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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

17 years, Cheating, unplanned pregnancy, miscarriage, rose coloured glasses

19 replies

Lost34 · 16/05/2024 13:15

I don’t really know what I want to gain from posting this other than to having a sounding board for everything that I’m feeling! (Long post alert)

my partner and I have been together for 17.5 years, lived together for 12.5 years but not married, we have 3 children following a period of 4 years of infertility on my part. Both my pregnancies were conceived through medicated IUI (4yr old and 3yr old old twins). Following the first I found out I had an autoimmune condition, which had an impact following my 2nd pregnancy in terms of my mental health and energy levels particularly when I went back to work. Our intimacy levels did dip quite abit, but I found I was very touched out having 3 small children under 4.

I’m going to preface this by saying he’s a really good dad, he’s a good provider for our family and he is an all round good guy!

But last September I got a message from a guy, telling me my partner was messaging his wife, and that he had deleted/blocked his number fb etc and that I didn’t have to worry as he wouldn’t be able to contact her again but that he was going to speak to his wife the next day and just thought that he should make me aware out of courtesy. He sent me a couple of screen shots of the messages that definitely had some sexual context but some was just general chit chat. After alittle concern as to why he would be going through his wife’s phone (worried she may have been unhappy or he was jealous/controlling) it came to light it was a brief chance encounter they used to work together And had text from there. He had see my partners name and saw she was messaging him photos of her in underwear when he questioned her she said she was sending a new bikini photo to her sister. So he was obviously curious. Personally I wouldn’t have had any idea as I wouldn’t look at my partners phone.

I questioned my partner on this knowing most of the information I advised he be completely honest as I already knew, he immediately went on the defensive, almost scoffing at the accusation saying that’s her husband, she disclosed to my partner that she was unhappy in her marriage to him and he was this and that etc… after alittle more “I’ve seen the messages I know it wasn’t just her”, he offered that he messaged her as he felt that they had a mutual understanding as he felt unhappy in our relationship for similar reasons, I was unsupportive and inattentive to him, she wasn’t his type and it just felt good to talk to someone who understood how he felt. I said I could understand how I may have had some responsibility in this, I knew I had pulled back from him in our relationship, and we had talked about how we could improve things.

A week later I found out I was pregnant, complete surprise, I didn’t think I could get pregnant naturally, hadn’t been trying to avoid it but we both knew the situation, and had both been open on how we felt, I had always said if it happened I wouldn’t be upset about it, I had always wanted 4, but was happy with 3. He was a firm no more I’m having a vasectomy (but he didn’t have one despite saying it on a regular basis) he only wanted 2 but was happy with 3.
When I told him he was pretty much “we can’t keep it, we can’t afford it, it will impact on our other children and the life we want for them”. I took everything he said on board and to some extent understood how he felt and tried really hard to come to a compromise but I just could not after everything we have been through to get a baby and there being nothing medical to suggest I end the pregnancy have a termination. I tried really hard to weigh up both sides seeking advice from counsellors, very close friends, my mum. But couldn’t bring myself to terminate, I knew that it would affect my mental health and my children’s lives more than if we just struggled financially for a while etc. He however, I don’t think tried to see it from my point at all, he tried to convince me termination was the only option, he went with the financial angle, the your selfish ruining everyone else’s future angle, the I don’t want any more kids, I won’t love it and feel guilty angle, the it’s affecting my mental health angle, and the worst of all, the we can’t afford it now but if you terminate we can think about it in the future angle, which even in the vulnerable state I was in actively felt like a manipulative comment considering he had already said he didn’t want any more children and if I kept it that he would have to leave. I did accept he was under a lot of stress aswell and this may not have been our finest hour as we had completely different opinions and there would be no perfect choice as someone would ultimately be upset they didnt get their way. We even had a couples councilling session, my partner quickly realised he wasn’t going to get his way and would be inclined to look at my point of view and disengaged.

After a conversation with him I suggested he should have a vasectomy if he didn’t want more children but I wasn’t terminating. He had a vasectomy in November.

I talked him into coming to the 12 week scan beginning of December because I didn’t want him to not have the experience with this child as he did with the others, and his fear that he wouldn’t bond with it or feel guilty when it was here because he didn’t want it. despite some awful comments the night before, “you shouldn’t have another one, you can’t look after the ones you’ve got”. We went in and I knew instantly that it was not a 12 week baby as it should be ( I had a private scan at 6+6 to confirm if it was a single or multiple pregnancy.) and they confirmed that there was no heartbeat, it had stopped growing around 8 weeks. I was heartbroken, I felt like my world had collapsed around me, and I knew I couldn’t look at my partners face for fear I would see relief in his eyes.
I spent a week waiting for a surgical d&c under GA, and was the lowest I’d ever felt, id wake up forgetting I wasn’t pregnant and relive the pain. The night before the d&c I had caught out of the corner of my eye that he was looking at photos of a woman on his WhatsApp, it wasn’t the same woman from the September but i didn’t see a name I hadn’t raised it at the time as our little boy was in the middle of us and we were getting ready for bed, plus mentally I wasn’t in the right place to have an argument about it.
i then had to go back for a scan as my hcg was still elevated 3 weeks later(positive pregnancy test) i was told from the first d&c histology showed i had a partial molar pregnancy and that it would never have been a viable pregnancy, but there was tissue remaining and that i had to have it removed and be followed up due to risk it could turn cancerous, i had an evacuation under local, in jan and had to return for another 10 days later because they couldn’t get it all. A few days after I ended up in a&e because I had heavy bleeding and admitted overnight for fluids and medication to stop the bleeding. Finally in March I got the clear it was all gone it wasn’t cancerous!
Following the 1st my partner was semi supportive he took care of the kids and the house around what I could manage, but he seemed normal he acted like nothing had happened, like all the conversations we had hadn’t happened. Helen was physically supportive but emotionally he was not what I needed. But he started a fight with me before the 2nd evacuation and I called him out about the photos I had seen, he completely stonewalled me, saying he didn’t know what I was talking about and could only think that it was a photo from a stag do group he was in that I had seen. I let it go because I still wasn’t in a good place. But after some counselling following the miscarriage i felt like we needed to have a proper discussion I tried but felt like he didn’t want to talk about it and any time I raised something about him or his behaviour he just turned it around to something I had done that upset him. After this was the a&e visit in feb, and I’ve basically ignored it and tried to concentrate on getting my mental health back to normal, it’s been such a confusing 7/8 months and I’m at a point where I felt like the person he was during that time wasn’t the person I knew and it’s tainted the way I feel about him. I did feel like things were getting better until we went on a weekend away with the kids and he had his phone set up in the car, he was messaging a friend on fb about football(still on the drive not yet driving), (I was in the back seat so had a front row seat to his screen) when he backed out of that message there was an unread message from a ‘Chloe’ didn’t see the surname, and I wouldn’t have thought much more about it as he has lots of friends male and female he’s very social, but it was the way he clicked off and his eyes locked on the rear view mirror to see my reaction and if I had seen it, there was genuine panic in his eyes.

And now I’m here, 3 beautiful children, a lovely job and house, from the outside a ‘perfect life’ but with a man that I think Im no longer in love with, and whom I think looking back has probably never been faithful- I’ve had lots of gut instinct moments that he was cheating, but no evidence, back then I was smitten with him. Now his attitude to me during the pregnancy has made me lose the rose coloured glasses and I can’t go back.
My problem is, I can’t afford to stay without him and I don’t want to uproot my children’s childhood.

Do I need to tell him how I feel, wait it out or just leave?

I really want to have a discussion with him and be honest about how I feel but I know how he is and I just know it won’t go the way I hope.

OP posts:
BePinkPombear · 21/05/2024 08:43

Hello Op
Sorry to see you wrote your story but for whatever reason there have been no responses
first of all I am sorry to hear about your miscarriage, my condolences for your loss

I am also sorry to hear you are having such a difficult time with your partner
I know other people would scoff at your remarks at the start that he is a good guy/good dad as someone that is that good would not be behaving the way he is
but as someone who has reconciled after an affair (also not married) I KNOW that someone can be good and also bad. One didn’t negate the other in my case and it was worth staying for me. I don’t have rose tinted glasses on anymore but what I do have is an honesty and reality that is true to me and my partner.

Everything sounds very fraught and confusing for you at the moment, and I am not sure which way you should turn. You also don’t have to decide right now but I think by posting here on MN you feel you are a crossroads

There is no shame in staying because of your lifestyle or for your DC. It’s hard out there with cost of living. There might be some help available to you but even so you may decide that you don’t want to financially struggle and that is okay. No one knows how they will act in this situation until they are in it.

sounds like in arguments/discussion his outward response to be challenged is to go into a blind panic and divert/distract. I must admit I do this, it’s not one of my finer traits and I have to actively try to not do it. I hate people seeing flaws in me. I wonder if that is why your partner does it, because he knows you’re seeing his flaws (inappropriate dealings with women)
he is probably at some level realising that the walls around his bad behaviours are coming down and that is making him defensive. That is really common I think people double down. They get scared, it’s very human even if it’s not nice to be on the other side.

I do think the way he’s responded to your baby news and subsequent loss was nasty and selfish but I have also heard friends having similar conversations about the financial/practical impact of having another child. If he is acting inappropriately he will also have clouded judgement too. People in cheating cycles do and say really insane stuff sometimes, kind of like how addicts can behave very strangely.

if I was you, I wouldn’t just leave because of the various complicating factors. You probably can’t just wait it out because I think it will drive you mad
having a conversation with him might descend into an argument as you have seen before but it doesn’t sound like he would hurt you but maybe have a trusted person you can go and take the kids to if he does blow up.
If reconciliation is on the cards, if YOU want to try - to begin this you need to know at least the rough outline of what has happened. I don’t know everything that my partner did and to be honest I don’t want to know but I knew broad enough strokes to begin working on reconciliation with him

There are a couple of message boards geared to reconciliation if it is the avenue you end up going down

best wishes to you OP x

Littlestminnow · 21/05/2024 08:57

I’m going to preface this by saying he’s a really good dad, he’s a good provider for our family and he is an all round good guy!

No he's not. He's a devious, deceitful, selfish man. Why are you gaslighting yourself over this?

BeBopBeBop · 21/05/2024 08:59

Also just saw this, and sorry it went unanswered - to have written that out and got no response must have been difficult.
Honestly, I think it's likely over; once the rose-tinted glasses go, they are hard to get back.
But actually, in the short term, your focus has to be on you. You've had an incredibly challenging period of time. Focus on your strength, mentally and physically. Maybe give yourself a period of x number of months before you'll address this, like 3 or 4; get through the summer and find the time to draw breath. It's incredibly hard to do, but I think you need some stability to move forward.
However, if you decide to leave, then your kids are young, and their lives can change. To be honest, it's sometimes easier to change kids' lives when they are younger. So, if you are going to go down that route, start to think about where you want to be in a few years. What does that look like to you?

Scorbet · 21/05/2024 09:21

If neither of you love each other then just leave.

No need for any drama/acrimony at all, as you're both in the same page, it should be easy. You have a lovely house so there's money there. The eldest is 4 - their life is not going to be ruined by your downsizing. This is the ideal time.

Freeme31 · 21/05/2024 15:39

I think once those rose tinted glasses come off - there is really no going back unless he is willing to put in 100% effort but if i were you id do the break now while your children are you or look forward to years of regret and being resentful- tbh thats no life

FFSNorman · 21/05/2024 15:43

Just leave. He’s shown you who he is, believe him.

Fargo79 · 21/05/2024 15:52

I certainly wouldn't judge someone for considering finances when deciding whether or not to stay. You do have to be practical and weigh up the reality for your children of their circumstances in that situation. However, you also need to be very, very honest with yourself about the likely outcome of living with a man who is going to continue to cheat on you and lie to you and who you know cannot be relied upon to support you in your darkest hour. Do not underestimate the way that this can erode a person's self esteem over time and think carefully about the impact that would have on your children. I don't think it's ever as simple as just "emotionally distanced yourself a bit and crack on".

BePinkPombear · 21/05/2024 18:28

Fargo79 · 21/05/2024 15:52

I certainly wouldn't judge someone for considering finances when deciding whether or not to stay. You do have to be practical and weigh up the reality for your children of their circumstances in that situation. However, you also need to be very, very honest with yourself about the likely outcome of living with a man who is going to continue to cheat on you and lie to you and who you know cannot be relied upon to support you in your darkest hour. Do not underestimate the way that this can erode a person's self esteem over time and think carefully about the impact that would have on your children. I don't think it's ever as simple as just "emotionally distanced yourself a bit and crack on".

I think that if OP is going to stay, emotionally distancing isn’t likely to work, for what you state. I really hope OP can have an honest conversation that leads to many more
People truly can change their outlook and actions, but they often need some sort of big event to do so
understanding the enormity of his actions would be a great state as right now he has had no consequences.
I don’t equate consequences with punishment. I never rained those down on my partner, but he did end up understanding what was at stake and that was the kick up the arse he needed

Wasityoubecayse · 21/05/2024 19:12

Ask him if he loves you
Ask him if he would be comfortable in an open relationship is
If he is relived make up but demand marriage.
Premarital cohabitation is considered in divorce.
Get therapy find something to fight for
that's alive and fight.

Lost34 · 23/05/2024 12:25

BePinkPombear · 21/05/2024 08:43

Hello Op
Sorry to see you wrote your story but for whatever reason there have been no responses
first of all I am sorry to hear about your miscarriage, my condolences for your loss

I am also sorry to hear you are having such a difficult time with your partner
I know other people would scoff at your remarks at the start that he is a good guy/good dad as someone that is that good would not be behaving the way he is
but as someone who has reconciled after an affair (also not married) I KNOW that someone can be good and also bad. One didn’t negate the other in my case and it was worth staying for me. I don’t have rose tinted glasses on anymore but what I do have is an honesty and reality that is true to me and my partner.

Everything sounds very fraught and confusing for you at the moment, and I am not sure which way you should turn. You also don’t have to decide right now but I think by posting here on MN you feel you are a crossroads

There is no shame in staying because of your lifestyle or for your DC. It’s hard out there with cost of living. There might be some help available to you but even so you may decide that you don’t want to financially struggle and that is okay. No one knows how they will act in this situation until they are in it.

sounds like in arguments/discussion his outward response to be challenged is to go into a blind panic and divert/distract. I must admit I do this, it’s not one of my finer traits and I have to actively try to not do it. I hate people seeing flaws in me. I wonder if that is why your partner does it, because he knows you’re seeing his flaws (inappropriate dealings with women)
he is probably at some level realising that the walls around his bad behaviours are coming down and that is making him defensive. That is really common I think people double down. They get scared, it’s very human even if it’s not nice to be on the other side.

I do think the way he’s responded to your baby news and subsequent loss was nasty and selfish but I have also heard friends having similar conversations about the financial/practical impact of having another child. If he is acting inappropriately he will also have clouded judgement too. People in cheating cycles do and say really insane stuff sometimes, kind of like how addicts can behave very strangely.

if I was you, I wouldn’t just leave because of the various complicating factors. You probably can’t just wait it out because I think it will drive you mad
having a conversation with him might descend into an argument as you have seen before but it doesn’t sound like he would hurt you but maybe have a trusted person you can go and take the kids to if he does blow up.
If reconciliation is on the cards, if YOU want to try - to begin this you need to know at least the rough outline of what has happened. I don’t know everything that my partner did and to be honest I don’t want to know but I knew broad enough strokes to begin working on reconciliation with him

There are a couple of message boards geared to reconciliation if it is the avenue you end up going down

best wishes to you OP x

Hi Bepink,

thank you for your reply it’s been really helpful.

I do agree that his reaction to deflect is probably the same as you, he doesn’t like to hear criticism about himself. You say you have to actively try not to do this, how would you suggest i approach these things without sounding critical?

I do think the main thing for me is his reaction to the pregnancy and the way he treated me when I didn’t agree with him and that he wasn’t going to get his way, we would normally be able to come to a compromise that suits us both but obviously this situation there wasn’t a compromise it was one or the other. At the time I felt very much like it was an accident and we were both at fault for it happening but by him asking me to have a termination it was me taking on all the responsibility for it, where as having the baby was a joint responsibility. My problem was did he go hard on my not having it because he was worried about the finances or was it because he told someone we were having troubles and were no longer intimate and that’s why my having the baby wasn’t acceptable because he would have been completely called out on a lie to this other person if I got pregnant.

I think I do need to have a conversation with him, I agree like with your relationship, I know he has done things that are wrong but he needs to acknowledge there’s a consequence to his actions and realise that what he’s doing is hurting me and potentially our family. He often says “I can see I’m not needed or wanted” and it really gets me back up, as honestly I don’t need him, but I do want him in my life and I’ve actively been choosing to keep him in my life for these 17 years.

I guess at the end of the day I need to choose my words carefully, essentially give him an ultimatum and let him decide the outcome.

OP posts:
Lost34 · 23/05/2024 12:34

Littlestminnow · 21/05/2024 08:57

I’m going to preface this by saying he’s a really good dad, he’s a good provider for our family and he is an all round good guy!

No he's not. He's a devious, deceitful, selfish man. Why are you gaslighting yourself over this?

I don’t think I am gaslighting myself, I’m not denying that he has had those traits, I agree. But none of us are perfect and part of a relationship is trying to understand what and why someone has acted that way. I can see where I may have influenced his decisions. But this is why I’m here asking for advice as I’m at a crossroads, do I give up everything weve invested and disrupt our children’s lives or choose to ask him to change and make him accountable. Because he also has lots of positive traits, like the ones i said, and aside from this one instance which is partly why it hurt so much is he always goes to bat for me and will defend my corner and that’s shows loyalty even if his cheating doesn’t. Plus I don’t have any evidence he’s actually been physical with anyone else but talking to other women. We are still intimate and he instigates most of the time.

OP posts:
Lost34 · 23/05/2024 12:41

BeBopBeBop · 21/05/2024 08:59

Also just saw this, and sorry it went unanswered - to have written that out and got no response must have been difficult.
Honestly, I think it's likely over; once the rose-tinted glasses go, they are hard to get back.
But actually, in the short term, your focus has to be on you. You've had an incredibly challenging period of time. Focus on your strength, mentally and physically. Maybe give yourself a period of x number of months before you'll address this, like 3 or 4; get through the summer and find the time to draw breath. It's incredibly hard to do, but I think you need some stability to move forward.
However, if you decide to leave, then your kids are young, and their lives can change. To be honest, it's sometimes easier to change kids' lives when they are younger. So, if you are going to go down that route, start to think about where you want to be in a few years. What does that look like to you?

Thank you, I’m sure it’s probably because it was an extremely long post and people got bored lol.

I think I have taken a couple of months and this is where I am now, it’s difficult because we have periods of things being ok, and I don’t want to disrupt that but at the same time when we’re struggling I can’t articulate myself well in discussions and it becomes an argument. I just need to make a put and say it I think and let the cards fall where they may. I’m hoping that if he is honest with me and makes a change we can move forward without the rose tinted glasses and our relationship could be better as I won’t be as naive about him in the future. But I think I know that if that isn’t the case I do need to look at a future without him which is hard

OP posts:
Lost34 · 23/05/2024 12:48

Scorbet · 21/05/2024 09:21

If neither of you love each other then just leave.

No need for any drama/acrimony at all, as you're both in the same page, it should be easy. You have a lovely house so there's money there. The eldest is 4 - their life is not going to be ruined by your downsizing. This is the ideal time.

I didn’t say I didn’t love him, he’s the father of my children and we’ve grown up together, been been through some wonderful and some really tough things together, I said I don’t think I’m in love with him anymore. I did ask him if he wanted to be with me when I asked him about the woman he was messaging and he did say ‘you know I love you to bits’ which I felt didn’t really answer my question at the time but felt very much how I feel, that he does love me by but he’s not in love with me. I think you can get that back. But I think he would need to earn my respect back to do that.

I don’t think there would be any drama in which ever way we decide to go to be honest. But I think today everything seems so throw away there’s more out there. But it doesn’t mean what’s broken can’t be fixed

OP posts:
Lost34 · 23/05/2024 12:56

Freeme31 · 21/05/2024 15:39

I think once those rose tinted glasses come off - there is really no going back unless he is willing to put in 100% effort but if i were you id do the break now while your children are you or look forward to years of regret and being resentful- tbh thats no life

Thank you, I agree it will be hard and I think if we did choose to try and make a go of it, there would be a short grace period, i wouldn’t waste my time if I felt he wasn’t putting the effort in. I agree it is no life and part of my worry is my daughter growing up seeing his actions, me letting them slide and her thinking that’s acceptable. I also don’t want my boys to think it’s ok to treat women that way, and my partner does back me up when I ask my children to do something and they don’t listen. Even if we don’t always agree with the others actions at the time, we do show a united front and discuss later.

OP posts:
Lost34 · 23/05/2024 13:05

Fargo79 · 21/05/2024 15:52

I certainly wouldn't judge someone for considering finances when deciding whether or not to stay. You do have to be practical and weigh up the reality for your children of their circumstances in that situation. However, you also need to be very, very honest with yourself about the likely outcome of living with a man who is going to continue to cheat on you and lie to you and who you know cannot be relied upon to support you in your darkest hour. Do not underestimate the way that this can erode a person's self esteem over time and think carefully about the impact that would have on your children. I don't think it's ever as simple as just "emotionally distanced yourself a bit and crack on".

Thank you Fargo, I think finance is part of every day life and he obviously feels strongly about us being able to do things as a family, it would impact that massively if we separated, so I think we would both consider this highly as a reason to stay. But yes I agree long term it’s about happiness aswell and that is part of my worry that maybe if it has run its course that we are just wasting each others time we could both be happy else where. It’s difficult to accept you’re no longer good for someone you love. And we definitely have gone into the resentful side of things where we could actively choose to be kinder and look at why the others actions are the way they are. Which is what I’ve been trying to do. Am I still just upset he didn’t give me the choice about the termination and can’t see his reasons. Or have I looked at why he acted that way and considered he too may have been going through emotions that he wasn’t able to control very well.

No I agree You can’t emotionally distance yourself from one person without it impacting on others ie my children will feel something has changed

OP posts:
Lost34 · 23/05/2024 13:11

Wasityoubecayse · 21/05/2024 19:12

Ask him if he loves you
Ask him if he would be comfortable in an open relationship is
If he is relived make up but demand marriage.
Premarital cohabitation is considered in divorce.
Get therapy find something to fight for
that's alive and fight.

I don’t think rushing into marriage would be wise after this, but I think some of those things are what I’ll be asking. We are both on the mortgage for our home and I know he would never leave his children without, I think he would do his best to find somewhere else and hope he could support me to stay in our home without having to sell. I would just find it hard relying on him to do this, and would and to try and remain financially independent of him.

OP posts:
Wasityoubecayse · 23/05/2024 17:18

Marriage Is what you want it's not pressure or manipulation you simply want to get married. If he does not you have one side of your answer the other side how much does marriage mean to you. You understand the position your in so working to strengthen your independence is maybe the best thing to do first. I think you need to first build your own foundation. Marriage then becomes an option not a finacial need. If you need to marry to stabilise your position it won't work after kids as well.. I hope you find happiness and strength

Inthedeep · 23/05/2024 23:05

I’m so sorry for your loss, I couldn’t read and run. You’ve been through so much and how he treated you was not okay. You need to confront him, if you do decide to stay together I really think you are going to need counselling or some other outside help to try and help rebuild your relationship. It can’t just get swept under the carpet, he has to be prepared to put the work in to rebuild your relationship. He has to earn back your trust and your love.

BePinkPombear · 25/05/2024 22:48

Lost34 · 23/05/2024 12:25

Hi Bepink,

thank you for your reply it’s been really helpful.

I do agree that his reaction to deflect is probably the same as you, he doesn’t like to hear criticism about himself. You say you have to actively try not to do this, how would you suggest i approach these things without sounding critical?

I do think the main thing for me is his reaction to the pregnancy and the way he treated me when I didn’t agree with him and that he wasn’t going to get his way, we would normally be able to come to a compromise that suits us both but obviously this situation there wasn’t a compromise it was one or the other. At the time I felt very much like it was an accident and we were both at fault for it happening but by him asking me to have a termination it was me taking on all the responsibility for it, where as having the baby was a joint responsibility. My problem was did he go hard on my not having it because he was worried about the finances or was it because he told someone we were having troubles and were no longer intimate and that’s why my having the baby wasn’t acceptable because he would have been completely called out on a lie to this other person if I got pregnant.

I think I do need to have a conversation with him, I agree like with your relationship, I know he has done things that are wrong but he needs to acknowledge there’s a consequence to his actions and realise that what he’s doing is hurting me and potentially our family. He often says “I can see I’m not needed or wanted” and it really gets me back up, as honestly I don’t need him, but I do want him in my life and I’ve actively been choosing to keep him in my life for these 17 years.

I guess at the end of the day I need to choose my words carefully, essentially give him an ultimatum and let him decide the outcome.

Hi Lost
im glad the reply was helpful in your circumstances

I’ll be honest I’m still learning not to be defensive in conflict and I also think as a the betrayed partner I have had a bit of a free pass not to grow that part of myself yet. Been focusing on reconciliation etc. It is really hard

I do find that in conflict with anyone I respond better to ‘I’ type statements. I have touched upon this in individual counselling , a fact sheet is here

https://www.bumc.bu.edu/facdev-medicine/files/2011/08/I-messages-handout.pdf

it might not work the first few times but I do think it’s a good model to start with.

i can understand why you’re so infuriated when he says ‘oh I can see I’m not wanted’
I have used these exact words before in an argument. Again, not the same situation, but I’ve said it because I want sympathy and to be back at the centre of that person’s world rather than them having what I perceive to be a go at me.

its great that you know you want him in your life in one way because that’s an active feeling you can harness, rather than thinking solely in practicalities

I expect You’re right that you may have to issue an ultimatum

there were some infidelity forums I didn’t like aspects of but I do remember one saying ‘don’t issue ultimatums set boundaries instead’ but I always struggled with that one because some of my boundaries were moveable! So you might set a boundary, and if he says no, is it something you’ll budge on?

For example one hard boundary I wouldn’t budge on was that I had access to his phone any time I wanted it. I don’t do it now but I needed it at the start.
the boundary I budged on was that his best friend mate knew about the affair (it was over by the time it came to light). I initially wanted no contact between them, but after I calmed down and healed a bit, i got an apology from him and also he didn’t exactly support the affair but equally didn’t tell me because he didn’t want to see me get hurt.

what I’m trying to say is you need to have an idea of what is fixed in your mind and what you’re willing to compromise on

hopefully you’ve had some time to get your head around some of this x

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