Supporting friends who are in toxic relationships

[FriendsBadBoyfriend]

NC for this one. Apologies if it's fairly long, but I just needed somewhere to get this off my chest.

Has anyone have any experience of supporting friends who are in bad relationships, or any suggestions of what I should do regarding this situation in particular?

The backstory is that I have a very close friend who I've known many years. She's in her early 30s, and for around the past 18 months, she's been dating her current partner - she got with him pretty soon after the breakup of her long term relationship. To start with, they seemed to hit it off very well, and she was the happiest I'd seen her in a long time.

However, as the relationships has developed, I've increasingly felt like it's a pretty toxic one. I'm not joking, but my friend and her partner have come close to splitting up, or have briefly split up, on around five separate occasions since the start of 2023.

The two most recent occurrences were just before Christmas, and then again a couple of weeks ago. On both occasions, she's texted me, extremely upset, and I've gone over to her house and spent considerable time giving her emotional support. I'd describe my friend as being quite vulnerable - she was diagnosed with autism in her 20s, and has struggled with her mental health (eating disorder/self-harm) in the past too. She's someone who struggles with being on her own. So, naturally, I worry when she gets so upset.

But, as you can probably guess, each time, they still end up getting back together. Sometimes it's as quick as 24/48 hours. This most recent time was just over a week. Initially, she was adamant that he'd gone for good, but after just a few days, they started messaging again, then phone calls, then met up for a coffee, and now they're back together yet again.

I feel pretty exasperated by the whole thing. I've tried explaining to her that she deserves better than this. On pretty much every occasion, it's usually him saying he wants to leave. I've said that if he genuinely loved her, he wouldn't treat her like that and she shouldn't keep taking him back. I've said that having this many issues in a relationship still this relatively new isn't the sign of a healthy one. She always says she knows, but seemingly doesn't listen, and still ends up back with him.

I want to be a supportive friend obviously, but the next time this happens (probably in another 4-6 months or so), I almost feel like not bothering to make the effort, because I'll just be wasting my time and she won't listen to anything I say anyway.

Please help me, what would you do in this situation?

It must be very frustrating seeing your good friend make what seem like such bad choices, based on what you know/have been told. Can you dial back on the rushing over/ spending lengthy time with her? Explain that you're always there for her if she wants to go out for coffee/drinks/dancing...whatever...and don't want her to feel lonely when she's down BUT the conversation can no longer revolve around the problems in her relationship/current split? Because nothing seems to change and they keep making the same mistakes/choices, so there seems little point discussing the sane scenarios over and over again??

It's not a bad thing to reflect on how you've been reacting to this situation and asking yourself if it's worth the hassle.

But here's the thing. If this relationship is toxic - and maybe a bit abusive - then your friend is at risk of losing her entire support network in the near future. For the exact same reason as you're taking a step back. People are disengaging, not believing her anymore when she says she'll leave, giving her good advice that ends up being ignored. It's frustrating to be her friend right now.

And what that means is, in the future, she's even less likely to stand up for herself and leave, because she will have no one turn to and nowhere to go. And exactly this is what makes women like your friend a great potential victim for an abusive partner. Because most times, the really bad abuse won't start until she's completely isolated herself from the people who cared about her.

I get that you need a different approach. But not bothering at all could mean that she'll never actually get out.
Maybe instead of offering her all that good advice, trying to make her see sense, encouraging him to leave him etc (where you are very directive and telling her what to do), maybe just focus more on how she's feeling, and trying to be there for her. Asking her what she wants, what she needs, and how she can take small steps towards those things.
So rather than saying: He wouldn't treat you this way if he loved you. He's an ass and you'd be so much better off without him...
Try saying: What would you want from a relationship that would make you feel loved? And is the relationship you're in right now giving you those things? If he's not making you feel loved right now, is there anything you can do to make yourself feel more loved? Do you need to spend more time with your friends or family, people who make you feel good about yourself?

So basically you're:

• Asking questions rather than giving statements
• Focussing on her own ability to surround herself with the kinds of people she needs in her life - giving her confidence
• Reïnforcing the idea that there are people who will give her what she needs to feel loved, and they are here for her
• Gently showing her that she shouldn't bent over backwards to get someone to be nice to her. It's better to take a step back from people who don't give you what you need

And you'll also not be stuck in this position where you're always telling her what she needs to do, and her ignoring your advice but coming to cry whenever she's going through a difficult time.

Some seriously good advice here from @Hbosh

I agree with a lot of what @Hbosh says. The problem is that the frustration for you is the very thing that potentially makes her more vulnerable to abuse - once he has successfully ensured she has alienated her entire support network, he can ramp up the abuse.

I have been in your situation. Twice in fact. The first was when I was younger and the friend was a flatmate. It almost broke me and it killed our friendship. In retrospect however, I realise that she herself had significant issues and was addicted to the drama. Having learnt a great deal about narcissists subsequently, I suspect she is one and her ex was just a garden variety dickhead so her usual narcissistic control tactics didn't work on him, and she just thrived on the drama and being at the centre of it all.

In the other case, they didn't do the break up/get back together thing which I think made it marginally easier because I didn't have to sit there mopping up her tears because he'd left, only to discover he was back the following week.

But I did have to distance myself a bit. So I was still there, 100%. But I would just calmly repeat some version of, "You know what I think - that behaviour by him is totally unacceptable" etc. Quite often, she would be taking responsibility for the toxic behaviour (a key tactic of abusers of course is to get the victim to take the blame) and I would say, "Yes, you responding/behaving like that in response was not great, but I'm still not going to say that his behaviour was okay."

On plus side, they've broken up. On downside, he's still controlling her remotely and ironically, it's post break up that my relationship with her has really drifted. She thinks I am unkind and don't understand how hard it is for him....

I think in these situations all you can do is to be there to lend and ear and support if wanted, but don’t give advice unless asked.

if you’re in a toxic relationship you need to realise the pattern yourself and decided when the time is right to walk away.

if you give unwanted advice it may ruin your friendship and her outlet if she needs you.

Don’t let it drag you down either, the problem with toxic people is that they drown everyone in the lifeboat with them with their behaviours.

Thank you for your response, and yes, it is very frustrating.

I take on board what you say, and I was deliberately cooler initially this time around. My first response after she told me was to say that I was sorry to hear about it and that I was there for her, but to give it time as chances are he'd probably get back in touch (knowing that was the case around Christmas).

It was only the next day when she said she was struggling that I went over. I suppose, knowing the extend of her MH issues, I'd feel quite guilty if she did something because I'd not been there for her, sort of thing. She was very upset - and had said she was worried about what she might do. When that's the case, it puts you in a tricky position.

But yes, I suppose the danger is it becomes 'the boy (or girl) who cried wolf' scenario - in that each time one of these situations happens, it becomes increasingly hard to be supportive or actually believe that they have split up.

Great post, thank you - you mention some things that I hadn't really considered.

I suppose my approach so far would probably be best described as 'tough love' - I've thought that as close friends, sometimes you have to tell them something they might not want to hear. Often, I just want to shake her and be like 'why do you still want to be with someone who treats you this way?' I just can't understand what other redeeming features he must have that she thinks she has to put up with it.

But yes, maybe this is the wrong approach.

The funny thing is, she is very bright and switched-on. I do believe that if one of our mutual friends was in this situation, she would think very differently about it.

But in her own case, she seems to just be making excuses for him instead. She believes that he has bi-polar disorder, and is 'oblivious' (in her own words) about how it upsets her when he does this sort of thing.

And the other aspect that has worried me slightly has been how in this case, he seems to have gaslit her into believing it was her fault. Apparently the most recent argument that caused the split stemmed from her being drunk (he doesn't drink, he's tee-total), and he claims that she "attacked" him whilst she was drunk. She has no memory of this attack happening.

They're two people who seemingly can't live with each other (or at least, not for very long), but can't live without each other either. It's a mess. I guess all I can do is just to still be there to pick up the pieces when they have these moments, as exhausting and frustrating as it is.

There are 2 sides to every story - my ex wife and I were toxic together, she put the blame mainly on me and called me all sorts of names but if you ask her friends I was controlling, narcissist etc. because she either said things out of context or gave a very 1 sided view. Yet have now just come out of a 9 month relationship where we are the best of friends.

So not doubting your friend but there are reasons behind behaviours and it's not always as clear as it looks. The drunk attack thing could be an example of that or be made up - you dont know.

But as others have said, ask questions, "how does this make you feel" etc.

Its a losing battle.

People have to make their own decisions and its hard to come to that point where thry finally feel they are done. Even if they know they should be.

I also don't want to generalise people with autism but...in my experience they may mimic your words and say all the right things but it's just part of masking, to be socially acceptable. They go home and don't feel that way at all.

My mate had constant issues with his little sister choosing all the wrong men. Even getting involved in drug taking with them. He would have conversation after conversation where she would say the right things...but it was all empty words.

He had to step back in the end, for his own mental health.

Thank you so much for this beautiful post! It says everything that needs to be said.

Absolutely. I have no doubt that my friend, as much as I love her, is probably quite hard work to be in a relationship with, particularly if you don't have much knowledge/understanding of autism. And I've met her partner on a couple of occasions, and he's been perfectly friendly and welcoming on those occasions.

I suppose my frustration comes from their inability to see that this relationship clearly isn't working for either of them. This should still really be the honeymoon stage of a new-ish relationship, and it's unlikely that either of them will change or things will begin to settle down when there has been so many issues in a relatively short space of time.

Absolutely. I have no doubt that my friend, as much as I love her, is probably quite hard work to be in a relationship with, particularly if you don't have much knowledge/understanding of autism. And I've met her partner on a couple of occasions, and he's been perfectly friendly and welcoming on those occasions

This statement actually scares me. Ditto the "two sides" story. Of course, it's true that there ARE two sides to every story. But you yourself have said she IS accepting responsibility and, if anything, is accepting too MUCH responsibility for things going badly. This is what abusive and controlling men do. They make it so that their victim feels responsible and guilty. Often their victim is triggered to behave in what might be considered an unacceptable way and this is then used as a stick to beat them with.

But in her own case, she seems to just be making excuses for him instead. She believes that he has bi-polar disorder, and is 'oblivious' (in her own words) about how it upsets her when he does this sort of thing.

My response to this was always the same, "poor mental health is not an excuse for treating you like shit. If I crashed my car because I was upset about something, it's still my fault and I still have to take responsibility for it."

This is, pretty much word for word ("quite hard work in a relationship" and "there are two sides to every story"), what my in laws all said, repeatedly, about SIL for years and years. And is the reason that she put up with appallingly bad behaviour from exBIL and why she felt so guilty when she cracked and lost her temper. And when that did happen, everyone would sit around shaking their heads and saying, "Ooh, he has such a lot to put up with, doesn't he?"

And it's why now, even after they've broken up, she has allowed him to mess with her financial and mental health - because she thinks that his post-break-up collapse is her fault, rather than seeing it for what it really is: he finally got push back and lost his easy little cushy life and is floundering as a result.

Protect yourself, absolutely. But please, don't fall into this trap because as PP have said - the more people believe SHE is the problem, the harder it will be for her to get out.

It took me two attempts to escape my x and a further 18 moths before I was mentally done (I kept responding to his texts abusing me) so I understand how hard it is to get away.

In your shoes, id only stick in there for a close old friend or a sister/cousin.

Maybe ask her if she will go the therapy to discuss why she puts up with it. I remember be horribly shocked when a friend said "why do you put up with him?". I felt anger in the moment, that she didn't cut me all of the slack because it was hard to leave. Yes it was hard to leave and he was at fault for being so emotionally immature, manipulative, selfish, controlling et cetera, but I wanted (needed) everybody around me to just understand that it was impossible to leave.

So that comment, just one, not an attack, it was helpful.

Other questions that popped into my head that were helpful, "if I could fast forward a year and be on my feet again and all the drama of escaping behind me, would I press play?". For me, the answer was YES which helped me see I was scared of his reaction to my leaving scared of the admin of starting again.

I went through things hypothetically. It was less stressful, but I usually ended up thinking, ok, so I douwnloaded the form, I could provide the information required.
So, although she may not leave, know that she can face the admin of leaving iykwim.

Another question that helped me was the thought that popped into my head while I was running. If I were dying I'd leave him
That helped me understand that I just couldn't visualise myself single as I got older. Hard to believe now that I ever felt so disempowered. I did though. Well after I thought that I could leave "if I were dying" , I realised, I could leave anyway.

I hope yr friend leaves one day, but just having a friend she can be real with will be the balm to her soul X ❤️

I almost feel like not bothering to make the effort

What would this look like? Not bothering to give her advice? Not bothering to see her? Not bothering to speak to her?

There are lots of degrees of 'not bothering'. Currently you are too invested for your own comfort, so there are some things you need to not bother doing any more. But that doesn't mean to not bother with your friend.

It's not your responsibility to ensure that she is respected by everyone in her life, you know.

#@FriendsBadBoyfriend

The highs and lows of toxic relationships dynamics
Like a drug effect not good for you, but highs of this relationship is escapism from some kind of pschological emotionally struggles traumas or and unresolved issues from dysfunctional childhood dynamics upbringing patterns,

"thats the glue the hold i call it" that keeps people in fucked up relationships like this too.

@FriendsBadBoyfriend

Your friend needs to take responsibility for her addiction to toxic relationships by emotionally investing in good therapy sessions for herself,
Making an effort on healing the past orginal trauma unresolved issue of her past whatever psychologically issues that is,

and doing usaul thing,
taking care of herself such as eating well balanced diet etc..

You need to look after yourself @FriendsBadBoyfriend

I suppose just not being so readily available at the drop of a hat to go over/provide support etc - because is there really much point doing that if they're only going to get back together within a couple of days or week or two? Probably not.

Of course I'd provide her with all the support she needed if it was genuinely 100% over and done with, as I have been doing for the past couple of weeks. She was saying that he'd gone for good this time. So then when I found out last night that they were giving it another go, there was a part of me that thought 'why do I bother?'

Why can't you be straight with her? 'We've been in this same position 6 times now, Mildred. It keeps happening, and it's hard for me to keep supporting you when you keep going back and volunteering for more. You know how he treats you, and you know it doesn't change. I can't keep picking you up like this'

What would happen if you said that?

*hoping her name isn't Mildred for a number of reasons

It'd probably cause serious strain to the friendship, if not end it entirely. Whilst I agree with the general sentiment, I do value her friendship and care about her obviously, and I wouldn't want my words to be the cause of further stress or upset.

I do value her friendship

And if she values yours, she'll endeavour to respect your wishes. It might be that she heeds your advice and doesn't go back to him. It might be that she chooses to call someone else for support next time. It might be that she chooses not to talk about her relationship with you too much from now on.

She has various options available to her: if you believe that she cares about you, then you must believe that she'll try to see your point of view, rather than end the friendship. If you don't believe that she cares about you, why are you giving her advice and being friends with her?

It seems that you think she'll end the friendship quite easily... how come, if she's so important to you?

Well I am basically your friend in this situation so maybe my perspective might help? I have tried to leave my abusive partner 5 times in the last year and the longest I have lasted is 3 days. It sounds so pathetic. Whenever I have left I am almost in flight or fight mode to get out while I can. I'll see a friend or family and say I know this is the right thing etc, I'm not going back and it's definitely over this time. I really truly genuinely believe that at that time. And then something happens, either from him or from the voice in my head that tells me I'm wrong, he's not abusive, I'm the problem. And I panic, start worrying about all the practical things he has to hold against me (like telling me I won't get any money from the house, he will keep the dog etc) and it feels far too scary to leave. It's honestly like I have a split personality as one minute I am confidently done and the next I am driving back and grovelling. The sad thing is is that all of my self-esteem is gone and all I can hear is the put downs he has told me and I believe them. I also feel having been controlled that I have this strong desire to please him and going against that is so so hard.

I understand how frustrating it is and why you want to pull away. I don't know what I would do if I was on your side as it seems insane and like nothing you do will ever help. I can't speak to a lot of people IRL about it now as I know they all feel what is the point. But all I'd say is that I still have the things that friends/family have told me in those times in my mind giving me that tiny bit of confidence that maybe I'm not wrong or the problem so I don't think it is a waste, it's helping me get there.

I don't know if my comment is useful at all but she won't be intentionally doing this and she is probably being truthful when she says she knows the relationship is bad and is never going back, but maybe like me she just doesn't know how to get out of the cycle. Particularly when she goes back and it's either twisted to be her fault or everything is perfect for a while. I'd say don't give up, I know it must be very difficult to watch but it will make it harder for her to leave if she feels isolated. I've got a great counsellor who is helping me work through why I keep going back with no pressure so that next time I don't, and I'm not leaving as part of any impulsive decision right now when I feel panicked (even though I've wanted to a few times). Maybe some counselling may help her too.

@candoitwithabrokenheart can you fly away to gran Canaria or somewhere relatively inexpensive and this bit is crucial, leave your phone behind

I can see now that this was a part of how I got free, I had been "allowed" to fly home to see my family. Then my children got chickenpox just before we were due to fly home. My dad (accidentally on purpose) knocked my phone into the pool. So all messages had to go through my dad. I ended up getting about 2 and a half weeks of space from him for the first time in years. It was space for me to believe that I coukd start a new life. The first 48 hours of being without a phone were torture but I adjusted.

Thanks, didn't mean to hijack the thread but great idea. I do already have the holiday idea in mind for it thank you.