Marriage: is it being mis-sold?

[OrmIrian]

There have been a few threads recently about infidelity and being the OW. And I have seen the sentiment uttered many times that it's better to end one relationship, before starting a new one. In principle I totally agree.

But that makes the assumption, doesn't it, that there has to be something wrong with a marriage for infidelity to happen. It seems to me that these days, marriage is sold as a romantic ideal, between two people that will remain 'in love' forever, have amazing frequent sex, always want to be together as much as possible, always laugh at each others's jokes and never fart in each other's company . Whereas actually marriage is not really romantic long-term. It's a contract to make two people stick together through all the crap that life throws at us, to bring up children in stability and make a stable economic unit. The in-love thing is great but not essential and probably won't last. Gilt on the gingerbread. If the divorce rates keep on rising, is the problem with marriage, or with our expectations of it?

If that is the case, surely there doesn't have to be anything fundamentally wrong with a marriage, for the prospect of sex with someone else to be an attractive prospect. It doesn't mean that the marriage is on the rocks, it just means that the passion has faded somewhat (as in most cases it does).

Not stating my opinion, just thinking out loud really. Do we mis-sell marriage. Or is monogamy an impossible modern ideal?

We are not animals - we give ourselves a code to live by.

That is why even when we get so angry we do not commit murder (however justified we feel).

We also do not tolerate bullies (surely in animals this is just survival of the fittest).

To justify you can not control what you feel is a cop out imo - that is what sets us apart from the animal kingdom.

effie - " but isn't infidelity one sign of being 'sold' a romantic notion of marriage". That was sort of what I meant. If marriage is supposed to fulfill all your needs for ever, when it doesn't you have the 'right' to look elsewhere. And I agree about the concept of deserts. I think that 'I deserve' something is meaningless nonsense. I might want a big house, a new car and lots of money, doesn't mean I deserve any of it.

I think the animal rgument is fine if you see your life as going along with impulses. Personally, free will is an important concept to me - I have the choice to bahve (or misbehave) as I do and accept the consequences

actually, I think the 'I don;t deserve' argument is even more destructive: ooh, I couldn't do that, I don't have the right background/education/whatever but I will complain about how I can't chnage my circumstances...

(members of my family do this ALL THE TIME and it really really irritates me. Which it shouldn't. But there.)

Would infidelity be so attractive if it were 'allowed'? There are open marriages which i am sure work.

The having sex with someone else is not the problem - it is the dis-repect.

OI - I think you are absolutely right to distinguish two separate states. "In love" is a romantic state; "marriage" a legal contract.

The confusion arises, in my mind, because signing that legal contract in no way guarantees the romantic state in perpetuity. If you want the romantic state to continue, you have to work at it (and avoid farting in each other's presence).

Maybe the overall problem is not accepting responsibility for your own actions - I cheated because of HIS behaviour, I can;t do that because SHE will look down on me etc. etc.

Not lying to yourself can mean trying things you wouldn;t otherwise attempt as well as NOT doing the things you think you shouldn't

(not that I am incapable of lying to myself, but I do try not to with mixed results)

not really trying to justify infidelity - or murder - or anything else that we have decided as humans is wrong in the laws and moral codes we make; i just don't mind admitting that i have animal needs - even though as a human i also suffer guilt and other feelings that animals do not - i know i'm not an animal, but i am descended from them

Not sure marriage is sold to meet all your needs for the rest of your life.

But surely when a problem arises you have made the pact with your partner to try and sort it out.

We cannot forsee all circumstances and changes that may occur but we have publicly agreed share our life with someone and we should honour that and give them the choices too.

I agree happywoman. There was a thread a few weeks back about someone who was boasting at work about his affair. Not caring that his wife might find out..not to mention the humiliation of everyone else knowing. And that to me seemed almost as great an offence as the sex itself.

and that, easterbunny, is where our humanity comes in. That we can control ourselves and do what is morally right because we are intelligent people, who understand that there is more at stake than the fulfilment of our primal urges.

I am also willing to admit to having animal needs. I have entered into a marriage and share all the good and bad bits about me with my h - he can then choose what to do. I respect him to do that - and although in the past he has not me i hope he has learnt (as humans can) and now will in the future.

People have different expectations of marriage too though and this could cover a whole spectrum of happy marriages. An open marriage could be one couple's heaven and another's hell. The problem obviously arises if the two people in the relationship have different expectations ...

For me, personally, monagamy is a dealbreaker and there is no room in my marriage for infidelity. Creates far too much insecurity and instability, particularly for any poor children caught up in it. If you have chosen to commit yourself to one person, commit. Even through the boring/rocky patches. A stable, secure family is soooo worth it.

I think the human difference is that we have animal 'feelings' - we don't need to turn them into actions. That might be bloody difficult - don't misunderstand me on that one, I am not trying to say it is easy.

My dad gave me some advice which infuriated me at the time - take you time in settling down. Forever is long enough, don't go looking for it. I ignored it, of course, and now I wonder what life would have been like.

But I still have a choice. I think I'd have left my partner if it weren't for dd - I am not "staying for her" - she gave me the motivation to work things out.

hecate - of course you are right about our humanity - but some of us are weaker and social mores go out of the window when our minds are deeply affected - that's also being human

OrmIran, great question!

I'm half Asian and in that part of my family marriages are more or less arranged and there are definitely different expectations in regards to love, lust and butterflies in your stomach. My Dad married my Mum (German) and got disinherited whereas nowadas, my cousin married a Westerner without any eyebrows being raised. So things move on.

I lived in Asia for a long time and in Japan or China the position of a concubine still exists, in our times being a young woman who gets put up in a flat or paid for her services with small gifts and favours.

It's not so much the fact that there are prostitutes and concubines, kept women, etc. (Sorry for the generalisation.) I think the reason why the thought of our partners seeking sexual pleasures elsewhere fills us with dread and anger is because nowadays the women they do it with will not stop at the bed but want the keys to the family home. Some women are on the prowl after married men to lure them away from their heaths, from their marital bed and children. They promise them a more intense lust and love which may very well be a 'grass is greener' case but it sometimes works and the poor wife is being left alone, without the security of a stable family union to raise the kids and fend for herself.

I'm trying to say, that the men will disregards the place every woman in his life has (his Mum, his sisters, wive, relatives, maybe a mistress) and mix them according to his whim. That's the real underlying problem of marriages nowadays. Because our social hierarchies are so lax and everyone can be whatever they want, the age old system of wife and mistress does not work. As the women he cheats with believe they can be the wife and they have seen 'success' stories.

The betrayal and breach of trust is harsh, I personally feel sick at the thought of my dp cheating on me and leaving me for someone else. I've probably been brought up with the Western notion of endless love and fireworks, but I cannot help myself. If I can keep my fanjo and fingers to myself, then why can a man not do it? I personally think sex is a mind thing. Just lying on a different person while doing it, does not make you happier.

Marriage is just a commitment to another person, not a magic wand that causes you to no longer fancy others or have feelings elsewhere. If you choose to get married you need to accept that with it comes self-control.

What I do think is being mis-sold is the notion that there is only one& kind of ideal* marriage that every couple should strive for, i.e. monogamy, and a 'happy ever after' hollywood romantic bolleoux.

I think it would be much healthier if people realised that in their on personal marriage they can agree to anything that suits those two people together. People are all different, so marriages should be too.

I don't think it's necessarily wrong or impossible for people to love and care about more than one person, otherwise bigamy wouldn't work in other cultures would it? But it does. It's just our culture that dictates that monogamy is the only acceptable way, but actually it isn't always the best outcome. I know I could love more than one person, but it's not accepted in our culture is it?

Alexa you're generalising a bit and implying that it is only ever men who cheat or have affairs. Now that's another thing that is mis-sold imo!

I was wondering about arranged marriages alexa. How happy they generally are long term and whether they are more stable, and why.

I've known quite a few stable secure families where there have been more than one wife (not in this country obviously). Neither wife felt insecure or 'cheated' on as there was no deception, no lieing, no loss of mutual love and respect.

It's the notion that there is only one type of marriage that is acceptable that is wrong imo.

Depends entirely on the couple involved Orm!

Most arranged marriages I've known about have actually been more like arranged first-dates. The couple get to meet after both families have arranged this, and then it is up to the couple whether or not they think there is anything there and it is worth getting to know each other better with a view to getting married. This is how I saw it being done in arab cultures anyway, Asian cultures may be differnet.

It's just there are days when I wish someone had arranged my marriage for me They might have done a better job....