Baby Reindeer - stalker relationship

[Notverychatty]

Hello. I signed up just to ask about this.

I just watched this series and the protagonist reminds me a bit of some real life experiences relating to the stalking element, some of which have haunted me for years.

I'd never seen stalking portrayed like this before. Either stalking is put across as a jealous ex, a controlling man or a femme fatale of some sort.

The portrayal in this show was more of a desperate person who was friendly at times and complimentary and then also scary and cruel.

Some years ago we had a "Martha" type of person come into our lives and wreak all manner of destruction. I never really recovered fully and found watching this quite uncomfortable.

There was some similarity to Martha in that she was not a femme fatal, but more of a desperate person. It was psychologically difficult, but even as she terrified you and did horrible things to ruin your life, you felt sort of sorry for her.

I was struck by a few things in this show.

The way Donny seemed to WANT to be stalked and missed it when it stopped, even encouraged it.

The way Donny was so imperfect victim who egged her on and wasn't clear that he wanted her to stop and go away.

The way Donny felt some kind of deep connection to this person because he saw her as broken like he was.

The way Donny felt some kind of link between sexuality and arousal and abuse or things he hated.

I just wanted to talk about this and ask if anyone else had ever experienced this kind of messy and confusing thing before.

I wonder why Donny wanted that, and let it ruin his life. As I've often wondered this about our own lives.

I think I just wanted to hear if any people had ended up with this sort of thing and so on

Sorry if this is rambly

I've just watched this whole series too and found it utterly fascinating.

I don't think this is the 'typical' case of stalking that we often hear about (usually where the man is the stalker). It appeared to be at the start of the series but as I watched the episodes a different story emerged.

Donny clearly encouraged her through a lack of boundaries and poor decisions, thereby giving her mixed messages about the status of their relationship. It wasn't entirely unwanted and unsolicited attention.

But I think, mainly, it effectively showed the huge complications of humans and their relationships and just how very difficult it is to be honest with people and get them out of our lives (either through guilt, 'feeling sorry' for people, or not totally wanting them out of our lives because they serve some purpose that we either can't see or admit to).

Thank you Lightspeeds

I think that might be true "either through guilt, 'feeling sorry' for people, or not totally wanting them out of our lives because they serve some purpose that we either can't see or admit to)"

Which I think is part of the trauma you carry because you know a part of you liked it or got something from it.

He was incredibly brave to make this public

If you look in the TV section there's already at least two busy threads about this series.

Do you realise this was based on a true story. And the actor playing Donny is the writer and to whom it happened?

I had a female who became very problematic to the extent I was terrified of them and it took them moving country to stop the harassment. Absolutely hated the central character 'Donny' and I can't watch Richard Gadd in interviews. I can't explain why, it had a really strange unsettling effect on me and triggered some anger around being raped and drugged in the past. I just couldn't get past how he had continually sought this abuse out with his rapist. It was very uncomfortable and I'm still trying to process it. In saying that I couldn't look away from the screen and binged the lot. Very troubling though. His power dynamic was so weird and when he is shagging Martha it seemed so bloody self hating but also obsessively controlling almost masochistic.

He didn't shag Maratha.

Agree that this was an unsettling drama, I am still thinking about it 10 days after I finished watching it.

I wasn't sure if he actually had sex with Martha or if it was just a fantasy. He admitted to masturbating over her. It was all so messed up.

I took it as that he was so down on himself following his failed career, failed relationship and mostly the horrific abuse (that he also hated himself for because he kept going back) that the positive attention Martha gave him validated him. Made him feel special and worthy. And when she was abusive to him he also felt he deserved that as well.

It was a tough watch and will probably be interpreted differently by many people.

Thank you, yes, I know people have threads in TV which is how I found the forum but they're not talking about the relationship between these two specifically which was what I wanted to ask about.

@PTSDBarbiegirl I similarly had to move country, job etc due to a similar female so it was hard to watch.

@arsey23 thanks that's very insightful. This is what I was wondering about. Being so self destructive and drawn to someone who was clearly dangerous

I thought it was incredibly interesting and harrowing to watch. What I also felt was that writing it and performing it was as much part of the story as anything else. She still dominates his life.

"Either stalking is put across as a jealous ex, a controlling man or a femme fatale of some sort"

But she was also portrayed as obsessively jealous and controlling.

I’ve watched it 3 times now, I’m obsessed with it! He reminds me a lot of my DP which is why I think I’m so invested in understanding it. Having suffered a history of abuse my DP makes some terrible decisions sometimes, but they make sense to him, and I know my involvement with him is something that other people may not understand either.

I’ve certainly put myself in situations where I’ve replayed trauma and I think it’s quite common for people with ptsd etc to replay events in the same or similar ways to process them or somehow learn how to “get it right this time” eg someone who has been physically assaulted who enjoys bdsm style bedroom activities or role playing sexual abuse situations (I was strangled by a previous BF but have occasionally enjoyed role playing that sort of thing with a trusted partner, which feels counterintuitive but human sexuality is a weird thing!)

I think for people who haven’t suffered abuse it can be very difficult to understand and they end up victim blaming, but people are tricky and don’t always act in ways you think they ‘should’.

@marmaladeandpeanutbutter yes I know, but in all the dramatised versions of female stalkers I've seen, the woman is portrayed as a seductress.

Ongoing long discussion here -

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5049202-baby-reindeer-netflix?page=1

@BigPussyEnergy

Thanks for sharing this. In my situation I suppose I was Teri (minus the trans bit), although we ended up married

Yes! I think that is what made it such an uncomfortable viewing for me.

I think it was interesting to see the self destructive spiral. How he explained it as wanting to prove it to himself that it was just a body and whatever happened to the body didn't matter. I think this is actually more common in rape victims than we'd like to think. That they think revisiting past trauma, might loosen the grip of that first trauma in their mind. That they might be able to one day tell themselves it wasn't really a big deal.

There's also an element perhaps of punishing themselves. Because if you're the one in control of the 'punishment', at least you are in a way, in control.

Perhaps the reason he wasn't as resolute as he could be with Martha was part of the cycle of self abuse too.

I think he's got a personality disorder and just as messed up as Martha.

I guess I think there should be a note of caution in taking what he says as being the final truth. I feel he may be quite an unreliable narrator due to his guilt and self blame.

I have had personal experience of sexual assault and of stalking and I found the series very affecting. It took me years not to blame myself for what happened to me. I used to ask myself whether I had brought it on myself through things I did or didn't do. Whether I in some way did want it? I convinced myself I must have done at times.

I think this is the mental struggle he is portraying rather than it being really true that he wanted it. That's how I interpret it anyway.

I would have found it easier if I didn't know it was his real experience. I wish I had just thought he was a genius writer and not known that. After all most writers are speaking from personal experience in some way. I did question why he needs to make that explicit as it seems to have caused a lot of trouble with people trying to find the real stalker but I think it's incredibly brave that he did write it and will help people know they are not alone on their reactions to trauma even if they don't feel or a act the way you are 'supposed to'

The way Donny was so imperfect victim who egged her on and wasn't clear that he wanted her to stop and go away.

It came into focus for me with the episode where the grooming and rape happened - I recognised those self-destructive behaviours, how people get drawn into repeating a cycle, not because they want to, but due to psychological triggers I don't fully understand.

Frustrating to watch from the outside, but like he said, he was more in love with hating himself than he could be with Teri (or anyone). Like being in love with the void.