What’s going on with my mum? - Book/podcast recommendations?

[Whatsupwithmum]

I’ve been struggling with my relationship with my mum for a while now and am trying to find some reading or listening material that I can relate to, mainly to feel like I’m not alone, maybe to understand her a little better, and perhaps for some pointers as to how to deal with the feelings that her actions bring up in me.

I’ve had a bit of a listen to some books on narcissistic mothers, borderline personality disorder mothers and emotionally immature mothers and, whilst all 3 describe some aspects of her behaviour, probably about 70% of the behaviours described in each book don’t apply. Of course, perhaps she’s just a bit troubled and there’s no label. I do think she has anxiety to some degree and, now that I’m old enough to reflect back (I’m in my 30s), I think she probably always has had some level of anxiety. I also think she has regressed in terms of maturity since my sister died 6yrs ago.

It would be so helpful to have something to hang her behaviours on.

This is probably going to make this a ridiculously long post, but some examples of her key behaviours:

• Everything (EVERYTHING!) is negative. Or makes her ‘feel SO angry!’
• Everyone is an idiot/lazy/selfish/thoughtless/useless (including me).
• Everything is black or white. No ability to see the grey or accept that someone else might feel a different way, see something differently, have other priorities. Anyone who sees or does something differently to her is an idiot/rude/useless/lazy/selfish/thoughtless/useless.
• Every conversation is taken straight back to her. Like every single thing (e.g. Having finally been well enough to be moved from resus in A&E, I phoned her to tell her that I’d miscarried and nearly died due to massive hemorrhaging, needing two blood transfusions, and literally the first thing she said, in a really snarky and unkind tone was “Well, NOW you know how I felt when I was anaemic after giving birth to YOU”.) Or she takes it back to one of her top 10 topics (my sister dying/the environment/tomatoes being tasteless these days (I kid you not)/her ex boss from 20 years ago/her moving schools when she was a kid).
• In fact everything is about her. I’d hoped to host her 60th birthday at my house, but ended up giving birth the morning before her birthday, so I was still in hospital on her birthday. So my daughter (and I quote) “RUINED my 60th birthday! I’ll never let her forget that!”. I mean I literally just gave birth to your first grandchild but whatever.
• She is quite unkind to everyone. She’s rude and intolerant to people she doesn’t know. She constantly tells me and her husband that we’re all of the things in point 2. To get through it, I’ve started to play ‘how many ways can I be shit today bingo’ with my husband when I call or we see her.
• She is SUPER needy and almost infantile.
• Honestly I could go on and on… and I feel like she’s regressing and kind of spiraling out of control.

So yeah. Any advice for things to read or listen to that relate to this kind of behavior are very welcome. ‘I’m in the same situation’ posts are also welcome. Now that I have two children of my own I feel like I need to get my head together on this stuff and make sure not to repeat it down another generation. I also feel like I need to protect them from it as she has started some of the same (and new, needy, odd) behaviors with them now.

I know it sounds trite, but what good does the relationship bring you? Because you don't owe her your time or company and she frankly sounds terrible.

Whilst it's most likely she does have some issues, and no doubt unresolved trauma over the death of your sister (I'm very sorry OP for your loss), none of those things give her a reason or excuse to be nasty. I understand why you want to be able to attribute a cause, but that won't change her behaviour, so does it really do any good? Or is it better to focus on better ways to manage/reduce your relationship with her?

Hi whatsup

how much of a change is this for your dm? Was she warm and kind when you were a child?

Ok, I'm saying this with kindness and as someone with a difficult relationship with my mother too but why are you tolerating this behaviour. In some respects does it matter why she behaves in this way - I wonder instead of trying to understand it you need to focus in on what your boundaries need to be and what you need to keep you emotionally safe. It was when I had my DD that I started to become much more alive to how unhealthy my relationship with my parents was and the impact it had on me in many different ways. I find counselling incredibly helpful to think all this through, to process the emotions and the hurt and to work through how I can address coping mechanisms I've developed as a result that don't serve me any more. One of my key drivers is that I don't want for my DD to have the same experience I have had. In essence I would look at how you can focus your attention away from your mum and her needs and onto your own.

What EnterFunnyNameWrote. It is not your fault she is like this and you did not make her that way. Her own family did that.

re your comment:
"Now that I have two children of my own I feel like I need to get my head together on this stuff and make sure not to repeat it down another generation."

That is unlikely to happen also because you have two qualities that she lacks; empathy and insight. I would however, also keep your children as well as yourself well away from your mother going forward. Its really not possible to have a relationship with someone this disordered of thinking. You may want to read the Out of the FOG website.

How did she get along with her late sister?. Narcissists can and do behave worse with age as "authority figures" they despised and feared in equal measure die off.

Consider seriously reducing the number of visits you make because it has not and will not do you any good to be her audience. She's always had a choice when it came to you and she chose the same old shit that was done to her. She never sought, nor wanted to seek, the necessary help. She's never apologised nor has accepted any responsibility for her actions has she.

You are probably one of the last, if not the only, person who bothers with her at all now because you've received the Special Training to put her needs first with your own dead last. I will tell you that people like your mother are really not worth bothering about and the sky will not fall in on you if you reduce contact to zero sum.

What do you know about her own childhood, that often gives clues.

Sounds like a narcissist op, my mum is like this and we’ve not spoken in 10 years now. My anxiety has gone down and I feel free of it, she abused me for many years and I just tolerated it. Because we have to love our mums don’t we?
But like we’d tell a woman to leave an abusive man, you don’t need to tolerate it either. It will only bring you down.

Is this new or since her daughter died? If this has been over the last six years, I suspect it's grief, particularly the anger and negativity.
If she's always been like this, then, For your own mental health, you probably need to step away and go low contact. If she's always been like this, she won't change, but the fact you say she's become more infantile suggests she hasn't come to terms with losing her daughter.
Can you talk to her about your sister, without her biting your head off? Could you suggest grief counselling,or would should be disparaging about it?
Alternatively keep things light, don't get drawn in, and limit contact to short visits/ calls and keep everything at a superficial level (hard as that might be, but you need to keep your own well-being no.1 priority).

Thank you all so much for your replies - I’m really very grateful for your time.

Much to think about, especially what the relationship brings me. I’ve never thought about that.

I have naturally ended up being fairly low contact (much to her displeasure - to her this is another sign of how useless I am and I am regularly greeted with a slightly passive aggressive “Hello Stranger!” when we do eventually speak 🙄). Combined, I probably see her for max 14 days each year, with a definite 48hr cap on any visits.
I can be nice and polite until this point, but then start feeling pretty overwhelmed and cranky.

As for whether she was warm and kind when I was a child @speakball no not especially. I genuinely consider her to have been a good mum until I was about 13/14 when she met my step dad, but she wasn’t that warm or necessarily particularly kind. Looking back as an adult I can see the selfish behaviours for what they are, but as a child I guess my world revolved around her anyway (I loved her so very much and felt very loved by her), that it seemed natural for everything to revolve around her.

So I think she’s always been a bit like this and pretty anxious and nit-picky (which is very much a product of her childhood, so she genuinely has my sympathy there), it got worse when my step dad came on the scene and my sister and I very much became targets, then it was alright when I left home, until my sister got sick, then she’s really lost it since then. @anunlikelyseahorse She had a bit of counselling straight after my sister died, but I am wondering whether to suggest more as she’s still really hung up on it and on other earlier experiences in her life too. Not sure how it would go down, probably a hard no, but I don’t thiiiiink she’d take it badly?

As for why I’m tolerating the behaviour @benjaminsniddlegrass: Honestly? I absolutely hate conflict (she was very shouty at home and my sister would fight her back and point out my mums behaviours, so there were quite few arguments between them over the years and I hated it and would just freeze and hide in my room or the bathroom!) and nowadays I find it much easier to just soak it all in and then debrief with my husband and get it all back out again when we’re home. Also if I point out that anything she’s doing or saying isn’t ok I think she might implode 😅 although I realise that this means that I’m kind of enabling her. My grandmother told her some home truths about her behaviour about a year ago and my mum’s response was (dramatic voice) ‘I feel like I don’t have a mother anymore!’. She’s really fragile.

Whilst it’s confusing, I feel a deep affection for her and I feel really sorry for her that life has lead to her being like this, as it pushes people away and stops her having the relationships with people that she so wants. I think she’s from a generation that wouldn’t think to get help. So maybe I should gently suggest it.

@Atillathemeerkat (excellent name!) thanks so much for the comment about it being unlikely that I’ll do the same. I really hope I don’t! And thank you so much for the website suggestion - much appreciated.

@knitgoodwoman I too suspect that I have anxiety, and in the past have had other mental health issues that I feel like I can trace back to her. I’m sorry that you have also experienced similar.

So thanks all. It’s good to know that I’m not going mad; her behaviour is actually off. It’s not like this 100% of the time. Maybe 60%. It makes me feel quite conflicted because I love her, but I don’t always love being around her.

You’ve been trained and or otherwise conditioned to not like conflict, confrontation or otherwise rocking the boat. It’s an emotional state often seen in adult children of toxic parents like your mother. It’s ok to love your mother and not actually like her.

What’s your stepdad like, is he still in your life?. Was/is he like her?

Shes had a choice though when it came to you and she’s chosen the same old as what was done to her. You suggesting anything like therapy or counselling to her is not going to go down well so I would not bother at all suggesting this. This is who she is and she is not going to change. You can only change how you react to her. I do think she does not want a relationship with other people because she feels she is “superior” to them in all ways.

We are programmed to love our parents anyway, no matter how crap,
abusive or batshit they are.

You are so right about her feeling superior to others! I hadn't seen it that way but you're right - everyone else is rubbish in her view.

Also you're right that she's chosen to treat me as she was treated herself, although she seems completely blind to it - she'll sit there monologuing about how her parents always picked her apart and it was so toxic at home and so hard for her and I'm sat looking at her like 'Er... hello... can you not see that you did exactly the same to me...?'

I started reading the emotionally absent mother by Jasmin Lee Cori. I had to stop as I just wasn't ready to deal with it. But my mum sounds a lot like yours so maybe you'll have more luck? I've also heard mixed reviews about the book you wish your parents read.