Do I have a toxic mother?

[baltimore97]

Haven't posted on here much, but my mum really got to me today and think I'd appreciate some feedback on the situation. By the way, I realize that even if her behaviour is as bad as I feel it is, there are many on here who've had it much worse!

I have one DD and second is due in a couple of weeks, mum is staying for a week and helping out with DD as I'm feeling pretty worn out. I've never had that great a relationship with my mum, but DD (almost 2) adores her and she is a very good granny.

This morning - I don't know how - we ended up having this conversation that ended in her telling me a number of things about myself

1. I was " bitch" when I was a teenager (and maybe still am?)
2. I am unbdoubtedly going to damage my children by my choice to be a working mum. (Although I will have taken the full 12mths maternity leave after each child and DD1 has only ever been with the childminder 3 days a week max)
3. I am very selfish.

It was especially the last comment that got to me - I am selfish (apparently) because I am planning to introduce a bottle with the new baby, even though I will breastfeed, as I would occasionally like a night off/out. I am also selfish because I will be going away for three nights when DC2 is 5 months old. The pregnancy was unplanned (but not unwelcome at all) so I had already accepted an invitation to talk at a conference which will be of huge benefit to my career in the long term. I do not have the kind of job that allows me to give up work totally, as there is little chance I will ever be able to get a job in the field again as it is very specialist. I am also selfish because I am unable to put the needs of my children above my own (to get some intellectual stimulation from work, to go out once or twice) for 100% of the time.

Following this last comment, my mother then said that perhaps she should blame herself for my being so selfish and self-centered, as she ALWAYS put me and my brother first....

Sorry for the rant, but am just wondering if anyone has found themselves having a similar conversation with their mother. Did you just put up and shut up?

I'd be suprised if 90% of women havent found themself in a similiar conversation at one time or another with their mum tbh. Do you think there is resentment from your mum that she did put you first and maybe didnt have the choices you have (to go to work etc) ?

I'm buying a business at the minute although we dont need a second income I am doing it because I need an outlet for myself and to look back on my life not as a big void everyday between 9 and 3.30pm but as a life lived.

My mum has raised concerns about who will pick dd up from school etc when I am at working (un-neccessarily in her view) even about me leaving the dog at home (!) but I have had to gently but firmly remind her that these are my issued to organise and dont concern her.

I dont think its toxic I think its envy tbh.

yup, she sounds pretty toxic! All teenagers are bitches, surely, and unless you burnt her house down/attempted to murder her I doubt she has much to complain about. And the bottle/work judgements are none of her bloody business.

You probably don't have the energy to fight back at the moment, plus you don't need it. Can you get shot of her and get someone else to help who actually has your interests at heart?

I disagree, I dont think she's toxic.

Your mother is talking out of her backside.

As long as your baby is growing on bm and the odd bottle, and you find excellent childcare, you go and have a life yourself!

Your mother is jealous that she didn't have the same opportunitues.

also, I imagine if she thought you were a bitch as a teenager you probably felt the same way about her at the time - as teenage blossoming daughters tend to coincide with pre/menopausal mums, nobody is in a good head space once those hormones start raging!!

Without other info from you I'm with those who say it sounds as if your mother resents the opportunities you have had and how you organise them around your family.

Jealousy not toxicity.

its for that very reason that I am buying my business now, so that when dd has her family, I am kept myself busy and dont feel like I gave up life over to waiting for her to come home from school every day until she goes to uni or whatever.

I think you have to bite your tongue and instead of saying what you really want to say, politely and assertively affirm that these are your children and your choices to make.

My mother throws the word selfish at me too. It is an incendiary accusation, and very hard to stay calm or cheerful when faced with it.
THe only thing that helped was that one time, when when my mother was talking about how selfless and strong she'd been when I was a baby, her younger sister laughed and pointed out all the times she'd ben a prima donna. I just try to recall that at tough times.

It doesn't sound like she's mean or evil, so the only thing you can do really is train yourself to not be affected by what she says. It's all guff.

Intergenerational arguments between women are impossible to avoid and cause constant upset.

Baltimore - I know you're stressed and cross and your mother was being unkind in saying what she thinks. But whatever you say or feel she'll still think it!

Your mother made one decision (or had it made for her by society) about her working life and family life.

You have made a different choice and she prob feels this undermines and negates her choices - I expect you have been parented in the best way she could - but you have chosen a different path and no doubt she feels at some level she herself has been rejected.

The day may come when your children reject your working/family choices and you may then understand how she feels - but hopefully won't be so unkind as to voice them!

I mean what would we working mothers do if our children announced they were never going to work once they had a family because it wasn't good for the children? Blush with feminist rage? Get on a soapbox? Feel guilty?

I don't think you should put up with her comments - I'd be inclined to point out that although you are making different choices you don't have to agree with her that they are bad choices - and ask her to keep her hurtful opinions to herself!

In fact, when I think about it on one or two occasions when my own mother has come out with guff like this, I actually ask her in a very matter offact way, "What's the matter? Are you jealous of me?" It tends to stop her in her tracks and once she actually admitted to me that yes, she was.

No I don't think she is toxic, just set in her ways and probably a little jealous/bitter that in her day they didn't have as much choice as we do now about working etc. It's a pity that people don't come with a ignore or mute button . You say you don't have a great relationship with her but hey you like each other well enough that she has come to help you when you are worn out so whilst not saying you should put up and shut up but maybe just breathe, count to 10, turn around and smile at your mother, thank her for her advice and then continue to do your own thing.

Going just on this conversation I'd say not toxic but jealous.

Here's how the psychology works imo

Your mum made herself feel better about her lack of opportunities (and maybe social life) when her children were young by constantly telling herself that she was selfless and putting her children first. This becomes very important - self-image is based on her supposed lack of selfishness.

Therefore any woman who makes a different decision must be selfish. It is total self-justification.

I'm afraid a lot of women (esp older generations) have a touch of the martyr. It makes them uncomfortable to think that they could have had more of a life, and now the chance has gone.

I think it's very immature and selfish of her to dish this now when she is meant to be helping you...

thank you all for putting it in perspective for me. I think some of my anger and upsetness might come from being a little hormonal at present, perhaps?!

In retrospect toxic was rather a strong word to use.

I think she could be a bit jealous - although I'm not sure that is the whole root cause of her comments. She was a teacher before she had me, and then when my brother was old enough she went back to teaching, so it is not as though she never had any career at all. I don't think she was especially ambitious either.

But it is comforting to hear that such comments are common. I don't think asking her if she's jealous, Franke, will do any good. She will get all defensive and maintain that I shouldn't say such horrible things as she is "too nice" to defend herself (she has said this before).

there's also an argument to say that mums of past generations feel they made a sacrifice to their children so that their children could be enabled to be in the position now to have these choices and so their daughters should be grateful and revere their way of doing things IYSWIM. So on the one hand they are pleased for you and on the other hand, it hurts a bit and they need to express that.

I'mn sure there arent many of us who swore they would NEVER say things that their mum used to - and have already found themselves saying it almost automatically to their own children. I think this is ones of those occasions. Your mum probably swore she would never say this kind of stuff to her dd either?

You are all so right about the martyr complex - I was having a discussion with friends only the other day about this shared characteristic of our mothers.

I actually responded to my mum's comments by pointing out that I thought that I was not "selfish" as such, but that our disagreement was based on the fact we are from different generations and therefore viewed the whole thing differently. Needless to say, she disagreed and repeated her opinion that I was just plain selfish.

she sounds JUST like my mother, who says I can always win on logic because I know how to 'manipulate' words. It really is better to ignore than get drawn in.

Um I think that all that can be garnered about your mother here is that she is very defensive about her choices in life and she is finding that the only way to justify her choices are to completely belittle yours.

Her argument is also irrational - she is effectively saying that if she had not been so selfless (ie if she had had a career) you might have turned out better - so she is simultaneously pro and anti working with children. Work that out!!

Mothers - grrr. I can't believe I am one sometimes!

I feel a bit more critical and I think that you might be better going on how you feel after a conversation with her, empowered, cheerful, full of the joys if life or self questioning, worried, unsure....

Seriously, some mothers can be bad for the self esteem even though outsiders think they are normal. And I am a mother too! What matters is how you are reacting to her. Another human being might brush it all off or not even notice, but you are you, not some teflon human.

Spend a lot more time and emotions with people who you know in your heart of hearts are a plus in your life.

You are about to have another beautiful baby, it's a time for you to be cherished. Are you able to have a rant with a midwife??

I wouldn't say she is toxic, necessarily,but she is being critical when you really need her to be supportive.
Your job is very important. Something like 80% of depression in women stems from having no paid employment outside the home. It isn't more important than your children, obviously, I'm just saying you musn't sacrifice your life for theirs, or you will be unhappy. And let's face it, at 5mths your dc is going to have NO CLUE you were missing for a few days.
Selfish is a word that gets everybody's goat. I doubt there are very few mums who truly fit that bill, because the nature of the job is to give. If you allow yourself some priveleges too, good for you. I wish I had.

In fact, if I had been more selfish, I think I would have resented my xh and my children a lot less, and that could only have been GOOD for our relationships.