

Anyway basically we had a chat last night where obviously I got upset. Which was
“when I ask us to try and go in the same bedroom and you make excuses how do you think that makes me feel given our history?!” And ended with “i don’t want to be here and i feel resentful for the kids because i have to stay.”
Which was a bit dramatic and because I said “how many times can this issue keep coming up on our scoresheet?”

His first reaction was to say “I knew you were upset I don’t know why you don’t talk to me sooner” to which my reply is when I’m thinking like that it’s obviously dramatic and I am trying to calm down and I feel that’s a bit gaslighty because it’s not me not talking about it …. It’s the fact it’s an ongoing issue that’s the problem.

Anyway the last few days have let me calm down and he said sorry and said we needed a plan to get together in a room on our own… but given our toddlers sleep patterns that’s a long way off. I’m sure I’ll get a hug off him later though because he didn’t like seeing me upset. And given the context of other mumsnet threads and twat partners I feel like I should be grateful.

One issue is and has been since having my children I feel really far away from my family and have a lack of emotional support. I tried to move us back there but my work makes that impossible given where my jobs are based in the country and the commuting costs if we moved. It’s basically another mortgage.

This is what makes it tricky every time we do talk it out he’s obviously concerned, attentive and reassures me about it all. And in the whole of him as a person it doesn’t seem worth throwing it all away. But I know something like this will happen again.

It sounds like you're stuck in a cycle. You drift further and further apart. You make a bid for closeness, he rejects it. You get upset and talk to him, he promises that things will change. Then the cycle repeats.

He doesn't want the marriage to end, but how does he see it working if he doesn't want sex with you? Have you ever discussed his sexuality with him, e.g. is he more attracted to men? Would you want to stay together and parent together in a platonic relationship?

It sounds like very clearly he is not interested in a sexual relationship with you. He only agrees to intimate contact under threat of the relationship ending. For whatever reason, he does not want sex. I think you are going to have to accept that - you cannot pressure him into it and I'm sure you don't want to have sex with someone when you know they don't really want it with you.

I think you have to make a choice: stay in the marriage knowing that it will be a sexless one. Or leave the marriage and hope you both find happiness elsewhere. Maybe you can agree to stay together platonically while the kids are little. Maybe you can see other people. But you're going to have to decide to stop this cycle of misery.

His counter argument to that is that he does want sex/physical intimacy and for him to push back on same bedrooms until our toddler was sleeping better is not him saying no to intimacy but him being practical about what getting back in the same bedroom means. It still feels like rejection though. I’m not sure how practical you want your partner to be when it comes to desire.

As far as I’m aware of his sexuality and his internet history he isn’t gay.

Practically I think whatever happens over the next few years I’m going to have to roll with, and when the kids are older and easier and hopefully sleeping well if there remains a lack of intimacy then a I have always said I don’t want a sexless marriage and I won’t.

That's so sad, OP. I hope you can find a way forward.

I’ve been through periods like this with my DH. He’s just not a touchy feely person. Also, he’s surprisingly sensitive to criticism — I’m really straight-talking and often hurt his feelings by accident. He’s diplomatic and considered, which I find sweet but infuriating. So I was going around hurting his feelings which was turning him off from cuddles, etc.

I’m trying to remember how we got past this. It definitely got better. I’ll try to remember the lightbulb moment!

These early parenting years are so, so hard on a marriage. It’s much easier later on.

I’d focus on the sleeping. Keep looking until you find a solution that works for you.

I think the bedroom is a red herring here.

To me it sounds like it's the lack of intent. Yes circumstances currently prevent you being in the same bedroom, but circumstances don't prevent cuddles on the sofa or other ways of being intimate and feeling emotionally connected.

I would also suspect that the fact it feels like you are the only one pursuing connection is a massive part of it. The simple act of him bringing up the issue would at least show you that you are not alone in this and that he too wants the intimacy.

It was telling that in response to hearing you were upset he mentions that you didn't talk to him sooner. Why did he not bring it up if he knew you were upset?

I think this is a much bigger picture issue and actually having the focus on intimacy and the sleeping arrangements is distracting from the fundamentals. If he loves you, if he is committed to having a fulfilling relationship that serves you both, then he will need to take on some of the emotional labour. He will have to make the first move sometimes when it comes to emotionally connecting, checking in, addressing issues. It's not enough for him to claim emotional coldness as a personality trait and expect you to suck it up. It is great that he was open to therapy but that seems to me like he was finding another way to outsource his responsibility to the emotional aspect of your relationship.

A previous poster urged you to consider his needs but I disagree. I think you must continue and even go further into centering your own needs, at least until he can meet you halfway, because currently his needs are being catered to by both of you, and he is side stepping his responsibility to cater to yours.

This book is for you

She's also appeared on loads of podcasts recently launching this latest book so if you stick her name into wherever you get your podcasts there is ample to listen to if you don't have the inclination to read a book with three kids under 6.

I don't personally think you're in divorce territory yet, but you need a new tactic to dig your way out of the pit you're in, which is circumstantial and could get easier, I don't think it's necessarily terminal.

this might also be helpful.

@Lking6795 are their cuddles on the sofa together, little touches and squishes when around each other? Kisses hello or goodbye? I would feel a bit better about the bedroom issue if at least there was physical signs of affection elsewhere

It's such a difficult situation.

My ex husband was the same, sex was never really important to him but obviously society pushes the narrative that men are sex pests and woman just want kids and once they have them want to be left alone.

So he was always full of promises that he did actually want a sexual relationship, and reasons why it wasn't happening, honestly he just couldn't bring himself to admit that he doesn't fit the profile of "normal man".

I've read/heard from so many woman who don't care if they never have sex again, which to be honest made me spend years believing that I was the problem.
Everyone else wanted a husband just like mine, decent job, cooks, shops etc and never pesters for sex.

But it destroyed our relationship completely, the excuses and broken promises ate away at any good will I had for him. His attitude was always that he was perfectly fine with the situation so why should he make any effort to change it.

I eventually left him when I realised that my decision to have our youngest child was heavily influenced by the knowledge that pregnancy, breastfeeding and lack of sleep would reduce my libido for a couple of years, and remaining a SAHM for a bit longer would put off the enviable temptations when I "got back out in the world and started meeting other men".

My ex husband is a lovely man, we're still friends and co parent very well, but ultimately I never wanted to live and co parent with someone who was just a friend.

The decision to end my marriage was the hardest one I've ever made, I was consumed by uncertainty and guilt that I was ultimately breaking the family over sex, but it has been the right decision for me.

I wish you all the best in finding the right decision for you all.

Hello all, this is my hubby.